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Lord Dan
17-09-2008, 01:34
Just a few questions:

Rending Stars/ Black Lotus
Can an assassin take rending stars with black lotus? It says: "Unless otherwise stated, these are not magic items." Rending stars do not otherwise state, making them mundane weapons. Under the toxins section, it reads: "All of a model's non-magic weapons may be coated with one type of toxin." I ask this question only because if we agree upon "yes" it means you could do the same with manbane, which has lead to some serious arguing in the past.

Ring of Hotek/ Focus Familiar
What if you have a wizard casting within 12 inches of a friendly character with the ring of Hotek, however the wizard is using a Focus Familiar? For example, say the wizard is 8 inches away. She uses the focus familiar to push her line of sight 6 inches away from her, putting her casting point 14" away from the character with the ring of Hotek. What happens?

Venom Sword
"Magic weapon. Any model that takes a wound from the venom sword (after saves, etc.) must roll equal to or under its toughness on 2D6 or automatically lose all remaining wounds."

I assume this means you cannot force an enemy to roll the toughness test multiple times in a combat, as it does not say: "...per wound." However it also fails to mention whether or not an enemy has to test multiple times in a battle. For instance, say you wound a dragon, who passes the test. He has technically met the criteria of the sword, as he "took a wound" and "took the test." The sword does not clarify if further wounds implicate further tests. Thoughts?

Lifetaker
Simple question here- can a Sorceress take the Lifetaker?

Banner of Murder
Do characters who join a unit with the banner of murder gain the armour piercing rule? It specifies in under the rules for the banner of hag graef that "All models in the unit...gain the always strike first rule", however there is no such specification under the banner of murder. It simply states "the unit..."

Eternal Hatred
Does a chariot count as a mount for purposes of determining whether or not they are affected by hatred?

Tarax
17-09-2008, 09:23
Just a few questions:?

I'll try to answer them as best as possible.


Rending Stars/ Black Lotus
Can an assassin take rending stars with black lotus? It says: "Unless otherwise stated, these are not magic items." Rending stars do not otherwise state, making them mundane weapons. Under the toxins section, it reads: "All of a model's non-magic weapons may be coated with one type of toxin." I ask this question only because if we agree upon "yes" it means you could do the same with manbane, which has lead to some serious arguing in the past.?

I think poisons are intended to be used on close combat weapons, although it doesn't say that.
But I can imagine poisoning your missile weapons, including a repeater crossbow. Now, what would the effect of the poison be?
-Manbane can be seen as used in close combat rather than on ranged attacks. Also, the description of the rending stars says you use the S of the user and Manbane does not explicit say you increase the S of the user. So, that would be a NO.
-Black Lotus can easily be used on missile weapons without argument. YES.
-Dark Venom, obviously NO.
But I stay with my first observation that it's not intended to be used on ranged weapons.


Ring of Hotek/ Focus Familiar
What if you have a wizard casting within 12 inches of a friendly character with the ring of Hotek, however the wizard is using a Focus Familiar? For example, say the wizard is 8 inches away. She uses the focus familiar to push her line of sight 6 inches away from her, putting her casting point 14" away from the character with the ring of Hotek. What happens??

The caster is still within 12" of the wearer, so this would take precedence.


Venom Sword
"Magic weapon. Any model that takes a wound from the venom sword (after saves, etc.) must roll equal to or under its toughness on 2D6 or automatically lose all remaining wounds."

I assume this means you cannot force an enemy to roll the toughness test multiple times in a combat, as it does not say: "...per wound." However it also fails to mention whether or not an enemy has to test multiple times in a battle. For instance, say you wound a dragon, who passes the test. He has technically met the criteria of the sword, as he "took a wound" and "took the test." The sword does not clarify if further wounds implicate further tests. Thoughts??

It is for every wound the target takes from the sword. So, if you cause 2 unsaved wound, the test is taken 2 times. If on a later occasion the target takes another unsaved wound, you take another test.


Lifetaker
Simple question here- can a Sorceress take the Lifetaker??

No, it is a repeater crossbow and she does not have that option in her entry.
Equally, she can not take the Executioner's Axe.


Banner of Murder
Do characters who join a unit with the banner of murder gain the armour piercing rule? It specifies in under the rules for the banner of hag graef that "All models in the unit...gain the always strike first rule", however there is no such specification under the banner of murder. It simply states "the unit..."?

Yes, the character also gets the rule as he is part of the unit as soon as he joins it.


Eternal Hatred
Does a chariot count as a mount for purposes of determining whether or not they are affected by hatred?

