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View Full Version : Wight King, Black Orc - BSB's and rules



knightime98
15-09-2008, 01:15
It seems to me that there is a rules conflict here.. Imagine that... In any event, here is my quandry which I am sure has be addressed and redressed several times. However, for my sake - I'm looking to make sense out of this..

I see that a Black Orc BSB has the Armed to the Teef rule. Now, if he has a magic standard - can he then also use his Great Weapon??? big surprise question there right....

Furthermore, most BSB's can only use regular equipment..

Here's one more for you.. A Wight King who is a BSB also has a Wight Blade and a shield as regular equipment... Does the Wight King get to use all this stuff. Where does the 3rd arm/hand come into play. A Mounted Barded Wight King BSB with Heavy Armor, Shield, and Magic Banner gives him a 2+ Armor Save... Since, when did all this change???? Why did GW not make the same changes for earlier 7th Edition armies (i.e. Empire - the first 7th edition army)...

Am I the only one that sees these inconsistencies ????

Give your two cents on this for what it's worth...

Edit - I also see that the Wight king can swap his shield for additional hand weapon... Which seems to support the banner being pasted on the back as a stick and not having to be held by an arm/hand....

Condottiere
15-09-2008, 02:11
IIRC HE BSBs can equip themselves similarly.

Shimmergloom
16-09-2008, 02:54
Yes black orcs can use their great weapons or two choppas when they are bsbs. Most 7th books are letting their bsbs take any extra equipment they want, except empire and non-black orc(who still can't take shields) greenskins.

Braad
16-09-2008, 07:25
I think the reason being that often BSB with a very expensive banner (what they are for, you could think, since there are banners that are made so pricey only the BSB can carry them) are killed of very easy since they nearly don't have any defences.
Also, a Black Orc BSB on boar with heavy armour has a 3+ AS, so I don't see the AS of the Wight King as that rediculous...

Though one thing that springs to mind, since a great weapon is a 2-handed weapon, and the rules say somewhere that he needs two hands and a shield should be slung behind his back and has no effect, you could also think that the banner maybe has to be put down to free up both hands, and has no effect... But that is a bit of wild thinking...

Gorbad Ironclaw
16-09-2008, 08:24
And no where in the rules. Really, it's only GW doing what they should have done a long time ago, making BSBs into a good choice.

Before they were too restricted in equipment meaning they were usually underpowered and too easily killed, now at least they have the option of still carrying a magic banner and having decent defence.

Gazak Blacktoof
16-09-2008, 11:37
The restirction on BSB equipment is due to the way the rules are worded in individual army books and impacts the model at the weapon selection stage rather than "in-game".

A black orc without a magic weapon is free to use the armed to the teeth rule and a BSB that can select equipment such as a shield or great weapon is free to use those. Older army books prevent BSBs from selecting equipment, the newer ones don't.

Like Gorbad said, BSBs are finally becoming what they should have always been- improvements over a normal hero instead of liability.

EvC
16-09-2008, 11:59
If only GW had the balls to just release an errata saying "all army standard bearers may be armed with the same mundane equipment as a regular version of the hero". How hard is that..?

Gazak Blacktoof
16-09-2008, 12:20
Not that hard.

Now that I've got the dark elf book I'll let anbody playing me take mundane equipment for their BSBs. We know that the change is coming might as well level the playing field now rather than forcing people to wait 5 years for a new army book.

Braad
16-09-2008, 13:08
Come to think of it... One of my bosses (stole him from 40K) has a big back banner. Can be a BSB and no hands required!
That solves the esthetical part.

SolarHammer
16-09-2008, 20:38
To make them truly viable, BSBs should have access to their regular allotment of magical items as well as a magic banner.

It's silly to think of his general equipping him with a magically enchanted, glorious, blessed standard and then forcing him to leave his magic sword or shield at home.

EvC
16-09-2008, 21:23
But they already can! Well, if you're a Daemon player. After all, they need even more tricks on their characters...

Crazyirishman
17-09-2008, 01:53
Banners don't have to be strapped to the bearers back, though they can be. Now, I'm no history buff, but I would imagine the standard bearers (army and unit bearers alike) could just plant the banner in the ground when they're fighting. We were trained to do that with our guidons in the military. For those of you who are not ex-military, guidons are just smaller versions of banners, but serve pretty much the same purpose, though they are only carried now for cerimonial purposes. This acutally translates well to Warhmmer. If a unit breaks, they just leave the banner sitting there for the enemy to capture. The battle standard bearer, as a hero of the army, would probablly be more mindful of leaving his banner behind, hence why you have to kill him in order to caputure his standard (I think that's right, but don't quote me on it). With calvary units, I'd imagine they could have a banner holder in their mount's saddle, freeing up the hands to fight, but it drops out if they spur their mounts and run for the hills.

Arnizipal
17-09-2008, 10:54
The battle standard bearer, as a hero of the army, would probablly be more mindful of leaving his banner behind, hence why you have to kill him in order to caputure his standard (I think that's right, but don't quote me on it).
Not anymore under the current rules. They can be captured like normal standards.

Shamfrit
17-09-2008, 11:23
I don't think that was a rules interpretation Arni, more so a 'how it's done in real life' explanation of why a Battle Standard can wear full plate mail, ride a horse, carry a lance and a shield and a very heavy and large banner all at the same time.

Gazak Blacktoof
17-09-2008, 11:27
There was a bit of a stab at relating it to the rules and Crazyirishman rightly said "don't quote me on it".