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Lennart.nevanoja
13-09-2008, 16:00
I have recently started a VC army, the problem is that i don't know what to have! there are so many this you could have so i need help with a 2250p army that i can develop as i want. the only thing i know is that i like black knights and want to have a unit of those. it is good if the army is balanced so that i can meet any army and learn how to play them

some tactics would be appreciated from you guys ageinst different armies

thanks for any help

Cheers

Dartzstrong
14-09-2008, 00:04
Blocks of infantry are a big one. Make sure to have a few necros with vanhels and TONS of Dire Wolves. Vanhels Danse Macabre is my favorite spell and I win games with sheer brute force...yes a brute force offensive vampires army. When you learn how to do it right, you don't lose anymore.

Lennart.nevanoja
14-09-2008, 10:46
could you post an army list so icould see ???


cheers

Melicia
17-09-2008, 09:24
Sorry if I've bumped this like woah much, but I have a VC army. Make sure you have lots of core units, as you can easily flank when nessacery(sp?). I would always have a corpse cart, possibly 2, at the back of the core's, so that they can easily raise more (as you probably know).

I really suggest to use Grave Guard from the specials, they really help me, and also Fell bats. Black Knights are good, also.

From the Rare unit, the Varghulf is a good option. He took out quite a few of the Skaven when I was battling with my club leader.

From Lords and Heroes, here's what I usually battle with:
Vlan Von Carstein
1 Vampire Lord, tooled up to the max; then he is really tough.
And I've just bought Mannfred, and soon to buy Konrad, but in replacement of Vlad I suggest Konrad, or Mannfred, but I have yet to play them, so it should be quite exciting getting to know their strengths.

This should give you about 2000+ points, if you have any more points left, just stick in a few more core.

Sorry if I babbled a bit of stuff you already knew, I'm just passionate when it comes to VC ;)

Unpresentable
18-09-2008, 14:40
Like a few have said, you need blocks of infantry. Combat Res and Fear are your best friend, use them well. I Find Grave Guard and skeletons work best for me.

Red_Duke
18-09-2008, 15:19
Ok, character wise: I wouldnt bother with SC's - other than the stigma you generally get constantly fielding them, the VC ones arent all that. Vampires are now the core choice really, Vamp Lord is your go-to guy for general, and id always reccommend taking a BSB.
For BSB, many people favour the Wight Lord, as he's tough, and generally with the regen banner.

Troops wise a lot depends on what kind of army you want to do really - ghouls and skeletons are reasonably equal core wise, and generally i find it comes more down what you prefer the look of (i prefer skels, as i hate the new ghoul models). Zombies make great tarpts, and since they are the only unit in the force that can now be raised, a couple of boxes really are a must-have imo. Dire wolves are less of a keeper - dire by name, dire by reputation. Corpse Cart is worthwhile, and also the ASF ability is firstly excellent in combo with the graveguard, and also at the very least sucks up another DD or two. Both addons for it are excellent, and depends more on what you want them to do.

For Specials, Grave Guard are the best by far - especially with greatweapons. Personally i like a unit of 25, with Full command and a magic banner (warbanner for instance). Many people stick the wight bsb in here with the regen banner for a really badass unit, thats nigh unkillable. Black Knights are ok - and with a character in the unit can become a fairly good medium cav unit, especially since they dont have movement penalites for difficult terrain. They do suffer somewhat against Daemons though however, as they can't break them, and can get a beating in the 2nd round of combat somewhat, and also dont raise back as easily as say Grave Guard or the core units.

Rare, both wights and varghulf are good, both expensive, and with lots of characters, and infantry, you don't really get more than 1.

Tactics wise, ive always been a big fan of the 'raise and danse' tactic, whereby you raise a unit of zombies, and van hels them into the flank or rear of a unit to tarpit it. This works best against single rank units such as knights, flesh hounds etc, where you can actually win combat due to their inability to put enough attacks back to beat your static CR. Also the Vampires first defense in dealing with shooty armies.

The above can also be potentially combined to get you 2 combats a turn for your hammer unit (fighty vamp lord in knight unit for instance), by using zombies to engage the 2nd unit so the lord and retinue can cut through another unit.

Otherwise tactics are either 'tarpitting' - where you just spam raise hordes of core (zombies are especially good at this), and then just hold the enemy up in combat. You do however then need a hammer unit to actually deal with whatever theyre tarpitting.

Red_Duke
18-09-2008, 15:30
*followed on from last post*
Or if not tarpitting then hammering - some use blood knights for this, with their numerous attacks, and ability to blend pretty much anything in the game (id even give them a chance vs greater daemons). combo charging things like varghulfs with knights can also help.

