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reikhardt
22-09-2008, 23:27
Hello,
In about one week i'm going to play a 1000 points game against an ogre army.
Here is the problem: it's my second playing dark elves,and my first time fighting ogres.So i'm asking here for some tips that would help me,like what kind of units would be preferable to field.
Thanks :angel:

captain chaos
22-09-2008, 23:33
As many shooting and magic units as you can, and one solid, elite melée unit to tie up any ogres that survive to get anywhere near you, so your missile units survive. This is coming from an ogre player who doesn't like missiles

Dtrik
23-09-2008, 00:05
Take poison when you get the chance, when you take away our toughness, ogres are really squishy. Watch your flanks, one of the biggest ogre weapons is speed so dont let him pick his charges. Take some dark riders to tie up his flanking units. If you are good at guessing ranges, try to place your units to deny him the bull charge (if you are unfamiliar with the rule, if they charge further than 6" then each ogre gets an impact hit at their base Str). Just try to weaken up his big guys before they hit home, his general will have to be a bruiser and they live up to their name, luckily though they take up a huge chunk of points at the 1000pt level so try to kill him from afar or avoid him if you arent sure you can win. As usual, look out for fear, try to keep your general close. However, ogre leadership is also a big concern so try to start some panic tests! They can do some real harm in the ogre battle line. I don't have much specific advice for DE because Im not familiar with the new book, just a couple tips from an ogre player.

reikhardt
23-09-2008, 01:59
However, ogre leadership is also a big concern so try to start some panic tests!

That's why i thought of maybe adding an hydra to the army.The problem is that i only have 1 rare choice,and i don't know what to chose between the hydra and the bolt thrower,because like captain chaos said,i'll need strong missiles.

pkain762
23-09-2008, 03:16
in 1000 pt battle, the ogre guy is going to bring something along the lines of this

a bruiser (mandatory)
a Butcher(many ogre players think that one butcher is mandatory) butchers are casters for the ogre army,

have a unit of bulls
a unit or two of iron guts (ogres carrying gw's)
then a couple of big blocks of gnoblars (goblins)

then maybe a gorger ( can come off any table edge, similar to deep striking)

something along those lines, don't challenge the bruiser or tyrant, they have a lot of attacks high strength and a lot of nasty equipment

take magic and missles, and one elite unit as said above and you'll be fine, let them come to you

kain

Kalec
23-09-2008, 03:41
A couple units of crossbowmen to fill your core and slaughter gnoblar screens, a good unit of blackguard with the ASF banner, a master with the regen armor, a hydra, and whatever else you fell like.

Valaraukar
23-09-2008, 08:38
Harpies and darkriders to march block and if given bows weaken his ogres whilst you shoot him then get flank/rear charges when he closes in.

Str10_hurts
23-09-2008, 11:40
I'd say use any form of fear/terror you can find. This is were ogers are most weak.

Get preff 2 masters one of on a mount with the deathmask, the other give him the pendant of kaleth and the armour of darkness (El' indestructable) and GW dump him in a nice big unit of spear elves or even better black guard with ASF banner.
Toss in a hydra with some shooting and you will give the oger player a hard time.

narrativium
23-09-2008, 12:10
Str10_hurts: It's not their weakest point, since ogres cause fear. Their Leadership is a sore point, though, so terror could cause some damage, but panic will cause even more damage.

Str10_hurts
23-09-2008, 12:12
Str10_hurts: It's not their weakest point, since ogres cause fear. Their Leadership is a sore point, though, so terror could cause some damage, but panic will cause even more damage.

Doh!
Yep I implied there ld 7 is on the low side. Forgot they caused fear.

Mannfred
23-09-2008, 12:38
Okaii crossbowman will probably be like ur best bet; even taking in small units of 10 warriors with no shields will cost 60 pts and they can be used to disrupt charges and redirect into more easier to kill areas...some people say black guard are the better choice but against orges i have to say executioners are ur best bet since str 4 isn't as helpful as str6 when against ogres. Use a simple unit of harpies or warriors to bait a unit of bulls or iron guts into charging and then counter charge with a unit of executioners thats at least 7 or 8 wide into the front if they have no characters; then use a cauldron to give them all +1 attack; so all of a sudden ogres are up against 14-16 str 6 attacks with re-rolls to hit....Cold One Knights are also gud with a flank charge even a unit of 5 on the flank will tear up a unit of bulls...

But most important is that u make sure u don't go all out shooting; have a unit thats combat incase all fails again; remember ur not a High Elf that just deploys archers and bolt throwers and just prays to cut them all down....Your a Dark Elf and u use ur opponents strengths against themselves.....

reikhardt
23-09-2008, 20:45
Wow,did'nt expect to get that much replies :p Thanks to all of you.

I don't have crossbowmen for the moment,so i'll maybe equip my dark riders with crossbows,as dark riders and corsairs are my only core choices right now.
I think executioners would be a good choice,as they would hurt ogres on 2+.

Anyway,thanks for all those tips,i'll post results of that game. ;)

theunwantedbeing
23-09-2008, 20:57
Harpies march block.

Dark riders run around the flanks stipping the odd wound or 2 off the ogres, if at any point an ogre unit has it's flanks open and any 1 model of it's unit is on a single wound left the dark riders charge in, finish off the wounded ogre and win the combat, running the enemy down easily enough in most cases.

Crossbowmen are rather useful vs ogres as well, the sheer volume of shots can whittle them down noticably, and with a low model count and non-too spectacular leadership they're easily sent running.

Magic and such can generally be ignored in lower point games.
It's usually hideously 1 sided in favour of the dark elves whenever the 2 armies meet, especially with the new Dark elf rules.

