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View Full Version : Tactical fit of new WoC Forsaken over chaos ogres?



Mireadur
21-09-2008, 20:26
I just began storming the new possibilities of the incoming WoC army in my mind and when i reached the forsaken i thought 2 things:

While they are a nice unit for converting and quite effective stats wise (M6, D3+1A) im currently wondering if they bring any real new advantage to the army considering you've got a pretty similar unit in theform of chaos ogres. (which arent subject to frenzy and cause fear in adition).

What are your general thoughts about them? what reasons would take you to include them over ogres other than fluff or appearance tastes?

Valaraukar
21-09-2008, 21:47
For one they're about half the cost 18 points instead of 35 granted ogres have more wounds but you get more attacks from a single forsaken and more than double for the same cost with 2/3 the wounds, they have a similar armour save by most accounts and you can get many more in B2B contact with the enemy so many attacks which can be brought to bear. These would be my main reasons for taking forsaken over ogres however I could probably come up with as many for the other viewpoint too.

Mireadur
21-09-2008, 23:00
well, a similar front would allow 5 forsaken (15 attacks on average) for 3 ogres, 13 attacks with extra hand weapon or 10 2 handed wep attacks (pretty powerful)

Taking 10 forsaken and 3 ogres appears to be pretty balanced in attacks, wounds, and points except ogres seem to get more rules benefits and protection (marks, chaos armour and 2hand weapons).

The point however is not that ogres appear to be better point by point but that forsaken doesnt seem to fit any specific role that an ogre couldnt do (and imho a little bit better).

Eidan
22-09-2008, 15:13
do they have D3 attacks, +1 for beeing frenzied?
So lets see:
- Forsaken are a rank'n'file unit and can therefore have bonus, if there are 10+ Forsaken left.
- Ogre can have a commando unit, Forsaken not
- 5 Forsaken get 5D3+5 A, on average this means 15, you have to take 4 Ogers to get these
- Forsaken have WS5, Ogre only 3
- Both can be pushed with the Eye of God, but on forsaken its more usefull
- Ogre can be joined by Characters
- A life point costs 18, if you take forsaeken, A life point costs 11 if you take Ogres, so you can get more life points, thats better if the enemy shoots on you
- Ogre cause fear, but do only have Ld7
- Forsaken are frenzied and therefore immune to psychology
- Forsaken have Ini5, Ogres only 2

Valaraukar
22-09-2008, 15:18
It's a little unclear how many attacks forsaken have on the profile it says D3+1 however frenzy is not normally shown on the profile any more so that would be D3+2 and it says they arte armed with two hand weapons which si also not normally shown on the profile which would make D3+3 now if either of these are correct it makes for an extra 5 or if both 10 attacks in that frontage of 5.

Kerill
22-09-2008, 15:49
If its D3+1 ogres are far better, S6 and a 4+ save will be very useful. They can also be marked Khorne if you are an attacks junkie and fear goes a long way. Forsaken can't have a character join them and thus will have no protection from magic and normal missiles. Ogres can also have a champion if you have the shrine to rack up some EOG bonuses. Even if it was D3+2 I'd prefer the ogres since they are good against both knights and infantry whereas forsaken are more infantry killers. If its D3+3 then forsaken will have a clear role.

There is though the possibility that if you take a minimum character army (1 exalted/sorcerer) and use the extra points for troops you could amass a fairly big unit of forsaken for lots of attacks and a rank bonus.

Forsaken if taken will of course require a hound screen.

SolarHammer
22-09-2008, 16:00
The +1 for Frenzy is included in their statline. I believe the book is explicit in this regard. The rumour roundup says:

- D3+1 attacks
- Frenzied (bonus attack included in the D3+1)

And I have heard the same from enough independent sources to believe it must be stated in the book.