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Whitehorn
17-09-2008, 09:41
I'm having some serious issues with Morale.

Animosity I can just about deal with.
But fear, terror... panic. It's a huge flaw in our army.

I can be careful with deployment, unit sizes and logistics to avoid most panic issues, but fear and terror really impair my strategy.

Failed charges, fleeing from fear, mass fleeing from Terror.

I had 3 wraiths literally control and tear through my flank. They avoided my LOS so I couldn't charge. My magic was matched/countered and I couldn't risk throwing out a solo character for an entire turn before a charge due to enemy magic / banshee etc.

I am going to be facing a dragon tonight and while I'm happy to ignore/bait/feed it, I anticipate a huge chunk of my forces simply running away :P

Avian
17-09-2008, 09:48
If you would describe what you have in your list, it is easier to give specific advice. :)

Arnizipal
17-09-2008, 10:15
Try equiping a character with the Horn of Urgok.

Whitehorn
17-09-2008, 10:25
Try equiping a character with the Horn of Urgok.

One idea for sure. I thin I'll make this a certainty as I've not tried it before.

I'm looking at a Black Orc lord simply for Ld 9 (then 10).

My usual set up is 2x25 boys. Sometimes 1 as big uns or a BSB to take the rank=dispel dice spirit totem.

2x25 night goblins goblins.
1/2x20+ short bow night goblins for flanks.
Above usually with fanatics.

2x7 Spider riders with short bows.

2 pump wagons, 2 chariots.
1 (soon 2) spear chukkas.

Optional:
7 boar boys
1-3 trolls

Hero choices vary a lot. I tend to take what I have nice models for:
Orc shaman
Black Orc boss/warboss
Golin boss/warboss - usually suicide
Goblin hero

Braad
17-09-2008, 11:25
The range of the fanatics is larger then the range of terror. Of course, not usefull if they charge and you flee, but hey, its something!

Also, savage boar boyz are ItP, as are squig hoppers.
And the hoppers can also charge in any direction if they roll high enough. Could be very annoying for annoying stuff on your flank.

The only main problem of course here is the ethereal stuff... And if your magic is countered, that mainly leaves bosses with magic axes...
Instead of a suicide boss, try equipping it with some big magic axe and throw it at those blasted wraiths!

Or, the bloodaxe gives frenzy, I believe, but instead of one it gives +D6 attacks. Do note however, if your model is frenzied, its also ItP. I haven't thought about it like this before, but my guess is that it's correct...

Whitehorn
17-09-2008, 11:32
Thanks Braad, some food for thought.

I may try my boar boys as savage Orcs. It makes sense thinking about it - last game I failed a fear test twice and stood there waiting to charge..

Squig hoppers! Hmmm *eyes wallet*

Avian
17-09-2008, 11:45
Note that the Horn of Urgok does (essentially) nothing to help out with Fear and Terror tests.

Anyways, the O&G list had a lot of stuff that is immune to Fear, so I would suggest stocking up on some Squigs, Savage Orcs and Giants.

And taking more than one Shaman (and stocking up on offensive gear) could also work if you need to zap Wraiths.

T10
17-09-2008, 11:54
You can reduce the impact of Fear/Terror by investing in your own Fear/Terror/Immune to Psychology units. Also, calling on the Waaagh! at the right moment allows you to avoid taking psychology test as your units rush into combat. This is just for the 1d6 inches move, though.

You also don't take tests when in close combat (or fleeing...) so getting stuck in is a good idea.

Two large units of Trolls backed up by a Warboss on a Wyvern and a BSB on a war boar is just the thing. Snotlings aren't good fighters, but at least they are immune to psychology.

Terror is most dangerous when your opponent can expose multiple units to the effect at the same time, units that are outside range of your general, and from a position where you can't charge them back. If you have a number of chariots or some fast cav, spread these around to cover the "landing zones" your enemy might find to be most oppotune. Thes units should either operate from under the general's Ld zone, or be spread out wide enough that the enemy won't consider them to be juicy enough targets.

