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Nerak
17-09-2008, 11:19
Iv'e finally started to play warhammer fantasy after having spent about 3years with 40k. Iv'e played Space marines and Imperial guard and plan to start a Empire army.
Most of it is cliché with swordsmen, spearmen, knights and priests. The only thing that differs a bit from your "average" Empire army is my idea of using huntsmen.

So, I'm planing on using 10 huntsmen (+marksman, cost of 105p) at 1000p and later on (at 1500p aprox) increase the number to 15. Later I might even increase it to 20. So are they worth it?
I think that 10 infiltrating str 3 bows can be usefull for harassing a flank or rear and may even be usefull for Warmachine hunting. They can't take much punishent but may work well as the scouts they are.

I plan on combining the wood elf kitt with the Empire milita (or Empire crossbowmen, havn't decided yet). The end result will be Empire bowmen with capes and hoods.
So, criticism/suggestions? Are they worth the points and work?

Makarion
17-09-2008, 12:34
Huntsmen are, sadly, very much not worth it. They don't even have longbows!

I fill their role with a detachment of regular archers that moves out into the open almost immediately, and with a unit of pistoliers on a flank.

Note, that the archers rarely actually cause more than a wound or two, since the strength 3 is a crippling disadvantage. If I'm lucky I get a fast cav model or two with them before they become redirect fodder (after having been missile screen for a turn or two, of course).

Now, the conversion sounds good to me, and purely for modelling purposes I see no reason not to try it, but don't expect them to be a good use of the points. Which is a pity, since I have some 5th edition huntsmen on the shelf.

Templar_Victorious
18-09-2008, 12:10
The only purpose at this time with those huntsmen, IMO is to stand behind an enemy unit charged by a hardhitting knight unit, or behind an enemy unit bound to lose against your CR 6 unit with detachment, in case that your unit doesn't catch them, they will run into your US 5+ huntsmen unit.

semersonp
18-09-2008, 14:56
i say, rock them out...

they can march block, destroy fleeing units lay down some close range fire and be placed last for a bit of tactical fun...

they don't eat up a S/R slot either, just precious points...

i say grab 10 of them, use them in a few games and move on from there...

plus, few empire players that i've seen use them... you can be special! :)

Malorian
18-09-2008, 17:57
They are a cheap march blocking unit if nothing else.

Then go after warmachines or hide them to contest the quarter.

Irisado
18-09-2008, 21:07
I wrote a short commentary on Huntsmen, which you may find interesting. It can be viewed here (http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2536327&postcount=66)

gsmc
15-10-2008, 03:40
The value of the huntsmen largely depends on terrain placement and deployment. At worst you've spent 20 points extra on a unit of 10 archers, at best you'll march block, harass and mop up fleeing enemy from somewhere critical in your opponents side of the board. The potential fun is worth the small risk.

Lord Dan
15-10-2008, 04:14
I wrote a short commentary on Huntsmen, which you may find interesting. It can be viewed here (http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2536327&postcount=66)

Great commentary, Irisado. I assume you have similar write ups for other Empire units? If so, I'd love a link.

Templar_Victorious
15-10-2008, 07:33
Though the listing is very useful Irisado, the Pistoliers may also shoot on the move. I'm pretty sure, though not 100% that the latest rulebook was out at the time of posting (Memory getting weaker as you* grow older).


*You in this case is actually me, but can be applied to alot of people.

DeathlessDraich
15-10-2008, 08:31
The alternatives to using Huntsmen are too tempting to ignore - detachments, Pistoliers, shooting units or beefing up other units.

It will be fun against some armies but practically useless against the current strong ones.

Irisado
15-10-2008, 19:27
Great commentary, Irisado. I assume you have similar write ups for other Empire units? If so, I'd love a link.

I only have a write up for Halberdiers, which available from the same thread as to which the Huntsmen article came from.

I rarely post in the Fantasy section (mainly because I don't play very many games of Fantasy, so my tactics tend to be rather out of date for most people), so I don't have a complete unit by unit rundown of the Empire I'm afraid.


Though the listing is very useful Irisado, the Pistoliers may also shoot on the move. I'm pretty sure, though not 100% that the latest rulebook was out at the time of posting (Memory getting weaker as you* grow older).