Psych has always been a mainstay for the Vamps, but with the number of units that are either fear causers, or immune etc, it has less of an impact in general than it used to have imo. Against some armies its useless (Daemons for instance). But when you can use it - outnumber + fear FTW!

Oh, and Necro's are'nt worth it these days. You're much better off with another Vamp generally, as the necro is weaker, is only ever a lvl 1, and can therefore only use 2 power dice. The only upside is the ability to pick spells. But with potentially a lvl4 vamp, plus 3 lvl2's, the chances of not getting the only spell you need (the danse, as the others are 0 and 1 on the list) is fairly likely. Necro's are cheap however, and if you're finding yourself squeezed on points can be useful to get that extra trickle of magic.

The Vamp can make an interesting offensive BSB as well, with lycos talisman, a gw or sword of might and hauberk, along with a vanilla banner, walking death, and something like infinite hatred you have static CR of +3 along with 3 S7 attacks, which works a treat against warmachines and other small units, as well as characters!

Finally: one of the most competetive builds is considered the 'Bunker' - completely magic heavy, with the vamps 'bunkered' in a core unit behind a fat unit of Grave Guard. Its effective, but a. boring, and b. wont help you develop decent tactical play. Id reccommend avoiding!

Reinnon
18-09-2008, 15:53
It really depends what kind of vampire army you want in the end. The army list has quite a few viable combos.

The most important decision is core choices. Skeletons and Ghouls each take the form of your mainstrem unit, both are about equal in terms of mathhammer. Ghouls have the advantage of poison, higher toughness, more attacks and ghoulkin. While skeletons have better combat res and higher armour. The reason why this is the most important decision is because your choice of primary core will determine what character upgrades to get.

For ghouls: speed is the most important factor. If you are going to go down the ghoul rush army a vampire with ghoulkin is pretty much a requirment. For 25 points it provides a massive boost to an entire army of ghouls. With the right magic combo and a bit of luck its possible to get first turn charges with ghouls.

For skeletons: its a slower army but much better at grinding enemies down because of the higher combat res and armour. Both ghouls and skeletons win combats by outnumbering combined with fear. For ghouls this is attained by losing combat over 3 turns and using invocation to revive the losses. While for skeletons its done through raw simple combat res.

I'm a sticker for themed armies, so i go for the ghoul route. Either way its a good idea to use mastery powers, for 15 points you can get a massive bonus to your invocation. Perticularly if you use a single core type as a theme.

Zombies: Your standard tarpit unit, best work in massive units so they can hold up important units. Don't put them in contact with elites though, as although you will have a massive amount of them you will end up losing more then you can realistically raise. Best targets are basic core choices, stuff a unit of 45 zombies in combat with a unit of 20 dwarf warriors and you can forget about the aforementioned dwarf warriors.

Also: zombies have the benefit of being able to be raised via the raise dead spell. Handy for all many of things such as fanatic drawing, frenzy misdirection, last minute missile screen and pretty much any other use of five zombies. Remember: these small units can be increased through invocation.

Another note: if your going to be using zombie i would strongly recommend the helm of commandment. WS7 zombies should not be sneezed at. Heck - WS7 skeletons and ghouls is pretty hardcore to.

For characters: the vampire lord is a solid choice for 2000 point games. I would recommend going for a magic heavy lord (master of the black arts, a mastery power and at least level three) as magic is very important for an undead army. Invocation and VDM are perhaps the two best spells in the game, and unless your going pure muscle (with say a zombie dragon or a bloodknight bus) the success of your army hinges on how well you use the magic phase.

Hero level vampires: i've not had much success with these. Compared to vampire lords and wight kings they are quite fragile, and although they might have more options then you can shake a stick at, its hard to come up with the right balance to create an effective choice. I would strongely recommend specialising the vampires to do one thing and one thing only. For example:

Vampire: Dread Knight, Walking Death, Balefire Spike, Black Periapt

This guy is just about fighting, he supports the unit he is with via his walking death power, he can store a power dice and he has a 2+ armour save. My point is that you shouldn't have a magic based vampire who can sort of fight, or a fighty character who can sometimes cast magic. In my experience it should be one or the other.

Necromancers are a choice that is too often poo pooed by vampire players. The main advantage of the humble necromancer is that they can choose their spells and their cost. For a fraction of the price of a vampire you can get a cheap level one mage who will always know the two important spells of VDM and invocation. Ok, truth be told necromancers are pretty sucky wizards, but they come with a very nice price tag. You can get 2 necromancers for the price of one vampire.

