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Tyco
18-09-2008, 11:26
Enlighten me... Is it possible to have, say, dwarven or elven vampires?

MvS
18-09-2008, 12:18
I was told 'no'.

Dwarfs are physically resistant to that sort of thing and Elves are spiritually resistant. Add to that the fact that it takes more than just a bite to turn a being into a vampire. The vampire has to share its blood with its victim (more than just a splash of it) as well as drain a good deal of the victim's blood, creating the magical, spiritual and quasi-sexual/familial bond between them.

Resultantly, Vampires are incredibly picky about who they choose to 'turn'.

Humans are terrified of death, generally speaking, and so they are the prime recruitment ground for vampires. Elves and Dwarfs are not that bothered by feelings of mortality. It just isn't in their natures.

There might be an argument for a Druchii who wants to become a vampire for the additional power he or she thinks the process would bring, but I don't know.

All this aside, the imagery is entirely flexible and so I would suggest you go with whatever seems most entertaining to you personally. :)

stormblade
18-09-2008, 12:54
I'd say no vampirism was always such a human thing.

Failures_Burden
18-09-2008, 12:56
No it's not possible within the current warhammer fluff to sire a non-human, this is due to the fact that the elixir which Wsoran and Neferta created was intended only for human use.

isidril93
18-09-2008, 14:16
i dont think any elf or dwarf would. not even a druchii as they might be power hungry but they dont risk their soul like that.

MrBigMr
18-09-2008, 15:21
People just haven't tried hard enough. Keep sucking on those necks and I'm sure sooner or later someone will yield. And if not, at least you tried.

kylsnik ironhead
18-09-2008, 15:49
No it's not possible within the current warhammer fluff to sire a non-human, this is due to the fact that the elixir which Wsoran and Neferta created was intended only for human use.

Does that mean that there was no animal testing:D

Tyco
18-09-2008, 15:51
Why wouldn't there be other races powerhungry enough for immortality (besides humans)?

Dark Elves or Skaven wouldn't mind...

Ethlorien
18-09-2008, 16:20
I would think halflings and ogres would try as well - a vampiric tyrant, yeah that'd be pretty powerful.

Simon Sez
18-09-2008, 18:24
I would think halflings and ogres would try as well - a vampiric tyrant, yeah that'd be pretty powerful.
Ogre's don't need to be vampires, they'll drink your blood anyway (And your marrow, and your precious bodily fluids . . . )

Ethlorien
18-09-2008, 18:31
True, but I was picturing a Maneater from Sylvannia dressed in a long black cape and nice suit and fake, badly wleded on teeth. His gnoblars would be dressed as bats, of course.

masecase
18-09-2008, 18:35
There can be non-human vampires created, some carsteins turned for example their favourite steeds, they just don't choose to turn other humanoids.

heinrichvoncarstein
18-09-2008, 19:10
OMG... here we go again. This has been discussed several times before. If you want to know more just go to www.vampirecounts.net and their discussion on this

Kronos
19-09-2008, 01:11
True, but I was picturing a Maneater from Sylvannia dressed in a long black cape and nice suit and fake, badly wleded on teeth. His gnoblars would be dressed as bats, of course.


Fatman ? with green boy blubber ?....definitly..



As for the actual topic at hand, i can't see vampires wanting to actually mingle with other races apart from humans, after all it's up to the Vampire. And i can't see a von Carstein asking an ogre to be his apprentice, a halfing as a slave/helper..Igor...maybe but not a vampire.


Now Skaven being short lived, i think They would want to have the Immortality of a vampire, how they would go around becoming one is probably harder than actually making their own immortal elixir,who honestly wants to bite a giant rat on the neck?

Condottiere
19-09-2008, 06:01
Having lived through Werewolf Vampires, and Vampires of various races, I'd say that it depends on the indulgence of the game controller. Having said that, any such exception should be carefully weighed, be only a rare occurrence and truly unique, as well as relevant to the storyline.

Alathir
19-09-2008, 10:05
I'm almost certain that GW has stated (admittedly not explicitly) that only humans can be turned to vampirism, it was created by a human for humans. Elves, Dwarfs, Lizardmen, Ogres etc. cannot be turned.

