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cgrams
12-09-2008, 19:01
How many dispel dice is cheesy? Would 11 dispel dice, no scrolls be cheese?

How about 8 disp and one scroll?

What's the value of a scroll in terms of power dice? Is 4 scrolls in a game worth 8 dispel dice a turn in a game?

What number of dispel dice is good for good army comp?

How about power dice? I think any more than 8 is cheese. Especially if you have a gun/ bow line.

RavenBloodwind
12-09-2008, 19:33
Ultimately, I imagine this really goes in tactics or general discussion rather than army lists.

To the matter of your post:
Cheese is like beauty, largely in the eye of the beholder.

I don't imagine anyone will call you cheesy for taking any number of dispel scrolls or dice. As many as you can get in your points will make your dwarf opponent and your khornate demon opponents both extremely happy.

As to adequacy, it really depends on the gaming environment in which you play. If you face lots of high power-dice opponents (super casty HE, cast-spamming VC, Tzeench, etc) then one imagines 8 dispel dice is going to leave you want more.

The big issue you run in to is that you are giving up fighty character slots to get dispel dice and scrolls (in most cases). This only hurts you, not your casting-minded (or non-casting-minded) opponents.

As to power-dice and cheese. If your whole strategy is predicated on casting, then having a boatload of casting dice is important. Far be it from me to complain that someone took 17PD army if that's what they want to push. It means they have very little in the way of troops because they've heavily invested in their casting power. So be it. I then have to figure out how to neutralize their casters. It's kind of like complaining that someone took too many units of cavalry. It's just what they're pushing and it's my job to adapt to that and try not to get my head handed to me.

Little Aaad
12-09-2008, 20:54
All that is above is correct, but I'd like to add that usually a single caddy in 2k or less is usually fine anyway.

Kahadras
13-09-2008, 01:31
I don't think taking loads of DD is 'cheesy' because against many armies it's just a useless points sink. Playing against Dwarfs? You've already wasted tons of points before the games even started.

PD is a much more touchy issue IMHO. At the end of the day I don't care but certain things do annoy me such as TK/VC spam magic, the gattling Slann and other magic combos which sucks the fun out of the magic phase. If your opponant has invested the points in 17 PD then I do feel that he should get something from his investment.

Kahadras

greenskinworld
13-09-2008, 05:20
Taking enough to defend yourself isn't cheesy, it's smart. If you have extra than make sure that that last enemy spell definatly doesn't go through.

Power Dice is the same, it's not like its a gun line that wont every screw up. The morePD you role the more chance you have of rolling that miscast so it evens it's self out.

kroq'gar
13-09-2008, 05:30
Nothing wrong with taking as many dispel dice as you want. ultimately, your oppoenent will only suffer if they've a magically strong list, ergo, the DD are justified.

Putty
13-09-2008, 05:40
if cheese is bad, there wouldn't be that much on pizzas.

narrativium
13-09-2008, 09:31
It can't be automatically ruled as cheese... in my Ogre army at the moment, I've taken three Butchers and three scrolls - 5 DD and three scrolls isn't the worst I could do (that would be six scrolls) but I figure it's enough to hold back the worst of the enemy spells until the rest of my army can be nasty to my enemy. And against Khorne/Dwarfs, it's only 75 points of scrolls.

march10k
13-09-2008, 11:01
Some armies are said not to work at all without loads of magic...some are cheese fests if they load it up. I'd look at a magic-heavy TK list a lot more kindly than a magic-heavy elf list, for example, in spite of the fact that my own TK list only has two-lower level liche priests and two scrolls at 2k points...it's all a balance, I think.

The same guy who would call me a cheese-monger for taking a high priest, two priests, the casket, three scrolls, and a brooch at that points level will probably be just as likely to flame me for taking two units of chariots as core choices in addition to maxing out at three special choices. That guy would only be happy if I took nothing but a single liche and a naked tomb prince, then filled the rest of my points with skeletons toting nothing but a hand weapon...in blocks of 14. I think the system of limiting special, rare, and character choices based on points level works just fine. Anything you overload on within those limits will hurt you in another area. Even my magic-poor tomb kings army spends nearly half its points on characters and their gear. Compared to 40k, I think the cheese is fairly well in check in WFB.

Warlord Broken spear
13-09-2008, 14:45
I belive that one scroll is about 2 DD
because you can get rid of that one spell that might win the game for your opponent, but you can only use it once.