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blackcherry
16-09-2008, 20:19
Reading the new Space Marines codex, I came across a reference to the flame falcons, a chapter, Ive only heard of before in an old white dwarf article 'cursed foundings'.

Of the background in the article and the codex, there isn't much of it, it merely describing how they were excommunicated and destroyed upon an extreme mutation developing, which caused them to continually sprout flame and smoke with no ill effect upon themselves.

The army has peaked my interest and I've been thinking of starting an army using the black templar or chaos marines with a mark of Tzeench rules. I just want to know if there is any additional background to the chapter beyond what I have stated. Things along the lines of conflicts they engaged in, codex organisation, notable members before their fall from grace, preferred battlefield tactics and the gene seed and chapter formation would be ideal things to learn about.

Or do i happen to be lucky in that they are a blank sheet chapter in which I can create my own fluff?

sydbridges
16-09-2008, 21:15
Reading the new Space Marines codex, I came across a reference to the flame falcons, a chapter, Ive only heard of before in an old white dwarf article 'cursed foundings'.

Of the background in the article and the codex, there isn't much of it, it merely describing how they were excommunicated and destroyed upon an extreme mutation developing, which caused them to continually sprout flame and smoke with no ill effect upon themselves.

The army has peaked my interest and I've been thinking of starting an army using the black templar or chaos marines with a mark of Tzeench rules. I just want to know if there is any additional background to the chapter beyond what I have stated. Things along the lines of conflicts they engaged in, codex organisation, notable members before their fall from grace, preferred battlefield tactics and the gene seed and chapter formation would be ideal things to learn about.

Or do i happen to be lucky in that they are a blank sheet chapter in which I can create my own fluff?

IIRC, their Chapter history was pretty short, and reads something like this:

Chapter is founded
Chapter is sent on very first mission. Member of chapter burst into flames. Chapter Master declares this a blessing of the Emperor. Watching member of Inquisition thinks otherwise.
Chapter is destroyed

EDIT - Looking at the UK site, it wasn't the very first mission. It was a mission within a century of their creation, though. They apparently fought a few times against orks and eldar before the whole "we's on fire 'cause the emperor loves us" flaw showed up.

Charax
16-09-2008, 22:14
Funnily enough I was thinking about the Falcons this morning. I made an Inquisitor-scale Flame Falcons abomination a while back and while digging up background on them I found...almost nothing. No chapter badge, no colourscheme, just a few short mentions here and there.

and I'm fairly sure it was a whole company of marines that burst into flames, not just the odd marine :)

Koryphaus
17-09-2008, 06:22
It was the entire 1st Co, then followed by the rest of the chapter.

Imperialis_Dominatus
17-09-2008, 07:44
I just got this vision of a bunch of Flame Falcons with fire bursting through every orifice in their armor.

That's badass.

Go for it. Do what you want, they're Cursed Founding and Excommunicate, they could be organized however you want them to be. Plus I think the Mark of Tzeentch would be a good fit for them.

Koryphaus
17-09-2008, 10:00
I think the the Flame Falcons benefit from the same saving throw as models with the mark of Tzeentch (though in the Flame Falcon's case it is a 5+ Cover save, as opposed to the Tzeentch Icon's 5++ Invulnerable).

Triszin The Wrath God
17-09-2008, 17:24
wasnt the flame falcons that became the legion of the damned? or is this just a rumor?
it would make sense, if a mutation in there geneseed caused them to sprout flame and smoke they would essential be very difficult to kill because they are alreay immune to fire, which could then say that they are extremely resislent to lasers, plasma, flamers, meltas ei....

still total kick ****, its like a army of super sayian marines !

Leftenant Gashrog
17-09-2008, 18:04
wasnt the flame falcons that became the legion of the damned? or is this just a rumor?


No it was the Fire Hawks who are currently rumoured to have become the Legion of the Damned (though the original LotD IA article plainly stated that they were the Fire Hawks, specifically the marines from the cruiser Absolute, the only Fire Hawk vessel not to be destroyed in the warp.)

Clockwork-Knight
17-09-2008, 18:12
In the older editions, the Flame Falcons (or a marine chapter with some name about a bird on fire) did indeed become the legion of the damned. However, glimpses from the newest Marines-codex that will come shows that in 5th edition, the Legion of the Damned being formerly Flame Falcons to be only a rumor anymore.