Arnizipal
19-09-2008, 11:39
not even a druchii as they might be power hungry but they dont risk their soul like that.I think they would actually. How do you think those sorceresses make all those daemonic pacts?

Besides, becoming a Vampire is much safer for your soul than to let it fly off into the Aethyr upon your death.


There can be non-human vampires created, some carsteins turned for example their favourite steeds, they just don't choose to turn other humanoids.
Never heard that before. Vampire horses? :wtf:
Source?

Abhorash
19-09-2008, 12:12
I think elfs see vampirism more like a proof of human weakness, and thats why they dont want to become one...

Urgat
19-09-2008, 12:21
Come on, a gnobblar vampire would rock :D You gie it a black cape like in those old movies, some dark hair brushed back, and a white skin, Gnobblacula!

MrBigMr
19-09-2008, 12:45
I think people sometimes tend to be a little too narrow minded, especially when it comes to things like fantasy races.

I remember a thread (not here, though) about interspecies relations in 40K and someone stated "never gonna happen, it would be like beastiality." Hmm... Right. Because no one does that. We have a term for a thing that never happens. And if we take the sex out of it, have you seen some of those animal nuts, people who treat their pets not only like people, but like royalty.

Hell, I think it's insane to think that a Vampire couldn't have a secret fancy for non-humans. Not everyone finds supermodels (male of female) that hot. And even if they did, does not mean they would shun things that aren't on the same level. Love is blind. Or very poor sighter at least. I remember one girl who things commander Angelos from DoW is hot. The guy looks like Gunther's (from Friends) grandfather for Pete's sake.

Not to forget that there's always a chance for some mad Vampire professor doing experiments on other races with vampirism. Not to forget the "creating a master race of *inser race* to take over the world! Bwahahahahahahaa!" type of thing. Why? Why not? Humans have been able to do horrific things to each other for all eternity, so why aren't other races capable of betraying their people for what ever reason?

Revlid
19-09-2008, 13:25
Never heard that before. Vampire horses? :wtf:
Source?

Sounds more like the way they make lesser human servants into their 'cattle' (as opposed to actual vampires).

From the Prospective Fantasy Background FAQ:

Question: Can Vampires can be races other than Human?
Answer: Really a matter of preference - Gav says not through being bitten. I agree. Others think otherwise.

Here (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112698)
Here (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53215)
And here (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36251)

kroq'gar
19-09-2008, 13:34
Vampires can only be humans because the blood used in their creation was human...

and i do belive non human vamps are possible. Nagaash's magic was a fusion of insane genius and dark magic... dark elf dark magic.

Could, say, an elf not find a book of nagaash, pervert it to their own use and form a potion made from elven blood?

Count Demandred
19-09-2008, 14:01
Fatman ? with green boy blubber ?....definitly..



As for the actual topic at hand, i can't see vampires wanting to actually mingle with other races apart from humans, after all it's up to the Vampire. And i can't see a von Carstein asking an ogre to be his apprentice, a halfing as a slave/helper..Igor...maybe but not a vampire.


Now Skaven being short lived, i think They would want to have the Immortality of a vampire, how they would go around becoming one is probably harder than actually making their own immortal elixir,who honestly wants to bite a giant rat on the neck?

Exactly.

And besides, an Elf would be able to spot one from a mile away. And realistically, Elves would be the only other race they could possibly assimilate into.

will564752
21-09-2008, 16:00
yes non-Humans can become Vampires.

However - as has been stated before - they cannot be turned via the Blood Kiss (usual method of creating Vampires)

Other races could become vampires however by drinking the Elixir of Life (although this is non-existent now right?!) Or something similar. - but may not resemble human vampires in abilities or appearence. ;)

Kronos
21-09-2008, 16:22
Vampires can only be humans because the blood used in their creation was human...

and i do belive non human vamps are possible. Nagaash's magic was a fusion of insane genius and dark magic... dark elf dark magic.

Could, say, an elf not find a book of nagaash, pervert it to their own use and form a potion made from elven blood?



Was it not using Dark ef blood ?......pretty sure that the Imortality of a vampire was achieved through the blood of the dark elfves Nagash captured.


So really i can't see the elixir giving elves much of a difference, besides maybe, either killing them and bringing them back to ife as undead, but not as vampires.


