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Makina
21-09-2008, 08:28
Hey guys, just finished my VC list and would love some opinions. Besides the ghouls and Corpse Cart I have all of these models already in my posession.

Lord (430)
lvl 3
MotBA
Summon Ghouls
Dread Knight
The Cursed Book
Dark Acolyte
Book of Arkhan

Vamp 1 (150)
Sword of Battle
Talisman of the Lycni
Infinite Hatred

Vamp 2 (150)
Ghoulkin
Summon Ghouls

Vamp 3 (195)
Dark Acolyte
Black Periapt
Sword of Might
Summon Ghouls
Nightshroud

Crypt Ghouls x 14 + Ghast (128)
Crypt Ghouls x 14 + Ghast (128)
Crypt Ghouls x 14 + Ghast (128)

Corpse Cart + Balefire (100)

Dire Wolves x5 (40)
Dire Wolves x5 (40)

Black Knights x6 (233)
Full Command
Banner of the Dead Legion
Barding

Fell bats x4 (80)

Black Coach (200)

So, what do you think?

Stinkfoot
22-09-2008, 01:54
Unless you have an uber-magic list or you're playing 3000+ points (you don't/aren't), I don't think the Black Coach is a terribly good investment. A Varghulf will do much more damage and is tremendously harder to kill.

Vampire 2 is doing nothing for you. Give ghoulkin to Vampire 1 and pocket the extra 125 points.

I don't really like banners on cavalry units with a character. Black Knights are best as support units anyhow, which means they'll never need a standard - they're there to flank. As such, the standard is more of a liability than an asset in most situations.

If you drop everything that I suggested above, you'll save 191 points. That's enough to buy a small unit of wraiths (maybe drop a few more points to make it a unit of 4), or buy another unit of black knights. Either choice would improve your list dramatically.

VC Doke
22-09-2008, 18:48
Unless you have an uber-magic list or you're playing 3000+ points (you don't/aren't), I don't think the Black Coach is a terribly good investment. A Varghulf will do much more damage and is tremendously harder to kill.

Vampire 2 is doing nothing for you. Give ghoulkin to Vampire 1 and pocket the extra 125 points.

I don't really like banners on cavalry units with a character. Black Knights are best as support units anyhow, which means they'll never need a standard - they're there to flank. As such, the standard is more of a liability than an asset in most situations.

If you drop everything that I suggested above, you'll save 191 points. That's enough to buy a small unit of wraiths (maybe drop a few more points to make it a unit of 4), or buy another unit of black knights. Either choice would improve your list dramatically.

I disagree on two points.

The Coach is slower being a chariot but it is clearly harder to kill than Vargulf (except cannons).

Black Knights are great flankers, but need that banner to make the costly models worth their weight in combat.

Vamp #3 vamp is a 'One Dicer' to raise more models with a 3+ invocation.
Vamp #2 should be scraped as described above.

Caine Mangakahia
22-09-2008, 23:26
Hey guys, just finished my VC list and would love some opinions. Besides the ghouls and Corpse Cart I have all of these models already in my posession.

Lord (430)
lvl 3
MotBA
Summon Ghouls
Dread Knight
The Cursed Book
Dark Acolyte
Book of Arkhan

Vamp 1 (150)
Sword of Battle
Talisman of the Lycni
Infinite Hatred

Vamp 2 (150)
Ghoulkin
Summon Ghouls

Vamp 3 (195)
Dark Acolyte
Black Periapt
Sword of Might
Summon Ghouls
Nightshroud

Crypt Ghouls x 14 + Ghast (128)
Crypt Ghouls x 14 + Ghast (128)
Crypt Ghouls x 14 + Ghast (128)

Corpse Cart + Balefire (100)

Dire Wolves x5 (40)
Dire Wolves x5 (40)

Black Knights x6 (233)
Full Command
Banner of the Dead Legion
Barding

Fell bats x4 (80)

Black Coach (200)

So, what do you think?

Check your bloodline costs, MotBA & ark Acolyte is 80 points before the other two you've taken. Not a huge fane of DW myself, but some people like'em. Take banner of Strigos on your BKs, you need to make sure you hit on the charge with your hammer unit. Banner of Barrows is oK but Strigos is cheaper and has the same effct in the first round

Stinkfoot
23-09-2008, 03:05
I disagree on two points.

The Coach is slower being a chariot but it is clearly harder to kill than Vargulf (except cannons).

Black Knights are great flankers, but need that banner to make the costly models worth their weight in combat.

On the first point: I suppose it has a lot to do with who you play with, but just about everybody I play against has at least a hero with strength 7, and I see a fair few cannons. As such, I would never take a single chariot, as it will get blown apart before it does any damage. In any event, speed means a lot with a terror causer, and the Varhgulf doesn't collapse in a prolonged combat like the 'Coach does.