Necromancers are strictly support casters, they are there to throw around the odd invocation and a VDM. They are the best scroll caddies (105 points for a necromancer with 2 scrolls, you can't complain) and provide an reasonable platform for the book of arkham, which all vampire armies should include.

Another bonus: Corpse Carts. These guys are great. The only reason to mount a necromancer on a corpse cart is so it can join a unit, which is only important in a ghoul horde (trust me, having your corpse carts 8 inches behind the ghouls all battle is not a good use of corpse carts). In normal armies i would suggest leaving the necromancers on foot. Corpse Carts provide a decent bound spell (no one can say that ASF isn't helpful), but also come with special upgrades. The lodestone is great, but they don't stack which is a bit annoying. Unless you have alot of core choices having 2 lodestones is a bit of a waste. Balefire however works best in pairs (more then two corpse carts in 2000 points is a waste i feel). The range of their disruption is pretty awesome, esp in a ghoul horde (where they will be close to the enemy quickly).

Finally: Wight Kings. These guys are a better value for money then vampires in my honest opinion. They are cheaper and more importantly tougher then hero level vampires. Its possible to make a fairly effective fighting wight king that also acts as a battle standard bearer for 175 points, and what you get is a great fighter who is tough as nails. This is the combo i use:

Wight King: Barded Steed, BSB, sword of kings, anti ASF armour.

A good around character who can handle himself against most other hero choices and has a fairly good chance of causing instant death. Remember: these guys have 3 wounds and are toughness 5. When your on a tight points budget it might be a good idea to consider a wight king over a vampire, although a vampire could potentially be more offensive then the wight king, it can not equal the sheer defense that the three wounds and toughness 5 gives the wight king.

A fun little combo if you have the helm of commandment is the toughness 6 wight king.. which is pretty dangerous but countered by killing or locking the helmed vampire in combat.

I hope this very brief overveiw helps you out. Good luck.

rottahn
19-09-2008, 15:28
I have recently started a VC army, the problem is that i don't know what to have! there are so many this you could have so i need help with a 2250p army that i can develop as i want. the only thing i know is that i like black knights and want to have a unit of those. it is good if the army is balanced so that i can meet any army and learn how to play them

some tactics would be appreciated from you guys ageinst different armies

thanks for any help

Cheers

i hate to sound repetitive, but here goes. VC are all about the magic phase. they are made to dominate it. in 6th they could have a bunch of awesome fighters, but the vamp heroes kinda suck now. thusly, u need to use magic to your advantage. i dont know if u played in 5th edition, but 7th=5th ed, but toned down a lil(recasting magic, and skeletal steed ethereals!).

basically if u have several block of units, that are at a minimum of 25 strong, you are doing something right. outnumbering your opponent is pretty key to fear. dont even bother with units smaller than 20. youre core units should be skellies or ghouls with 20+ size before the game starts. u should also take the ability where u can add to these units, beyond their starting value. corpse carts are fun too.

stuff not to take: bats of all kinds, zombies, black coach, mounstrous mount for your lord, dire wolves

in the end you haveta decide the gameplan for your army, and what tactics you will use and like. for example you couldnt just take my armylist and win every game with it, because you dont know the nuances of the list, and the reasoning i take certain things and not others.

Tau_Pathfinder
20-09-2008, 22:17
Extra box sets of skeletons/zombies (personal preferance) to summon... and keep them necromancers alive and casting!

seaXcow
29-09-2008, 14:03
Konrad is good and all, but not as a general, because he is easily killed if something goes wrong. Since on roll of 1-3 he is frenzied and will faster then any of the infantry units and he will have to charge, he can do some damage in combat i will admit that, but not a good general of the army choice. I usually put vlad von Carstein, Konrd in a unit of grave guard.



Sorry if I've bumped this like woah much, but I have a VC army. Make sure you have lots of core units, as you can easily flank when nessacery(sp?). I would always have a corpse cart, possibly 2, at the back of the core's, so that they can easily raise more (as you probably know).

I really suggest to use Grave Guard from the specials, they really help me, and also Fell bats. Black Knights are good, also.

From the Rare unit, the Varghulf is a good option. He took out quite a few of the Skaven when I was battling with my club leader.

From Lords and Heroes, here's what I usually battle with:
Vlan Von Carstein
1 Vampire Lord, tooled up to the max; then he is really tough.
And I've just bought Mannfred, and soon to buy Konrad, but in replacement of Vlad I suggest Konrad, or Mannfred, but I have yet to play them, so it should be quite exciting getting to know their strengths.

This should give you about 2000+ points, if you have any more points left, just stick in a few more core.

Sorry if I babbled a bit of stuff you already knew, I'm just passionate when it comes to VC ;)