I see it as a "disease" were as animals remain unaffected by ceratin diseases and completley destroys humans...i can't think of any at the moment but thats how i see being a Vampire is.

Whitehorn
21-09-2008, 16:29
Why wouldn't there be other races powerhungry enough for immortality (besides humans)?

Dark Elves or Skaven wouldn't mind...

Because Humans are very shortlived. Elves and Dwarves live a lot longer.. to rreach an age where they likely don't want to be immortal.

will564752
21-09-2008, 16:32
Was it not using Dark ef blood ?......pretty sure that the Imortality of a vampire was achieved through the blood of the dark elfves Nagash captured.


So really i can't see the elixir giving elves much of a difference, besides maybe, either killing them and bringing them back to ife as undead, but not as vampires.


I see it as a "disease" were as animals remain unaffected by ceratin diseases and completley destroys humans...i can't think of any at the moment but thats how i see being a Vampire is.

Nope it wasnt Dark Elf blood. Nagash learned Dark Magic off the Dark elves a long time before the first vampires were created (a few hundred years i think) - and as they were trying to escape and they were no longer useful to him, Nagash killed them. ;)

Arnizipal
21-09-2008, 17:40
Because Humans are very shortlived. Elves and Dwarves live a lot longer.. to rreach an age where they likely don't want to be immortal.
Immortality is not the only benefit of vampirism. There's also the added physical strength and endurance and the innate magical abilities and command over lesser undead.

Lockjaw
21-09-2008, 20:48
in the Drachenfels novel, there was a breif appearance by a dwarf vampire.

I could see maybe an ogre going to eat a vampire (blood and all) and becoming one that way (must of been bad meat)

my own VC army has a vamp elf, zombie dwarves and gobbo's, skeletal lizardmen. I don't do the 'human's only' thing, sorry, that's boring and been GW's stance on almost anything for so many years

Tokamak
21-09-2008, 23:06
I believe the vampire book said something like it was very unlikely but still possible nonetheless.

A dwarf lord losing all his pride in a decayed underground city, a high elf trying to save the life of a loved one, or a wood elf clinging on to a decaying forest, so integrated in the place that he/she corrupts with it.

There are a few possibilities but it doesn't ever come close to the fear of death humans have.

Kronos
22-09-2008, 00:17
a wood elf clinging on to a decaying forest, so integrated in the place that he/she corrupts with it.

That right there is perfect fluff for an alternate army, sounds very good, and would really have endless possibilities....stag as a Varghulf, eternal guard as Grave Guard. Dryads on 40mm bases painted light geen and blush wash, representing the dead spirits of the forest......i have the theme just not the time and money :(....

However as Tokamak has pointed out there are possibilities for "Lords of the Dead".. perhaps not Vampires inhereting a blood kiss etc.. but definitly enough ideas to make a VC based army.

for another example... Lord of Slaanesh (think of using Sigvald ;)) and his Warband/army is cursed by either X necromacer or X Vampire to forever wander the wastes...never dying but instead decomposing. The armywithers into skeletons, some retain all the power they had as chosen (grave guard) and some just go mad into the first few days and begin eating one another until an Undying tribe is formed within the army (Ghouls). The Lord although cursed still has his soul, flesh and allegiance to Slaanesh his mind, body and soul remains faithful Slaanesh Beguling like other servants of Slaanesh but he cannot conquer the curse of the Vampire nor can taste, feel, or even show emotion as a servant of Slaanesh (a Vampire with the Beguling and Lahemia like abilities.



There might not be Vampires of other races other than humans, but there are hundreds of reasons to why an Army is undead and can be used like a VC army imo.

MrBigMr
22-09-2008, 00:29
I've come to suck your blood! (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158476)


As for non-vampire count/TK armies of the undead, I once had the idea of a Sleepy Hollow style Khorne Chaos army. The whole fluff for it is pretty much summed up in the following quote from the movie Ghost Dog:

"Even if one's head were to be suddenly cut off, he should be able to do one more action with certainty. With martial valor, if one becomes like a revengeful ghost and shows great determination, though his head is cut off, he should not die."