The creatures pulling a chariot are affected. The chariot itself is not. So, no re-roll in deciding the number of hits. ;)

Hope this all helps.

Jerrus
17-09-2008, 09:54
No, it is a repeater crossbow and she does not have that option in her entry.
Equally, she can not take the Executioner's Axe.

Why not the Executioner's Axe? iirc it doesn't say that it is a GW.

Arnizipal
17-09-2008, 10:37
I think poisons are intended to be used on close combat weapons, although it doesn't say that.
But I can imagine poisoning your missile weapons, including a repeater crossbow. Now, what would the effect of the poison be?
-Manbane can be seen as used in close combat rather than on ranged attacks. Also, the description of the rending stars says you use the S of the user and Manbane does not explicit say you increase the S of the user. So, that would be a NO.
-Black Lotus can easily be used on missile weapons without argument. YES.
-Dark Venom, obviously NO.
But I stay with my first observation that it's not intended to be used on ranged weapons.
The armybook doesn't specifically state that ranged weapons aren't poisoned if you pay the points for a poison. It opens up all kinds of discussion on auto destroying heavy chariots with Manbane and Rending Stars, but I see nothing that forbids this combo.

Of course, in the case of Dark Venom it doesn't matter



The caster is still within 12" of the wearer, so this would take precedence.
Doesn't the Ring of Hotek only affect spellcasters who try to cast spells AT units with 12" ?



It is for every wound the target takes from the sword. So, if you cause 2 unsaved wound, the test is taken 2 times. If on a later occasion the target takes another unsaved wound, you take another test.

Indeed. If you take two wounds, you take "a wound" two times.
The test is reset each time.



No, it is a repeater crossbow and she does not have that option in her entry.
Equally, she can not take the Executioner's Axe.

Unlike armour there is no restriction on magic weapons. Everybody can take them. You can deck out you mages with all sorts of fancy magical weapons (be they ranged or close combat). It won't be very effective most of the time, but you are free to do so.



Yes, the character also gets the rule as he is part of the unit as soon as he joins it.
Agreed. Take a look at the section in the rulebook that details characters joining units.



The creatures pulling a chariot are affected. The chariot itself is not. So, no re-roll in deciding the number of hits. ;)
Indeed. Besides, as Impact Hits are calculated before close combat begins, I don't think they would get a re-roll anyway.

Gazak Blacktoof
17-09-2008, 11:14
Just a few questions:

Rending Stars/ Black Lotus
Can an assassin take rending stars with black lotus? It says: "Unless otherwise stated, these are not magic items." Rending stars do not otherwise state, making them mundane weapons. Under the toxins section, it reads: "All of a model's non-magic weapons may be coated with one type of toxin." I ask this question only because if we agree upon "yes" it means you could do the same with manbane, which has lead to some serious arguing in the past.

The poisons* state they affect all of the model's non-magic weapons so yes you can poison the rending stars. I think that manbane probably does boost strength before the rending stars because manbane only considers the model's strength relative to the target's toughness.


*The basic version of poison using the rules from the BRB only coats the assassin's hand weapons and handbow per the rules on page 95.

Ring of Hotek/ Focus Familiar
What if you have a wizard casting within 12 inches of a friendly character with the ring of Hotek, however the wizard is using a Focus Familiar? For example, say the wizard is 8 inches away. She uses the focus familiar to push her line of sight 6 inches away from her, putting her casting point 14" away from the character with the ring of Hotek. What happens?

The rules for the focus familiar state it is used for determining her position when determining range and line of sight for spells. The consensus seems to be that this is only for measuring the range of the spell and not any other ranges.

Venom Sword
"Magic weapon. Any model that takes a wound from the venom sword (after saves, etc.) must roll equal to or under its toughness on 2D6 or automatically lose all remaining wounds."

I assume this means you cannot force an enemy to roll the toughness test multiple times in a combat, as it does not say: "...per wound." However it also fails to mention whether or not an enemy has to test multiple times in a battle. For instance, say you wound a dragon, who passes the test. He has technically met the criteria of the sword, as he "took a wound" and "took the test." The sword does not clarify if further wounds implicate further tests. Thoughts?

Yes, a test is taken for each wound inflicted.

Lifetaker
Simple question here- can a Sorceress take the Lifetaker?

As Arnizipal said, only armours have the restriction placed on them that you must be able to choose a mundane equivalent before you can take a magic item of that type. A sorceress may take the Lifetaker.