Terror-causers are often "cowards" in that they want to avoid getting into close combat in order to spread the scare-effect aroud as much as possible. If affecting the juciest targets means exposing them to a counter charge they might hesitate long enough for you to deal with them in some other way.


-T10

Lordmonkey
17-09-2008, 12:22
As T10 says, sometimes the best way to deal with a terror-causing gribly is to make them play chess with your units. If you have no way to stop the big flying AOE terror from landing within your lines, you can at least force them into a bad position for doing so.

Flying terror-causers are often expensive and occupy a lord choice. A countercharge from a great-weapon wielding unit will liekly give you the game... Black Orcs? :)

Kaos
17-09-2008, 19:30
Its allways hard against fear and terror. I usually take some troll and giant and perhaps some savage orcs or a savage orc boss in a chariot or such so i know that atleas i have something that can charge and not flee at once if i fail the combat and outnumbered.
Other than that its just best to accept that some parts of the battlefield is going to flee and set up a trap if that happens with your harder units ready to charge after the first units flee.

Or bring plenty of boltthrowers to shoot down big monsters flappin around, im personally thinking of bringing4 as a minimum soon because im tired of dragons and greater demons running all over the place more commonly than a goblin picking his nose..

Braad
17-09-2008, 20:04
About those wraiths... Savage orc big boss on boar, with something like a nasty axe.

Or, a cheap axe, like the common sword that gives +1 attack. That one is something like 15 points, right?
And then mount him on the ironback boar for 35 pts. Since the boar is magical, the impact hits and attacks done by this beasty should be magical too, right? Or not? I don't really know actually, but it sounds logical that a magical thing does magical attacks.

If so, that can be like D3 impact hits and 7 attacks cutting through some non-existing body.

Shimmergloom
17-09-2008, 23:20
Note that the Horn of Urgok does (essentially) nothing to help out with Fear and Terror tests.


This is true.

If you like bound spells that will do S5 hits to your character with no armor saves allowed 17% of the time, then take the horn of urgok.

As for cheap squig hoppers. I had an idea since I onlly had 6 of them before 7th edition and they were so expensive after buying just 4 more, that I would look for alternatives, like the night gobbo big boss from bfsp.

My newest idea is 10 spider-riders who you can get dirt cheap on ebay or from friends who got skull pass bu don't play greenskins. Buy a bag of small flying bases for $5. Then make spider-hoppers, but gluing them onto regular 20mm bases. Glue bfsp night gobbos onto them if you wish. You should have loads of them lying around if you play greenskins. Or keep the forest gobs on them. It's up to you.

Very cheap way to get 10 hoppers for maybe $15 instead of paying $60 for 5 blisters of metal hoppers.

Shamfrit
17-09-2008, 23:38
If you like bound spells that will do S5 hits to your character with no armor saves allowed 17% of the time, then take the horn of urgok.

I'd have to agree with you there Shimmer, although these items have an incredibly low chance of actually causing a hit, wounding etc, the Orc & Goblin ethos is that if it will happen and lose you the game, then it will. On a Lord level Black Orc I can see it being a valuable asset as you're wounded on a 4+, which is a more reliable bet than a Goblin or a 3+ for a Shaman of some description - but it then depends on your equipment set up, mount and the like. There are other ways to mitigate Leadership problems in the Greenskin list, adding yet another cause to fear a roll of a 1 is as psychologically damaging as it is physically.


As for cheap squig hoppers. I had an idea since I onlly had 6 of them before 7th edition and they were so expensive after buying just 4 more, that I would look for alternatives, like the night gobbo big boss from bfsp.

My newest idea is 10 spider-riders who you can get dirt cheap on ebay or from friends who got skull pass bu don't play greenskins. Buy a bag of small flying bases for $5. Then make spider-hoppers, but gluing them onto regular 20mm bases. Glue bfsp night gobbos onto them if you wish. You should have loads of them lying around if you play greenskins. Or keep the forest gobs on them. It's up to you.