Imagine an army of headless Khorne warriors, knights, etc. Marching on with a cloaked figure on a horse watched over them and controls them with their skulls that are piled up on his base. I just don't think that Chaos Warrior models fit on 20mm bases to work as skeletons.

Kronos
22-09-2008, 00:38
funny you should post that MrBigMr,I've just come back from watching the Dark Knight and when i just posted above you i was thinking of that thread.....would make for a hilarious vc army.


thats a very cool idea btw about the Undead Khorne army, "Skulls for Khorne...but not for you!". As for Using warrior of chaos models perhaps Marauders might fit ?

grumbaki
25-09-2008, 16:44
I would just like to add this to the discussion:

The Blood Dragon Slayer: Imagine it. A slayer seeks out the vampire, to find a heroic death. He fights and loses, but impresses the vampire enough to be turned. As a slayer he has a motive to seek out and fight the nastiest of monters. As a blood dragon, he has a physical need to test himself against them. Add to that the shame of being turned, ontop of what his previous shame was that made him seek death. All in all, you get a devastatingly powerful, completely insane killing machine who can't help but seek out the nastiest things that the old world has to offer.

The idea of seeing such a character is enough to make me hope that fluff wise it is possible to see non-human vampires.

Lamhirh
27-09-2008, 06:20
No it's not possible within the current warhammer fluff to sire a non-human, this is due to the fact that the elixir which Wsoran and Neferta created was intended only for human use.

Exactly. Being given the Blood Kiss by a human vampire wouldn't work, it would simply kill them or at least make them very ill. Some folks say non-human vampires are impossible, but if you are well versed in the fluff that argument quickly falls apart. There are pointy-eared zombies, wights, revenants etc. basically all undead are corpses and/or spirits bound and animated by varying amounts of Dhar. To create an elven vampire you would need to have a magic-user of no mean skill concoct a more potent variant of Neferata's Elixir, but one based on elven instead of human blood. Interesting and frightening possibility that. Because even though vampires have weaknesses, the ones created using the elixir can rip most mortals to pieces with their bare hands before said mortals can even react. It's a good thing more dark elves aren't that tempted to research into this further because of their naturally long lifespans. Dark elven vampires would be very nasty indeed...

Hellebore
27-09-2008, 06:29
If an elf became a vampire, he'd grow massive spiky yellow hair (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=cDjmeAMD-2M) and the world would implode in an explosion of craptacularity (yes I used implode and explode in the same sentence to describe the same thing, THAT'S how crap it would be).

Of all fantasy archetypes the elves and vampires have the biggest fanboi base who all want to BE one or the other.

Combining them together would create the biggest fanboi joygasm since the eldar Fall, and then we'd be left of Fanboinesh, god of lonely people obssessed with imaginary archetypes they will never be.

Did I mention how much I LOATHE the amount of fanboi love that elves and vampires get?


Hellebore

MrBigMr
27-09-2008, 06:46
Oh goody, I'm not in Hellebore's Sphere of Loathing then. I dislike elves (including Eldar) and vampires. They're both dicks. Visually appealing, but the whole angsty emo attitude with arrogance and sense of superiority just doesn't give me anything at all. I like werewolves (including Space Wolves) though.

But hey, some like mommy and some like daddy.

Hellebore
27-09-2008, 06:55
Oh goody, I'm not in Hellebore's Sphere of Loathing then. I dislike elves (including Eldar) and vampires. They're both dicks. Visually appealing, but the whole angsty emo attitude with arrogance and sense of superiority just doesn't give me anything at all. I like werewolves (including Space Wolves) though.

But hey, some like mommy and some like daddy.

Lol that's the problem exactly. I really just don't like the attitude. There's a difference between respect and love for an archetype. I respect elves and like them, but I don't LOVE them with the gushy crap that gives liking them a bad name.

As an aside I have a 'generalised' theory about people predelictions for certain archetypes.

If you like Elves:

You like Vampires and Cats

If you like Dwarfs:

You like Werewolves and Dogs

Each tends to represent a specific psychological ideal (generally masculine and feminine) and so (from the test group of 10 or so geeks I've questioned) many people choose the same 3, whether it be elves, vampires, and cats, or dwarfs, werewolves, and dogs.

