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View Full Version : My Lizards versus Wood Elves, any thoughts?



mattmanforever
19-09-2008, 01:56
Hello all!

I have an upcoming game against a wood elf player, and was wondering if anyone had any tactical advice, army comp suggestions, etc. Allow me to give you some basics.

*We're both relatively novice players, having only been playing the game for maybe 7 or 8 months, and only serious for the last 2 or 3.
*We're playing 1500 point games, but we're playing in a map campaign and my prodigious mines have allotted me an extra 130 points.
*As far as my preference and range of models available, I am still walking the arguably foolish road of going somewhat Saurus heavy. I have a pretty reasonable range of models for the point values we're talking, and our group is pretty proxy friendly this campaign, on account of 4 of the 6 people starting new armies for it. I understand that Skinks are the better bang for my buck, but it's a personal preference that I try to make an army of (at this point level) two decent sized blocks of Saurus.
*As far as what I can anticipate, I expect my opponent to go magic-light, and have a pretty well-rounded army list. Though she is realizing just how good a Forest Spirit army is (she recently bought a Drycha model), for now I know I can expect a unit of Eternal and Glade Guard. I am realistically expecting one of each Core choice, some Warhawk Riders, some treekin, and either some waywatchers or a treeman. She likes to go with the kindred that allows her character to act as an Eternal Guard and expect to see that again.

Any thoughts?

Makarion
19-09-2008, 04:53
A Saurus block with some Kroxigors might be a good combo-charge versus EG, and with Salamanders and skinks you have shooting reasonably covered.

Unless you use special spawnings from Lustia, I'd stick to a scroll caddy, or not even that and use MR.

thisisntnotjt
19-09-2008, 14:14
Who told you that it's foolish to go saurus heavy? They're amazing!

in my 2250 army I take two big blocks of 24 and around 50 skinks. Too many of the little guys tends to clog up the board, and smart generals using cavalry will charge your skinks at convenient angles to hit your blocks in the flanks. You still have to be careful with them.

On that note, however, skinks will chew up anything in the woody army that's not skirmished, while sallies will take out the rest with no problems. Use the Saurus to herd the elves into kill boxes for your S&S's , unless they feel like getting charged by S4 A2 models.

Oenghus
19-09-2008, 14:31
Good advice so far -- especially the bits about the Salamanders. They are by far your best tool against skirmishy, woods-dwelling elves, and your opponent will likely know that. Try to keep them protected as best you can, and screen them from shooting with your cheap, cheap skinks.

Consider the cheeky move of giving one of your saurus blocks the "move-through-woods-without-penalty" spawning (sorry, don't have my book handy). That could be a nasty shock for elves used to owning the forests. Of course, they'll still likely flee, but...

kroq'gar
19-09-2008, 14:40
Ok... being a vet lizard vs Wood elf player few key tips.

1: do not play there game. Wood elves are an army where if their plan works, your massacred. This mostly involves- DO NOT GO IN THE WOODS. BE CAREFUL OF WOODS.

-Deepwood sphere, teleporting tree king and a plethra of combos of nastiness await.


-Take magic. Take a decent amount, two packs of salamanders, and make them come to you.

-Avoid killing blow where possible - your saurus characters heads will roll around.

-Ignore NO unit. If its there, its doing something.


If these help, sweet, if not... well, i like puzzles.

thisisntnotjt
19-09-2008, 14:48
Good advice, Kroq, though he's playing 1500 points, making 2 packs of sallies and heavy magic impossible and difficult repectively.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
19-09-2008, 15:29
Skinks vs archers are good and they are fast and can scout and deploy in water. They can also absorb the missiles taht would plague your useful units. I would use them in small units. I would also use terradons and maybe even keep scouts behind your own lines to prevent would be march blockers. If he shoots you die! Good luck ;)

kroq'gar
19-09-2008, 15:43
Good advice, Kroq, though he's playing 1500 points, making 2 packs of sallies and heavy magic impossible and difficult repectively.

Yes and no.