Very cheap way to get 10 hoppers for maybe $15 instead of paying $60 for 5 blisters of metal hoppers.

I just creamed myself...slightly bend the bodies of the spiders to make them look like they're Jumping Spiders...that works very nicely with my furry brown and black spiders I'm 'Counts As'-ing for Wolf Riders at the minute. 'Wolf Spiders' - yes, I know, terrible joke :rolleyes:

Krusty
18-09-2008, 00:08
also, dont rule out squig herds...
deploy a unit of 2 herds in a line type formation on the flank, kinda away from stuff that really matters...
(unless its against a dragon) use it as a screen, kind of like a 'if you wanna charge that, you gotta go through this first'...
if they lose combat, you win.
if you lose combat, you win.
(doesnt really get much sweeter than that)
not many people enjoy deliberately taking d6 s5 hits...

Shimmergloom
18-09-2008, 00:28
Squig herds problems are they still suffer from animosity and are M4. Moving so slowly means the enemy has forever to shoot at them and try and either cut the teeth out of the unit by the time it can charge or get it to explode and only hurt you instead of hurt him at all. They can also charge them with cav or a bait unit after the herd has been thinned down a bit.

Beat them in combat and then the herd blows up and still does more damage to you, while the enemy just has his one unit getting hurt. And if that is a small knight unit, it could escape unscathed. And then get a free overrun after the herd has exploded.

Hoppers are just way better. Yes they are more unpredictable, don't have ranks, still suffer from animosity and are difficult to use. But they don't blow up from losing combat or losing all the night gobs and then do more damage to you than the enemy. And them taking some small shooting damage can actually help you later. Start with a unit of 6-7 and take 2-3 casualties and then you still have an fairly effective unit of 4 who don't suffer from animosity and won't need to worry about blowing up on a Waagh!

Fredmans
18-09-2008, 09:38
About those wraiths... Savage orc big boss on boar, with something like a nasty axe.

Or, a cheap axe, like the common sword that gives +1 attack. That one is something like 15 points, right?
And then mount him on the ironback boar for 35 pts. Since the boar is magical, the impact hits and attacks done by this beasty should be magical too, right? Or not? I don't really know actually, but it sounds logical that a magical thing does magical attacks.

If so, that can be like D3 impact hits and 7 attacks cutting through some non-existing body.

There was a rules thread discussing Enchanted Items, and the conclusion reached was that it needs to be stated whether the attacks are magical or not. The Ironback Boar does not claim to be magical. Otherwise, Nogg's Banner would give extra "magical" attacks, and so on...

/Fredmans (who also happen to dislike ethereals)

Avian
18-09-2008, 09:42
You are making the issue more complicated than it needs to be. The Ironback Boar is a magic item with its own attacks, thus naturally the attacks are magical. The Banner of Butchery is just a (temporary) stat boost and so it would not make attacks magical unless that was an added extra effect.

Malorian
18-09-2008, 15:36
So then would the extra attack from kicking boots be magical? And how about the gnashas? Since it changes all of your attacks would it also me magical? Or only if you get a killing blow?

T10
18-09-2008, 16:54
You don't actually make an attack with the Kickin' Boots. You just get an additional attack with whatever weapon you are using.

-T10

NurgleNuts
18-09-2008, 17:13
*just against VC!!*
As a lucid VC player, my banshees are an ace in the hole against some armies... one of them , unfortunately, is O&G. I can stop every spell you have targeting my banshees (as can any half decent VC player...actually... most half decent VC players don't even have to use bashees =P) So pushing for magic isn't necessarily bad... but theres better... Cheap characters with magic weapons in units are always good... and a Bo Warboss on Wyvern w/ a magic weapon usually spells death for me little pretties... as well as provide transportable leadership across your wide deployment zone. This might not necessarily be helpful against most armies... but against me VC... this could be the trick! Best of luck!
Cheers!