There have been SOME divergences (a friend likes dwarfs and werewolves but prefers cats for some unknown reason) but from the small test I've run it stands up pretty well.

I think I'll go put up a poll in RM to test it further.

Hellebore

MrBigMr
27-09-2008, 07:07
I think that with cats, elves and vampires it's the whole alpha-male thing. Or at least the attitude of such. Non the less women want one and men want to be one.

Lamhirh
27-09-2008, 08:19
If an elf became a vampire, he'd grow massive spiky yellow hair and the world would implode in an explosion of craptacularity (yes I used implode and explode in the same sentence to describe the same thing, THAT'S how crap it would be).

Of all fantasy archetypes the elves and vampires have the biggest fanboi base who all want to BE one or the other.

Combining them together would create the biggest fanboi joygasm since the eldar Fall, and then we'd be left of Fanboinesh, god of lonely people obssessed with imaginary archetypes they will never be.

Did I mention how much I LOATHE the amount of fanboi love that elves and vampires get?

You and your archetype fetish :p. One thing is contemplating the possibility of something happening based on the fluff alone :eyebrows:. Another is running with the misshapen result at full speed...right into a wall :angel:.

TBH DE vamps would probably go batsh1t crazy ala Mannfred...only they'd look prettier. HE vampires would have a wangst rating that would be off the charts *shudder*.

Don't look at me. If I had a choice I'd be something far more awesome like a C'tan.


If you like Elves:

You like Vampires and Cats

If you like Dwarfs:

You like Werewolves and Dogs


Let's see:

I love cats, dogs and werewolves
I like elves, dwarfs and vampires

I suppose that makes me a...human of indeterminate gender.

Geordie Vampire
27-09-2008, 09:54
now im no expert on the wide fluff of fantasy so dont judge this to harshly. but maybe its true that other races like elves cant be turned into vampires by the blood kiss or even at all. but its fantasy its all make believe. (yes sorry to dissapoint some of you) its ment to be about creative enjoyment of the game theres no set laws about things. because a while back i think it was on the USA GW website because i dont think it was the UK one but some one made a HE vampire army and he was like in the GW production team or something. and i plan to make a Dark Elf Vampire for the fluff of my army and im saying she recieved the blood kiss of a von carstein and if it wasnt for their ties to chaos she would have died because who truly knows what chaos is capable of. and the TK back when they were "alive" whos to say they were not different genetically like super humans to the rest of man because they were so advanced while the people later known as the empire where still sitting in caves because isnt Nagash like 10ft tall and since he got his knowledge of DE which was passed on (stolen by neferata) who knows whats truly in those books and some dark elves do worship chaos even if its not there main god Khaine or openly admit it because thats were they learnt there magic. So i think non-human vampires are possible because theres some fluff to fantasy youll never truly know or understand :evilgrin:

WrYpoRrY
27-09-2008, 10:43
Sex has always been part of the idea of vampires, with turning another person into a vampire being a sexual sort of thing. GW wont get into inter-species stuff like that.

Besides, if you were a vampire, would you bother with non-humans?

MrBigMr
27-09-2008, 11:56
GW wont get into inter-species stuff like that.
They used to. Then someone started thinking a little too much about cross species genetics and how its done, and they buried the idea quietly into a landfill outside of Nottingham. Along with anyone who didn't like the idea of burying it.


Besides, if you were a vampire, would you bother with non-humans?
Might as well ask "if you were a human, would you bother with non-humans?"

w3rm
06-10-2008, 22:25
it would be pretty cool to have a night goblin vampire. or mebbe a skaven would agree to it they really wouldent care one way or another

heinrichvoncarstein
07-10-2008, 16:16
in the von carstein novels it says:
a) Dwarf blood doesn't taste too good...
b) skaven blood tastes like something rotten (like if we would taste rotten food)

It also mentions somewhere that orc blood doesn't taste too good either.

Lockjaw
07-10-2008, 23:52
Lol that's the problem exactly. I really just don't like the attitude. There's a difference between respect and love for an archetype. I respect elves and like them, but I don't LOVE them with the gushy crap that gives liking them a bad name.

As an aside I have a 'generalised' theory about people predelictions for certain archetypes.