*You in this case is actually me, but can be applied to alot of people.

Don't worry, I know what you meant by the use of the impersonal 'you' :)(I used to teach English to foreign students).

Yes, Pistoliers can shoot on the move, but the advantage of Huntsmen is that they are far superior to Pistoliers at moving through difficult terrain.

DeathlessDraich:

I don't agree that Huntsmen are useless against stronger armies. For example, Vampire Counts are perceived to be a strong army, and my Huntsmen have proved invaluable against them, due to being able to enter woods, and get close enough to VC units to prevent them from marching. They are very useful if used well in my experience.

Templar_Victorious
16-10-2008, 01:32
Yes, Pistoliers can shoot on the move, but the advantage of Huntsmen is that they are far superior to Pistoliers at moving through difficult terrain.


The Pistoliers can take a route around the difficult terrain most of the time, and can cover twice as much distance roughly every turn, and that would make them better marchblocker IMO, though, the Huntsmen can deploy closer, but they depend on the terrain to do that for them.

It will take them a long time to redeply however and in earlier said Vampire army, there's some magic movement they won't block. Hope you don't feel like I'm saying all your points are invalid, they are not.

I feel Huntsmen had a better purpose in previous edition, when you could keep 'em 5 Strong and actually place them behind cover away from enemy LOS.
Now that they are 10 strong minimum (unless you can take them as a detachment with a minimum of 5 and then scout deploy them). Never thought that would be legal though.

I'm sorry for my inability to cut up the text properly... fixed it I hope.

DeathlessDraich
16-10-2008, 08:59
DeathlessDraich:

I don't agree that Huntsmen are useless against stronger armies. For example, Vampire Counts are perceived to be a strong army, and my Huntsmen have proved invaluable against them, due to being able to enter woods, and get close enough to VC units to prevent them from marching. They are very useful if used well in my experience.

I see them as easy points for Ethereals - a warm up for 1 Cairn Wraith who might not even get warm enough if they fail their Terror test.:p.

But, yes their Scouting ability does help them to march block; although a VC player will probably deploy a Cairn Wraith close to the most important of the possible Scouting terrains.

Against Daemons they'll be a turn 1 recipient of Screamers' slashing attack - probably causing Panic, but will be useful in slowing down units of Plaguebearers.

I would still prefer Pistoliers instead who could also fulfill the same march blocking function and have other uses.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
16-10-2008, 15:15
Huntsmen are a valid choice, I use them occasionally. They are a thinking Empire General's unit, in that they are useful in ways beyond how efficiently they kill your opponent's models. Things to consider:

*An enemy unit (say White Lions of Chrace) wants to move through a wood, but they can't because Huntsmen are inside it. And because the Huntsmen are more than 2" inside they can't be seen or charged, essentially making the wood impassible terrain for at least a turn.
*They can be good at hunting warmachines, such as Bolt Throwers. Sure their bows have a shorter range than longbows but that's why you scout them forwards. With their soft cover and skirmishing status they are actually reasonably survivable.
*The set up last which means you can put them near units with hatred and make them go where you want. Against Dark Elves with army wide hatred you can do this for the lols quite frequently.
*In fact, this reminds me how much I enjoy using Huntsmen against elves of all varieties.

Irisado
16-10-2008, 21:18
I see them as easy points for Ethereals - a warm up for 1 Cairn Wraith who might not even get warm enough if they fail their Terror test.:p.

But, yes their Scouting ability does help them to march block; although a VC player will probably deploy a Cairn Wraith close to the most important of the possible Scouting terrains.

Against Daemons they'll be a turn 1 recipient of Screamers' slashing attack - probably causing Panic, but will be useful in slowing down units of Plaguebearers.

I would still prefer Pistoliers instead who could also fulfill the same march blocking function and have other uses.

Pistoliers are undoubtedly the better unit on a more open table, but on boards with more terrain, the ability of the Huntsmen to skirmish makes them invaluable in my opinion.

Yes, they may be chewed by Wraiths and similar units, but I look at this way, if the Wraiths are busy destroying my Huntsmen, their assault on my main battle line is being delayed, which is just what I want. Wraiths are a pain against the Empire, and keeping them away from your blocks of infantry for as long as you can is always a good strategy.