Banner of Murder
Do characters who join a unit with the banner of murder gain the armour piercing rule? It specifies in under the rules for the banner of hag graef that "All models in the unit...gain the always strike first rule", however there is no such specification under the banner of murder. It simply states "the unit..."

The character is now part of the unit- they derive the same benefits as any other model in the unit. A character in a unit with the banner of murder will count all their attacks as armour piercing.

Eternal Hatred
Does a chariot count as a mount for purposes of determining whether or not they are affected by hatred?

Yes, a chariot is a mount and will benefit from hatred. Any steeds or crew will benefit from hatred or frenzy if the character has those rules. A chariot never makes any rolls "to hit" nor does it have a weaponskill with which to make attacks so the contraption itself derives no benefit from either rule. Note that a cold one chariot for dark elves has the eternal hatred rule anyway so the transference of the rule is unimportant.


Answers in blue.


I had one question of my own to which I think I know the answer, but I'll post it anyway.

Does a character with the hydra's teeth placed in a unit with the banner of murder benefit from armour piercing attacks when using the hydra's teeth?

I believe it does, because the weapon is simply a thrown weapon with a rather odd way of resolving its attacks, but I'd be interested to hear somebody else's opinion.

Atherus Shadowstorm
17-09-2008, 15:31
Does a character with the hydra's teeth placed in a unit with the banner of murder benefit from armour piercing attacks when using the hydra's teeth?

Id have to agree with you i think it does as well.
Imo its fairly clear, the unit gains armor piercing so all the units attacks gain armor peircing regardless so what weapon the unit is attacking with.


@ the Op all the qs are fairly clear cut from the above answers, only thing i want to add is that both the rending stars+ Manbane and Focus fimiliars + RoH are both unclear enough that they're on the Direwolf Faq list thats just been submitted to GW, so hopefully well get some official clarification on these soon.

theunwantedbeing
17-09-2008, 15:38
Rending stars can be coated in poison.(which means manbane can be on them, to make them st7 vs t5 things)

The focus familiar can put the mage outside the range of the ring of hotek.

1 roll for the venom sword.

Yes a mage can take the lifetaker, the mundane requirement is only for armour.

Yes, character's in the unit do.

Chariots are mounts.

FigureFour
17-09-2008, 18:45
Rending stars can be coated in poison.(which means manbane can be on them, to make them st7 vs t5 things)
I think it's debatible weather Manbane and the +1S from rending stars should stack at all, but it CERTANLY can't give you S7. Manbane clearly states that S6 is as high as it can go unless you would be S7 without Manbane.

Edit: I know it's not official but Gave Thorpe commented on the matter.

It is not possible to get Strength 7 with Manbane. The throwing stars add +1 to the S of the model and then the Manbane is a bonus on top of this (just as ordinary poison would be) - it clearly states Strength is increased to a maximum of 6.

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/dark-elves-qa-on-the-rules

You can check out that url if you're interested in more of Gav's comments on the DE book.

Gazak Blacktoof
17-09-2008, 19:12
I have to say I now agree with that, I was having a think about this and in the case of a normal weapon with a fixed strength its based on the weapon's strength- the weapon's strength in this case is (as user +1). So manbane wont be any use in combination with rending stars unless the assassin's strength has been reduced.

EDIT: Excellent link FigureFour. I knew that Gav had a blog but I hadn't been checking up on it.

Lord Dan
17-09-2008, 20:20
Well, correction. Manbane is of use to potentially bring the S of the attack up to 6. Without it, the S caps at 5 (user+1).

Here's another one:
Cold One knight champion with Pearl of Infinite Bleakness. Do the Cold Ones still roll for stupidity?

Gazak Blacktoof
17-09-2008, 20:46
Clearly my brain isn't in simple addition mode.

++++++++

Ah, that would be a 6th edition question.;) ITP no longer affects stupidity, check out your BRB.

Lord Dan
17-09-2008, 22:47
My brain isn't in simple edition change mode. I still don't own a copy of the new rulebook, as I grew up playing in gaming groups and at tournaments. The people there simply informed me of the changes in the new book, so generally speaking all was well. It's evident, however, from small technical details such as this, that I should really get my hands on a copy.

ussa
30-09-2008, 17:24
Sorry, i cannot post a new discussion so must borrow this topic for discussion.

My question is unbreakable and character, and I knew that character cannot join a unit which have unbreakable.
(if that character do not have unbreakable)
So i cannot let my hero join Black Guard if upgrated a black guard to become Kouran.
Is it correct?