If you like Elves:

You like Vampires and Cats

If you like Dwarfs:

You like Werewolves and Dogs

Each tends to represent a specific psychological ideal (generally masculine and feminine) and so (from the test group of 10 or so geeks I've questioned) many people choose the same 3, whether it be elves, vampires, and cats, or dwarfs, werewolves, and dogs.

There have been SOME divergences (a friend likes dwarfs and werewolves but prefers cats for some unknown reason) but from the small test I've run it stands up pretty well.

I think I'll go put up a poll in RM to test it further.

Hellebore

I like dwarves, but also like cat's as well as dogs, I like werewolves, only really like vampires if their like Kain from the LOK series, or the Blood Dragons, I hate the goth/emo/lestat sit in a graveyard and sulk kind.
Elves, they're ok I guess, I'm more indifferent, mostly been done to death.

as far as elf vampires go, yeah, if it's a fanboigasm, it's going to suck hardcore, if you can do it well, then it's not too bad.

(fluffwise the vampire elf in my army is the weakest thrall of the blood dragon lord and gets kicked around alot)

MrBigMr
08-10-2008, 00:03
only really like vampires if their like Kain from the LOK series
Oh, me too. Raziel's just so dreamy...
...
What were we talking about? Oh, yeah, Raziel...

Arnizipal
08-10-2008, 11:48
I hate the goth/emo/lestat sit in a graveyard and sulk kind.
Actually, Lestat was the archetype 'I'm better than you' aristocratic vampire (much like von Carsteins in Warhammer). Louis was the whiney one.

Concilliator
08-10-2008, 13:42
ill be very glad when everyone finds another dumb fad to mention every three minutes

newsflash every thing under the sun is not emo-- emo is a *********** puppet from sesame street.

I am an old man so these terms kids use these days just confuse and anger me.

Ethlorien
08-10-2008, 14:14
newsflash every thing under the sun is not emo-- emo is a *********** puppet from sesame street.

That's Elmo. And he'd make a terribly cute vampire.

Arnizipal
08-10-2008, 14:42
I am an old man so these terms kids use these days just confuse and anger me.
There there...
This (http://xkcd.com/166/) will cheer you up (and perhaps give you some good ideas ;) ).

ChaosTicket
08-10-2008, 15:03
Vampirism is a human-only curse. Fell Bats are giant vampire bats that have become undead, but haven't actually been turned into Vampires.

Dwarfs, elves and the like could be cursed with similar traits such as drinking blood from one form or another of various curses, but Vampirism by Necromancy is a human-only curse.

MrBigMr
08-10-2008, 15:44
newsflash every thing under the sun is not emo-- emo is a *********** puppet from sesame street.

I am an old man so these terms kids use these days just confuse and anger me.That's Elmo.
You know what they say, it's the memory that goes first.

Concilliator
08-10-2008, 16:00
well then !

yes I will probably forget that I posted if not for the fact that I can see it.

LION
08-10-2008, 16:50
46465 My slightly twisted mind was pondering on Undead Lizards when I fell on this Thread. Anbody tried it or thought up a viable fluff link? Surely on a Hot day a Vampire might fancy a cold one?

;)What about a fallen Young Spawning Slann who takes the kiss willingly as an act of Rebelion against Conservative 2Nd Gen Slann master? LION

------------------------------
Lions Weekly Bitzs Box Blitz Sponsored by Elf Glue
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165087

Wurrzog da Orcy Tomb King
16-12-2009, 18:14
To the original poster on the subject of Vampre-dwarfs/elves and to Lion on undead lizards, the answer is;

if you want to go ahead.

It's your game as much as everyone elses so you can do what you wish with it. Thats why games workshop left a lot off fluff open ended like where the old ones go and such. To let the imagination of people every where do what they want

Oh god what have I been smoking? Let the imagination off people everywhere? i need to get out more Urgh!

Also Hellebore I like Dwarve werewolves and cats, and if it was possible I'd have a Short Werecat with a beard who went round shooting and slaying people cos it'd be awsome!!:evilgrin:

Wurrzog
(who is now going to bash his head against a wall for typing imagination of people everywhere...)

R-Love
16-12-2009, 22:46
It's Alive! ALIVE! :eek:

Check the last active date before you post, threadomancy is frowned upon