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Shamfrit
18-09-2008, 00:37
Vampire Lord, Lvl.3
The Balefire Spike, Helm of Commandment, Crown of the Damned
Dread Knight, Lord of the Dead, Master of the Black Arts
420

(Cheaper than usual mobile and versatile lord, with good protection.)

Vampire, Lvl.1, Battle Standard Bearer
Talisman of the Lycni
Avatar of Death (Great Weapon,) Walking Death
180

(Shade, Beast, Seeker Killer.)

Vampire, Lvl.2
The Flayed Hauberk, Dispel Scroll
Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte.
195

(Casting support, bunker the Skeletons.)

Necromancer
Van Hel's Danse Macabre
Dispel Scroll
80

I have tried to keep the characters to a minimum and this is the best I can come up with to cover as many threats as I can whilst keeping the cost down so I actually have an army to deal with the immense magical pressure I could be under.

10 Casting Dice
7 Dispel Dice, Scroll X2

---(Total Character Cost - 875.)---

10X Skeletons, Musician, Banner, Champion
100

10X Skeletons, Musician, Banner, Champion
100

(Basic core to build up to 15-20 strong, if not more, depending on Magic resistance.)

20 Zombies
80

20 Zombies
80

(I intend to use this is a screen of 40 zombies, two long lines, covering a denied flank to push back distract, and tie up the enemy units.)

5 Dire Wolves
40

5 Dire Wolves
40

(Carrier units for the Lycni Vamp, or protective screens from baiting - the Blood Knights especially.)

Corpse Cart
Unholy Lodestone
100

(To remain close to the skeletons, increasing casting effectiveness and keeping my Vampires alive longer.)

(Total 1255)

5 Black Knights
Musician, Standard, Banner of Hellfire
174

(This is my flanker, or otherwise known as 'Plaguebearer Killer.')

3 Fellbats
60

3 Fellbats
60

(Anything Furies do, Fellbats do better! Cheap deployment options, can flank, block LOS and take hits from spells and flamers - more importantly. They look cool.)

4 Blood Knights
Musician, Banner
Royal Standard of Strigoi
285

(Total Cost - 1994)

---

All Comers List Against Daemons, Seriously Need Help!!!

Spirit
18-09-2008, 00:51
Well try and fit in the banner of the undying legion. x2 unit strength will be very usfull for NOT losing against daemons, especially with their small unit size.

I would drop motba on the lord, and take lvl4 instead. Lets you take hatred for your 4+1 attacks and increases your chances of hitting the all important vanhells.

I dont like blood knights, i would take a varghulf over them always, but thats just me, i know they can be very effective.

Also, if you drop the balefire spike (just dont go near nurgle heralds with him) then you can take the bloody hauberk over the crown of the dammed. 1+ save and 5+ ward wins over stupidity. Even at Ld 10 if you fail once, which you usually do, you lose 4 or 5 power dice. Not pretty.

Iv'e never needed 2 dispell scrolls in my vampire army, and i rarely take even one at 2k, your vampires are better used to fully kill the enemy, thus not dying themselves. Even on the necromancer, i would rather give him a bound spell. Staff of damnation would be good with your WS 7 knights of flaming doom, the rod of flames would be good for killing those pesky flyers, and the book of arkhan... well its just great. A bound spell is a great way of increasing the magic potential of necromancers, in my opinion.

Lastly, i don't see what 2 units of fell bats are going to achieve, one will march block basically the entire daemon army, and 2 will just do the same thing, because they cant engage daemons, else they alsmot always die.

Hope i was of help.

him_15
18-09-2008, 00:55
what kind of daemons you are up to against?
A pure khorne has completely different way to deal with a mixed daemon forces.
You will have difficulity if he bring on a greater daemon, let's say a BT..

Shamfrit
18-09-2008, 00:58
Well try and fit in the banner of the undying legion. x2 unit strength will be very usfull for NOT losing against daemons, especially with their small unit size.

