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Lordmonkey
17-09-2008, 12:24
Someone in the O&G tacticia has described tactics for firing short bow-armed goblins at large tagrtes in multiple ranks. Nobody seemed to dispute it... can this be done? E.g, if you have a 5 x 4 formation of goblin archers firing at a dragon, can all 20 shoot?

neXus6
17-09-2008, 12:32
I am fairly sure they can, though it has been a while since I've looked, if I remember right it is only the models in front blocking line of sight that stop them shooting at anything else, as models don't block Line of Sight to a Large Target the whole lot get to shoot.

Allowing for the comedy 30 goblins with spider banner firing poisoned arrows at big things. :p

Edit: someone checked into me saying this in the thread you mentioned and for once I remembered the rules right. :D

Page 9 : Line of Sight - You can see models that are Large through models that are not Large.

Whitehorn
17-09-2008, 13:06
I confirmed in that thread.

Yes, they can. Versues large targets and units on hills, normal friendly units do not block LOS.

DeathlessDraich
17-09-2008, 13:48
It is possible for a shooting ranked-up unit to shoot a Large target outside its normal frontal LOS e.g. when the Large target is in its flank zone but past the last rank.

....LL
....LL
GGG
GGG
GGG...............facing ->
GGG
GGG

About 6 Goblins can shoot the Large target (L).

Braad
17-09-2008, 16:03
I think it even says so very specifically in the rule book, about models in back ranks being able to see large targets and models on a hill (or otherwise on a higher level). I'm not sure which section, right now, but I think somewhere in the shooting bit concerning hills...

It didn't say so that specifically in the 6th edition one, but I think even there it was already allowed.

SolarHammer
17-09-2008, 16:57
The only reason models in rear ranks can not shoot at normal sized targets is because the interposing ranks block line of sight. As you can see over normal sized models to Large Targets, the interposing models do not block line of sight, and thus all models are able to shoot.

Lordmonkey
18-09-2008, 07:37
Thanks everyone, that's answered my question :)

Oh yeah... due to this, taerij managed to shoot dead a Wood Elf Lord from the top of a dragon with...

*drum roll*

GOBLINS! :D

havoc626
18-09-2008, 08:21
If a squad of ranked units is on a hill, do they fire with one extra rank, or all? the rules confuse me how they jump from one to the other.

Cause it seems that your missile unit will get its bonus one rank, but then get kill by shooting afterwards if it is the first.

Braad
18-09-2008, 08:25
When they shoot from the top of the hill, they shoot with an extra rank.

When they shoot from below to a unit on top of the hill, every model that can see, shoots. This can be all of them.

The first rule is described as being in a better position to shoot, even though the second rank cannot actually see the enemy. Concerning the second rule, this is just: if you can see, you can shoot (if in range, of course).

Lord Dan
18-09-2008, 19:08
They can.

My Gnoblars dropped a giant during a tournament with their sharp stuff once. 40 S2 attacks is nothing to laugh at.

Arnizipal
18-09-2008, 19:57
The first rule is described as being in a better position to shoot, even though the second rank cannot actually see the enemy. Concerning the second rule, this is just: if you can see, you can shoot (if in range, of course).
Distance is still measured from the front rank right? It's not like half the unit can be within half range and the back ranks over half range?

neXus6
18-09-2008, 20:17
No Arnizipal the normal rules for shooting still apply, you measure range and check Line of Sight from each individual model then shoot each group that needs different values to hit.

This isn't 40k we are talkin about, Fantasy players are usually able to work out shooting with a unit that is split between different "to hit" modifiers. ;)

Lord Dan
19-09-2008, 02:38
Heck yeah, man! None of that pansy "Well, the front guy can shoot, so I guess everyone can!"

In the old edition you could actually split fire, which made things even more humerous. I'd have half the unit needing 6's and the other half needing 3's. :p

neXus6
19-09-2008, 02:48
Can you not still split fire if there is a case of some models in the unit not being able to see target A but can see target B?

I think I need to read the new rulebook a little more closely, or at least go back over it just to make sure I've not slipped back into 6th ed...or older. :p

Condottiere
19-09-2008, 04:52
I don't think you're allowed to split fire in a unit, exception being characters.

Lord Dan
19-09-2008, 06:21
Characters are the only noted exception. If some models can't see what the rest of the unit is firing it but can see another target, they just wave.

Braad
19-09-2008, 06:52
Indeed. IIRC it used to be that, when shooting against single-modelled target, like for example fanatics, you could split your fire, but not when shooting a unit... But don't hang me on that. Its also not really important anymore, since splitting fire is not allowed anymore, maybe except for certain special rules. And I don't have any shooting characters, so I don't care about that one.

AFAIK, it works like this:
You have to measure range and line of sight for every model in the unit if necessary. If the unit is partly in a different range, out of range, without line of sight or behind soft cover, then this can result in part of the unit shooting with a different modifier or not shooting at all.