PDA

View Full Version : Thousand Sons Terminators (Complete entry -33pts each)



Xandros
16-09-2008, 20:07
I'm writing up a Thousand Sons Codex, and here are the terminators! However, nice though they seem I worry if they'll be really useful, having less firepower than normal TS and largely unable to fight big, nasty things. Though individually well armed, psychic powers can't compete with assault cannons.

Note the option for making a squad completely made up of sorcerers, included largely because I've been fond of this option in the past.

They're priced like they are because of slow and purposeful and limited options.


#Elite:Thousand Sons Terminators
__________________________________________________ __________________________

Terminator Sorcerer
50pts WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv2+/4++

Thousand Sons Terminator
33pts WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv2+/4++

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Size: 1 Sorcerer and 2-9 Terminators in any combination of Sorcerers and Thousand Sons

Wargear (All): Terminator Armour and Twin-linked Bolter
Wargear (Sorcerer): Force Weapon
Wargear (Thousand Sons): Power Weapon
Rules: Mark of Tzeentch, Invulnerable save 4+, Inferno Bolts, Fearless,
The Sorcerer Commands, Slow and Purposeful (Thousand Sons only)

Each Sorcerer must pick a single psychic power from the following list.
Doombolt - 10pts
Bolt of Change - 25pts
Warptime - 25pts
Wind of Chaos - 30pts
Gift of Chaos - 30pts¨

Each Sorcerer may take one of the following:
Replace all weaponry with a pair of Lightning Claws - Free
Replace Twinlinked Bolter with a Power Fist - +15pts
Replace Twinlinked Bolter with a Combi-Weapon at - +5pts

Jackmojo
16-09-2008, 23:21
I would think they ought to have a minimum of at least a single sorceror, as the normal entry does.

Jack

Ardansk
17-09-2008, 08:36
i think they should cost more points and have a few diff options i.e. powerfists instead of weapons, normal chaos terms are what 30 each? so if they have inferno bolts and a 4+ ward they'd need to be like 10 points more at least as normal thousand sons are 8 points more than a normal chaos marine but with less options so it's a bit of a toss up but having a unit of terms with ap3 guns and 4+ invulnerable would be disgusting.

daemonkin
17-09-2008, 13:07
Better than they used to be with 2 wound 2+/5+ walking bolters of doom!

I am thinking of building an Apoc sheet for a Dust Wing force. Like some of your ideas but agree that minimum should be 1 sorceror to provide focus to the unit.

D.

=Angel=
17-09-2008, 20:43
I'd lower the points for the sorcerer. Force weapon should cost about the same as a plasma pistol- its basically a powerweapon because anything worth instant-death-ifying has eternal warrior these days. And when you do get a chance to use it, it may kill you.

Thus they are basically vet sarges with close combat plasma pistols. They then have the option to take the squad's only heavy weapon, a psychic power (which again may kill them) and pay through the nose for this too.

Jackmojo
18-09-2008, 07:26
I'd lower the points for the sorcerer. Force weapon should cost about the same as a plasma pistol- its basically a powerweapon because anything worth instant-death-ifying has eternal warrior these days. And when you do get a chance to use it, it may kill you.



It would be tough to lower them much, he is already only charging them 5 points the upgrade to terminator armour and twin linked bolter...yeah now that I notice that, I'm gonna go ahead and say thats way to cheap too, for both of them as +10 points for power weapon + terminator armour + twinlinked bolt gun also feels too cheap as well on the basic Thousand Sons.

So on second look I'd say it all seems a bit under costed to me, bot not paricularly broken otherwise.

I'd probably look at 75 per sorceror and 38-40 per Thousand Son and see how that runs in playtest...

Jack

Orthodox
21-09-2008, 04:01
he is already only charging them 5 points the upgrade to terminator armour and twin linked bolter...
The Chaos book costs shouldn't apply to a stand-alone book.

I want to know why you are basing them on the current codex. Is this the only thread so far?

Xandros
21-09-2008, 04:44
Thanks for the replies!

I'd wholly agree with jackmojo and daemonkin that there should be a minimum of one sorcerer. This is more of an oversight than a deliberate omission.

On the pricing of Thousand Sons, it is not something I've decided on a whim. After doing theoretical comparisons in a number of scenarios I decided 33 points was necessary to make them truly desirable. Remember: If they charge they're always at I1, meaning they're more defensive than most terminators. In terms of toughness they're worse off against MC's and PW's having 43% less wounds than a power armour Thousand Son and the same save. They only, hardly, win through because of being better against no retreat.

Consider it's a 10-point upgrade to a Thousand Son compared to 15 points for a Chaos marine, slow and purposeful being a serious disadvantadge for terminators. Consider they need a sorcerer present. Their firepower doesn't compare well to loyalist terminators and a unit costs roughly the same. Consider that they don't benefit from a Crux Terminatus save.

These things considered, expensive is not the way to go. Actually I think I'll reduce the sorcerer by 5 points. I desire to drop Thousand Sons to 30 points for the above reasons, but I fear that would be a tad much.

Now, how on earth do I word the entry to make 1 sorcerer minimum?

Orthodox
21-09-2008, 06:28
Hey, pay attention to me.

Why are you using the current codex as a template? 4++ and inferno bolts were expediencies that you don't need to put up with.

The codex underemphasises the sorcerors. They drive the legion and the rubrics should be suitably subordinate in the list. Rubrics should be inexpensive and not overpowered, the sorcerors can get more stuff, like scout.

Can you drop the rubric save altogether, and leave them with crux saves? Invulnerable saves are overvalued outside of combat-geared independent characters. You can swap it for scout, which is a great idea.

Xandros
21-09-2008, 07:34
Sorry! I didn't think the question was directed at me :cries:

The reason I use the current codex as basis is because I really like those rules. It makes sense to me that disembodied marines would get a 4++ and that the Thousand Sons' every weapon would be enhanced with sorcery. I think normal Aspiring Sorcerers do stand out properly, but then I find Terminator Sorcerers don't as much, offering less (if any) of an upgrade in all respects.

PS: Could maybe create new upgrades based on the Book of Tzeentch.

Xandros
06-10-2008, 14:41
I have updated the entry, making one sorcerer minimum and costing sorcerers at 50 pts.
I can't provide much justification for the latter change, but I nevertheless feel it's right because they're bad otherwise.

I'd like to hear some intelligent gripes.