Good idea, I'll shuffle numbers to add it to my Lord's unit.


I would drop motba on the lord, and take lvl4 instead. Lets you take hatred for your 4+1 attacks and increases your chances of hitting the all important vanhells.

I didn't actually intend on casting anything other than Invocation, if I roll Gaze or Curse I may attempt it once the units are up to scratch, but keeping the Blood Knights and Black Knights alive is a considerably higher priority, I'm a cavalry sweep sorta guy. The Spike isn't for the flamming, it's to enable a suicide charge into a GD if needed, or to OHKO chariots should they appear. I'm considering the armour switch though...I'm just expecting Armour Piercing and most definitely armour negating to appear, Killing Blow also, the Ward save is crucial.


I dont like blood knights, i would take a varghulf over them always, but thats just me, i know they can be very effective.

One thing puts me off.

Flamers.


Fellbats

Two are always better than one, right?


Dispel Scrolls

You make a very argument for the removal of the scrolls...especially in favour of the Staff of Damnation...that will boost combat potantial and give the overlap between characters a boost.

Scrolls dropped, Staff added, I'll use the points difference to add Invocation to the Necromancer should no opportunity arise to cast Van Hals.

Thanks :D

---


what kind of daemons you are up to against?
A pure khorne has completely different way to deal with a mixed daemon forces.
You will have difficulity if he bring on a greater daemon, let's say a BT..

That's just it. I'm the Daemon player of the group - my opponent is the resident Vamp, we're switching armies to expand horizons and learn more about each other's armies as he's having trouble with Daemons and I want to learn more about each army (for world domination!)

Now I know exactly how he feels...I'm suspecting Khorne will be focussed, or he'll bring a balanced Herald list, but I've really no idea.

Spirit
18-09-2008, 01:00
Why does the burning lance allow you to charge a GD? I didn't think they all had regeneration?

theunwantedbeing
18-09-2008, 01:01
Your level 2 vamp appears to have more than 50pts of bloodline powers.

You still have nearly 900points of characters.
1 lord, 1 caddy.(600pts max)
Use your rare slots for extra vamps.

Bigger units, more wolves, a second cart(dont bother upgrading them).

Gear your lord towards combat.
ie, red fury, dreadlance, +1 combat res power, steed.

Shamfrit
18-09-2008, 01:09
Your level 2 vamp appears to have more than 50pts of bloodline powers.

45, to be exact.


You still have nearly 900points of characters.
1 lord, 1 caddy.(600pts max)
Use your rare slots for extra vamps.

I am considering dropping the Blood Knights in favour of unit expansion and to make that Necromancer a Vampire - how would you suggest doing this, but I'm afraid of not having any combat potential and attrition does NOT work against Daemons.


Bigger units, more wolves, a second cart(dont bother upgrading them).

That works for me.


Gear your lord towards combat.
ie, red fury, dreadlance, +1 combat res power, steed.

I have tried this before but I know if he does bring moderate or more magic I won't get any raising done at all and I'll have failed from turn one - I will need to spam Invocation to stay alive. Or am I in the wrong vein of thinking?

EDIT:

Because it gives me Str 7 - wounding on 3+, negating any armour save, and he'll then have a 2+ save and a 4+ ward to hopefully knock aside attacks back. I like to include suicide options, namely because I'm used to throwing my Goblin shamans into random combats and watching them beat the crap out of things ten times their size (a Dogs of War captain with 2+ armour save par example!)

theunwantedbeing
18-09-2008, 01:45
Dark Acolyte doesnt give +1 combat res then....lol
Indeed it is 45.

Attrition works fine vs daemons.
You just need to keep them in place to surround them and hit them with something hard to make it work.

Raising means nothing if your opponent just re-kills them and you can't hurt your opponent.
Generally speaking, without absurd luck...the Vamp setup I sugguested win's you fights, on your own, easily.
Use him to cripple the scary units that dont start off with ranks (like bloodcrushers...he'll eat them alive).