Two unlimited range spells (eg uranans thunder or comet) will be enough, and salamanders i find work best in packs of two (so two time two would only set back about 350)- they still break and run with 3 as two, but you get two targeting options.

thisisntnotjt
19-09-2008, 16:11
Yes and no.

Two unlimited range spells (eg uranans thunder or comet) will be enough, and salamanders i find work best in packs of two (so two time two would only set back about 350)- they still break and run with 3 as two, but you get two targeting options.

Well, as for the sallies, you only get 1 rare choice at 1500 points.

He's limited with only 3 hero choices, as well. I doubt he would get much off unless he took 3 lvl 2's, otherwise he might get off a thunderbolt, assuming he rolls it. Comet is next to useless against woodies.

mattmanforever
19-09-2008, 16:52
Thanks for the advice thus far!

I think I may go with a Scar Vet and 2 Skink Priests, possibly at level 2. I feel as though, knowing how this person generally composes her lists, I'll likely be able to assert myself in the magic phase with just that. As far as the Scar Vet, should I really consider taking the flaming weapon? I think I can expect some Treekin, but is attempting to exploit flaming really worth taking that sword (the name eludes me)?

Salamanders will definitely be there, if only to deal with the potential waywatchers. Does the Salamander's special attack count as flaming? I didn't see as much in the book or in the FAQ, but it seems that most people think they do, so I was wondering if there was something I missed.

Are the Kroxigor an even match for the Treekin? I'm naturally concerned about them becoming pin cushions, and a skink screen only goes so far to abate that.

What about the Dryads? She loves Dryads, and I feel like point for point they outclass a lot of the stuff in my army. Any solid solutions? She usually runs groups of 12.

thisisntnotjt
19-09-2008, 17:30
Thanks for the advice thus far!

I think I may go with a Scar Vet and 2 Skink Priests, possibly at level 2. I feel as though, knowing how this person generally composes her lists, I'll likely be able to assert myself in the magic phase with just that. As far as the Scar Vet, should I really consider taking the flaming weapon? I think I can expect some Treekin, but is attempting to exploit flaming really worth taking that sword (the name eludes me)?

Salamanders will definitely be there, if only to deal with the potential waywatchers. Does the Salamander's special attack count as flaming? I didn't see as much in the book or in the FAQ, but it seems that most people think they do, so I was wondering if there was something I missed.

Are the Kroxigor an even match for the Treekin? I'm naturally concerned about them becoming pin cushions, and a skink screen only goes so far to abate that.

What about the Dryads? She loves Dryads, and I feel like point for point they outclass a lot of the stuff in my army. Any solid solutions? She usually runs groups of 12.

Saurus blocks will beat treekin and dryads in a frontal fight, but she might be able to dance around you if she's clever. Depending on how worried you are about that, the flaming sword might not be a bad idea to ensure victory quicker.

Sallies spit attack unfortunately DOES NOT count as flaming. I think it did in the 6th edition faq, but they never brought it back up in 7th. Oh well.

Kroxigors are a bit suscepible to shooting, but they shouldn't have to worry about treekin. Get the charge off and mow through them.

kroq'gar
20-09-2008, 03:42
Salamanders still do count as flaming- so they burn woodelves but cant hurt those damned high elves.


Dont waste time with the flaming weapon- take a great weapon with venom of thefirefly (for magical st 7 attacks)\

Two skinks will be enough- give one of them the diadem. If she really is magic light store some of your dispel dice for 8 power dice in your phase.

OldMaster
20-09-2008, 11:19
I think Dryads may very well become the doom of your Skinks. And with that, maybe even your artillery.
The biggest problem I think you'll encounter is being surrounded by her, like thisisntnotjt said, so.. you need something that will avoid her doing that.
If you let them do their work, Glade Guard can be pretty dangerous for Saurus blocks if you let them do what they're good at. Hit on a 3, wound on a 4 (short range) armour save 5 or 6. Not very big chances, but if she has loads and she moves all the time, then you will not catch her..

mattmanforever
22-09-2008, 04:03
Where does it indicate Salamanders cause flaming attacks with their "breath" attack?

thisisntnotjt
22-09-2008, 12:56
It doesn't. They don't. It's only in the flavor text where it says they "hurl flaming acid/ venom/ nonsense".