I guess GW did recognize that some mysteries should have stayed as mysteries.

Charax
17-09-2008, 18:17
I'm pretty sure the Legion of the Damned used to be the Fire Hawks, not the Flame Falcons

Leftenant Gashrog
17-09-2008, 18:23
yup, definately Fire Hawks (who were also a 21st Founding Chapter)
http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/cursed/2/

x-esiv-4c
17-09-2008, 18:33
Wonder if the Flame Falcons can take transports :)

Triszin The Wrath God
17-09-2008, 19:23
it would be interesting to see these minis if they were produced by Gw,

another widget.
..
what would be interesting to see if the flame falcons and the fire hawks have nearly the same geneseed...

sydbridges
17-09-2008, 19:52
it would be interesting to see these minis if they were produced by Gw,

another widget.
..
what would be interesting to see if the flame falcons and the fire hawks have nearly the same geneseed...

They were both 21st (cursed) founding legions, so who knows? At one point I believe the rumor was that the AdMech screwed around with the legions' geneseed to try and make new versions of the first founding chapters without their geneseed flaws, although the only one of them that seems to provide evidence that flaws were being fixed is the Lamenters, who swapped out the Blood Angel "we's vampires" problem for their new "if we bought lottery tickets, after the drawing, it would turn out that the people with our ticket number now owed the Imperium a large sum of money" flaw (they have atrocious luck).

So, if the AdMech mucked around with all the chapters' geneseed, maybe they mucked up the Flame Falcons and the Fire Hawks similarly.

Triszin The Wrath God
17-09-2008, 20:43
anyone knwo anything specific like chapter colors? im currently drawing up what i think one would look like and i made the chapter icon and all i need now id there colors, are there colors black?

Messiah
17-09-2008, 22:04
Flame Falcons could probably use LoTD rules.
theres very little fluff on the unfortunately.

Triszin The Wrath God
17-09-2008, 23:20
true i found it a but odd and funny that on the GW's main site they have the flame falcons being represented as LotD minis.

Koryphaus
18-09-2008, 00:18
Wonder if the Flame Falcons can take transports :)

If you are using the Chaos codex to represent them, then yes they can. If you are using the Chapter Approved rules, then no..

blackcherry
18-09-2008, 18:09
What can I say except thank for the help there. I think I may have them as an elite force, as I imagine very few of the chapter exists now. Even with a total extermination of the chapter some survive. Though I am trying to figure what would be best, the survivors becoming embittered towards the imperium (so tzeench) or if they just become penitent and no longer care for their own safety(black templars with a certain vow).

Also as a side note, weren't the chapters of the 21st founding thought to have been created primarily from a mix of Dark angels and Ultramarines gene seed, with the hope that the purity of the ultramarines may eliminate those 'deviant' traits the dark angels possess?

On a side note,has anyone noticed how in the new dex the eradication of the relictors, my favorite 'lets frick around with the weapons of chaos for the good of the imperium' chapter has yet to be attacked by the inquisition? But then the time line has been rolled back to just before the Eye of Terror campaign, so that may be why.

Triszin The Wrath God
18-09-2008, 19:33
i wouldnt say that they went chaos, i would say that they became what the celestial lions, did, the celestial lions were for the imperium but against the inqusition because of the way they acted and how they thought and as a result of having public outcrys against them, during the armageddon campaigns all of there apoethcary's were "snipershoted" by orcs. the inqsition then labeled them renegade but they still fight for the imperium and will only diffend them selves agaisnt the imperium but im guessing that they will openly attack the inquistion ships.

so with that being said i thin k it would be cool to see the flame falcons treated like the celestial lions were there are still some left and still fight for the imperium.


now part of me wants to create a mismatch chapter of renegade loyal marines, celestial lions with flame falcons, with all the rest...

Messiah
18-09-2008, 22:10
I love the celestial lions. Do it.

Leftenant Gashrog
19-09-2008, 00:16
i wouldnt say that they went chaos, i would say that they became what the celestial lions, did, the celestial lions were for the imperium but against the inqusition because of the way they acted and how they thought and as a result of having public outcrys against them, during the armageddon campaigns all of there apoethcary's were "snipershoted" by orcs. the inqsition then labeled them renegade but they still fight for the imperium and will only diffend them selves agaisnt the imperium but im guessing that they will openly attack the inquistion ships.


er.. whats your source for the Celestial Lions being labelled as renegades?