A flanking unit doesn't need unit strength, since the unit it is supporting will provide enough numbers to autobreak. The double unit strength banner is decent if you have a vampire or BSB in the unit, and can therefore win combat on your own and need the assurance of the enemy breaking. The OP doesn't have such a unit (or at least he shouldn't a Vampire general should NOT ride with a small unit of knights), so the knights don't need the banner.

Makina
24-09-2008, 19:15
Thanks for all your comments :)

Black Coach: T6, 3+ armour, 4+ ward
Varghulf: T5, regen
I don't think a Coach is that much easier to kill, besides, I have the Coach already so I'm going to keep that in :) I agree with you that a Vargulf is probably the better choice, but for the moment I'm not going to buy the model.

I'm going to change the gear on my vamps a bit, and would love your opinions.
I have a question about my Lord, Dread Knight gives him heavy armour, but if my memory serves me right he isn't allowed to cast then. Can anyone tell me where I can find this info?

I think I agree with the banner choice Caine, will change it in my list :)

Stinkfoot
25-09-2008, 01:51
I have a question about my Lord, Dread Knight gives him heavy armour, but if my memory serves me right he isn't allowed to cast then. Can anyone tell me where I can find this info?

That was a rule in 6th edition, but it was eliminated with the transition to 7th. Your vampire can wear heavy armor and cast normally.

Makina
01-10-2008, 10:36
Changed the list around quite a bit, decided to go with skellies cause I'd have to buy like 70 ghouls and I already have all the skeletons I'll ever need.

Vampire Lord, MotBA, Lord of the Dead, Dread Knight, Helm of Commandment, +1 magic level, Walach's Bloody Hauberk (420)

Vampire, DA, AoD (great weapon), Book of Arkhan (185)

Vampire, DA, AoD (great weapon), Black Periapt (165)

Vampire, Dread Knight, BSB, scroll (175)

Skeleton Warriorsx15, FC (140)

Skeleton Warriorsx15, FC (140)

Skeleton Warriorsx10, FC (100)

Dire Wolvesx6 + 1 Doom wolf (66)

Black Knightsx7, Barding, Standard Bearer, Royal Standard of the Strigos (247)

Black Knightsx6, Barding, Standard Bearer (184)

Varghulf

Quite a few big changes in there, opinions?
Will my Black Knights keep ethereal movement with barding?
Where would you advise me to put the Lord? I'm used to putting him on a Zombie Dragon or in a zombie bunker but both those options aren't very viable at the moment.

EvC
01-10-2008, 10:51
Seems a shame that you gave in and lost the Black Coach!

theunwantedbeing
01-10-2008, 11:09
Put the coach back.
You can let it hang back with your skellie units and so all your vampires can go off to fight the enemy while the skellies make their way to the enemy.

Mv8 chariot thats a vampire.
Mv4 troops that can only march if a vampire is nearby.

Seems the sensible thing to do really.
Coaches are brilliant anyway, they draw every bit of enemy firepower the enemy has, they'll do that especially so if you leave it to babysit your infantry, as that means your infantry will take ages to get into the fight.
Leaving your vampires and knights to go hurt the enemy, if the faster stuff is attacked, then the coach and infantry arrive to save the day.

Drop 1 of those character's (prefferably the most expensive hero) and get either another unit of skeletons or make the current ones a lot bigger.
As in no smaller than 25 models, drop command models to free up point's if you have to.
You can have a single smaller unit (but then you may as well use zombies as you'll get twice as many and they'll be able to screen the entire army. (big long line with the coach behind the middle of it)

If by "all the skeletons you'll ever need" you mean you have enough for those 3 tiny unit,s then you are sadly mistaken.
40 skeletons is not all you will ever need....it's barely half.

Makina
01-10-2008, 12:06
I'd still like to keep the Coach, but I'm not sure where I'd get the 25 points from.
I don't think it's very smart to let my vampires go fight while my infantry blocks are still back there, I'd rather have my vampires alive ^^
I disagree about making skellies 25 to start with, I don't have a lvl 3, 2 lvl2's and a lvl1 vamp for nothing.

And when saying "all the skeletons I'll ever need" I mean all the skeletons I'll ever need, about 100 skellies and 40 zombies should do the trick.

By the way, MotBA for 50 points, or making my lord lvl4 for 30 points? I'm not sure what to choose.

darknar
02-10-2008, 09:46
MOTBA so you can spam ION 1 more time than normal

LV 4 for a extra spell you wont use since you will be spamming ION

Makina
02-10-2008, 16:16
Agreed but is it worth the 20 points? Probably yes :)

Any other comments on the list? I was considering getting a Wight King BSB, cheaper, a wound extra but I'd lose 2 dice.

Opinions?

Makina
15-10-2008, 23:20
Played a few games, the list did well.
Question: with Lord of the Dead and a Skull staff, does IoN get casted on 2+? I'm not sure how that functions this edition.

Kalec
16-10-2008, 00:50
A spell can never be cast on anything lower then a 3, so no. It does help if you ever have him cast other spells, or if you are facing an enemy with balefire carts/skull staff/staff of sorcery.