Dread knight gives him a lance...so he already has st7.
The balefire spike just gives him flaming st7.

gorenut
18-09-2008, 02:25
On a side note.. if you really want your lord to be doing combat amongst Khorne guys.. you might consider the armor that makes him immune to killing blow. Would be a shame if you were scared to engage combat due to fear of killing blow.

Shamfrit
18-09-2008, 09:48
I'll re-vamp (badoom!) the list and re-post before I leave, I didn't realise about Dread Knight, it's a typo in Army Builder.

And believe me, I'd considered the Cuiriass, but that only gives him a possible 4+ save, 4+ ward, and the 4+ ward SHOULD protect him enough. I'll see what I can come up with.

Thanks so far!

---

Vampire Lord, Lvl.3
The Balefire Spike, Helm of Commandment, Crown of the Damned
Dread Knight, Lord of the Dead, Master of the Black Arts
420


Vampire, Lvl.1, Battle Standard Bearer
Talisman of the Lycni
Avatar of Death (Great Weapon,) Walking Death
180

Vampire, Lvl.2
The Flayed Hauberk
Lord of the Dead, Dark Acolyte.
170

Necromancer
Van Hel's Danse Macabre
Staff of Damnation
95

10 Casting Dice
7 Dispel Dice, Bound Spell.


10X Skeletons, Musician, Banner, Champion
100

10X Skeletons, Musician, Banner, Champion
100

20 Zombies
80

20 Zombies
80

7 Dire Wolves
56

Corpse Cart
Unholy Lodestone
100

5 Black Knights
Musician, Standard, Banner of Hellfire
174

4 Fellbats
80


4 Blood Knights
Musician, Banner
Royal Standard of Strigoi
285

Okay, with some tweaking that's been suggested I'm left with the above list and 80 points to spare.

I am considering switching the Blood Knights but these, in all honesty are my one-trick pony. With the Fellbats and wolves to screen, I should be able to get them into combat when they're needed to be.

I'm not sure if Dread Knight gives a lance as Army Builder says otherwise - can anyone confirm? Then I can switch Balefire...or keep it, since flaming attacks will help him if he charges Plaguebearers to the flank etc.

theunwantedbeing
18-09-2008, 16:45
Get the damned armybook!
Quit using armybuilder because it's wrong.

Please?

Anyway...your list appears to have taken a step backwards.
Why on earth have you bothered with musicians in the knight units?
That's 16 points wasted.
You don't need a musician or champion on the skellies either, so that's another 30points you can save as well.
So 46 spare points so far.

The unholy lodestone isnt overly needed either, which will end out saving you a full 71 points for no real loss.

Add that to the 80 you had spare to begin with and that's a full 151 spare points you can get out of that list.
Another 20 skellies would be 160points.

I would clarify what the dreadknight does, but as you dont seem to have the book it doesnt seem fair to just give you the answer (somehow it feels wrong to use armybuilder when you dont have the book).

Drop a couple of dire wolves off that unit of 7 and you'll now have enough points to get both of those skeleton unit's to 20 strong to begin with. (much better prospect)
As there is very little chance of a magical gunline just blowing away those 20 skellies and killing the vampire off as well in a single phase. Although it's perfectly possible to manage when you start off with only 10 of them.

Shamfrit
18-09-2008, 17:25
I don't have the army book because I don't play Vampires, as I've said. We're switching armies to improve one another's game - and I forgot to ask to borrow his book at the time we agreed to do it - so now I have the book I know Army Builder is wrong!

I will drop the points above and increase the skeletons to 20 to start with - :D

Shamfrit
18-09-2008, 23:45
Well, it was a Marginal Victory to me in a very, very close game. Possibly the closest I've had! (7 Points between a draw and a Marginal.)

That was a bloody hard game to swing back to my favour I tell you now...

the fabricator general
19-09-2008, 16:24
Damn you'r eyes for taking the cadaverous cuirass!