Pavic
22-09-2008, 14:27
Where does it indicate Salamanders cause flaming attacks with their "breath" attack?

Actually, this is a huge debate currently.

First at the recent GTs it was ruled that High Elves in Dragon Armour are immune to Salamander attacks, but Salamander attacks are not flaming. This of course makes no sense, since Dragon armour makes one immune to flaming attacks. Therefore, one ruling must be incorrect.

Second, the Salamanders ability is called Spout Flame, suggesting that the attack is flaming.

Third, the Dwarf Flame Cannon does not indicate anywhere in its description that the wounds caused by the cannon are flaming. However, it repeatedly uses the word flames, flaming, etc. throughout the description. I am pretty sure very few people would argue that the Dwarf Flame Cannon is not flaming, but the point is, it does not specifically state that it is flaming.

Best advice, sort it out with your opponent before hand. On a side note, my group has decided that the attacks are flaming.

thisisntnotjt
22-09-2008, 16:24
I didn't realize that was the situation with the Flame Cannon. That changes everything!

mattmanforever
22-09-2008, 17:52
Fair enough. We'll definitely have to bring this up the next time we set up the league. Hears to hoping it's clarified in the new book.

back on main topic: having heard some good ideas of what to do, what should I avoid? The advice to avoid chasing them into the woods is very good. Any really bad units? Some magic items obviously have limited use comparatively.

I'm thinking about not taking the flaming sword, since I really doubt there will be more than a unit of treekin. It seems like overkill, and it seems like points spent that will largely stop mattering after they are felled.

Aryakin
22-09-2008, 17:55
Ok now i've got a question, first off i play VC and Woodelves and my girlfriend plays lizards, and i've had this issue i've not been able to resolve, even to the point where i've gotten different answers from different gw employees etc...

its never made sense to me that skinks cannot scout in water, as in the fluff thats part of what they did. Hell without the ability to scout in water (as it doesn't "break line of sight") it gave VERY LITTLE if ANY reason to use terrain peices on water as a skink army would just be liimiting its ability to scout effectively. Anyway so we went on and decided they could scout in the water and could be targeted after their first turn or whatnot, but we were called out on it by a few people at our local store, so i actually went and asked a few gw's and i would get mixed answers.

Earlier in this thread i noticed someone mention that you could... is there any spot or place i can see (and potentially print out or reference) about that ruling?

Necromancy Black
04-10-2008, 01:18
How can you possibly say skinks can't scout into water?

Page 26 of the LM rulebook, under skinks and scouts:

"Scouting skinks count as being out of sight if they are deployed within a water feature and more then 2" from it's edge. They must still deploy 10" or more from enemy troops as normal."

For what possible reason would that make it so skinks can not scout into water? From the first turn they will be seen, as they've risen out of the water to fight, but having soft cover from the auquitic rule it's a -2 to shoot them.


Also the flaming sword your talking about is the Buring Blade of Chotec, and is the standard weapon I give my scar-vet general. This is mostly cause it also adds an additional -2 armour save to the attacks, making it a fantastic weapon at 25pts!

But against elves with their weak armour saves you'll be better with the sword of the horet or a great weapon + vemon of the firefly frog combo (taking the sword of the hornet lets you have a shield for added defense).

You could also give a hero the Gleaming Pendant of Chotec. Give it to either a skink priest and put him in your generals block, or give it to the scar-vet and take a Sword of Biting. Then run some skinks up front of the block. The idea is to get a big unit of dryads or block unit to charge the skinks. The skinks will fight and then most likely flee. This'll let that unit overrun into the block with the pendant. Next round of combat, which will be your turn, use the pendant and strike back as though you had just charged.
The idea is to draw a unit out of line with the rest of the army while keeping all your troops inline.

Now, if your serious about winning, advoid this as it's not a solid stratigy. But in these lower point games it can make the difference. Above 1500 advoid this.

Just my 2 bob for ya