Zachary
23-09-2008, 23:33
I have only played against ogres with HE but i have found that BG with ASF banner and a master can tear up ogres reletivly easily. this is in comparison to the HE pheonix guard and swordmasters. I used these to kill 6 bulls and 2 brusier with barly any damadge to their own unit!

aimbob
24-09-2008, 00:58
Hi I play against ogres regularly with my dark elves. Usualy 2k. I'll share my experiences with you guys.

OGRE MAGIC
I would take 1 level 2 sorc with darkstar cloak. This way you have 5 PD, you can cast 1 spell with 3 dice and dispell a nasty RIP gut spell that got through. Use this sorc primarily as extra magic defense. If you need to dispell 2 RIP gut magic spells then don't cast any spells that turn and just dispell the RIP. Also take a dispell scroll just in case. During your own magic fase don't be afraid to let a spell through to only dispell it in your magic phase, since your magic fase is before shooting and combat fase the ogres won't benefit the spell.

WHAT RARE CHOICE
The big question take a Hydra or RBT against ogres? I would say both. A hydra can do alot of damage with 7 S5 attacks. But be sure you know how to handle one because it can be tricky to get this hydra on the right position.

If you don't have experience with the war Hydra then the safer choice would be the Reaper Bolt Thrower. You can take down a few ogres before they get to you. Just select a unit with a second rank and shoot that first. I shot 8 wounds on a unit ogres with 2 RBT in first turn. But don't depend on them to much because you can miss or roll a 1-2 on the D3 wounds roll.

ENEMY HAS SHOOTING!
Watch out for the Leadbelchers they tend to hurt. But then again they tend to blow up! If the Leadbelchers are on the flank then I usualy place my 6 dark riders with repeater crossbowmen around the leadbelchers. But make sure you don't get into firing range! And watch out they can move and fire! So keep your distance of at least 18" Your crossbows have 24" range so 20" is as good as 18" only safer.

COMBAT
I suggest not taking warriors since they are to weak to take on ogres. Use your elite units. A good choice are the black guards and executioners.

Executioners are great against ogres with S6 but you need the charge so take this unit not so big mayb 10 and place them next to a unit like using it as an empire detachment. Charge in flank of enemy unit in combat with the friendy unit next to them.

Black guards are good to hold down a ogre unit. Their task is not so much to win combat since they are stubborn they can keep their ground after losing combat. Giving you enough time to aid the black guards.

Cold one knights are great S6 on charge and S4 cold ones are also capable of taking down some ogres. Even so try to avoid charing into a unit ogres with a hero. You're never gonna kill every ogre in the unit on charge so you will suffer casualties and may cost you the combat. I usualy take 6 cold one knights with standard of slaughter and use it to flank a unit already in combat. It usualy wins me the combat.

YETI
The yeties can be a big supprice they can walk over impossible terrain. You might think they will take 2 turns getting around the building but 1 turn later they climbed over the building.

SCRAPLAUNCHER
Don't be to afraid of this one, it's like a S3 stone large template strapped on a beast. Even with a succesfull hit you're not gonna lose to much models.



This is what I would field in 1000 points against ogres

Sorceress @ 160
Level 2, darkstar cloak

Master @ 109
Great weapon, Armour of Darkness

6 Dark Riders @ 139
Musician, repeater crossbows

10 Crossbowmen @ 100

15 Black Guards @ 280
Full command, Standard of Har Graef, Soulrender

5 Cold one Knights @ 210
Full command, Standard of Slaughter

998 Total

narrativium
24-09-2008, 11:08
Just to comment on aimbob's post: at 1000 points, the Ogre army almost certainly won't be including any units with more than one rank (for considering the bolt thrower) though it's nasty if you can get it pointed at an Ogre unit's flank. An Ogre flank is always vulnerable but watch your own flanks, too.

Yhetees can't go through buildings, it's not on their list of terrain that they ignore (nor are aquatic features).

A single Ogre Butcher will have 4PD to play with and will likely take advantage of their 3+ value to try casting four spells. Also, note they're not RIP spells, they're spells which last one or more turns - this is important, because RIP spells stop working when the wizard casts something else, flees or dies; Butcher spells don't stop in those cases, and the same spell can be in effect on multiple units (no more than one cast per magic phase, though). You've still got the chance to dispel them in subsequent phases, but you'll need at least two dispel dice per try; something to keep in mind.

Nomad
24-09-2008, 17:57
something along those lines, don't challenge the bruiser or tyrant, they have a lot of attacks high strength and a lot of nasty equipment


I would have thought that a Dark Elf Master or Dreadlord with the Pendant of Khaeleth and some kind of strength-boosting weapon would do quite well against ogre characters, seeing as he'd have equivalent to a 2+ ward save against them.

Embalmed
25-09-2008, 09:03
Just to comment on aimbob's post: at 1000 points, the Ogre army almost certainly won't be including any units with more than one rank (for considering the bolt thrower)

When I play OK at 1000 pts I include 2, sometimes 3 units of gnoblars with 25 in each, they're great value.

List of units he probably won't have:
-leadbelchers
-yhetees
-scraplauncher
So don't worry about these guys, they're too expensive at 1k.

What I would worry about is getting swamped from all sides by cheap units. In 1k I would put up:

Bruiser
Butcher
3 * 3 bulls
3 * 25 gnoblars
3 IG
Gorger
Maybe trade something for trappers

So that's 7 regular units + one that'll come up from behind. The list suggested by aimbob gives you 4 units (I'm not saying the list is bad, it looks solid, just that you need to be prepared to be outnumbered), so that would be worth considering.

Col. Dash
25-09-2008, 15:03
Their magic is crazy. one won at a tourney this past weekend and stomped the floor with me. He had 3 butchers and simply ruled the magic phase even though I was tossing out 5 dispell dice. In hand to hand even the BG got crushed by his command unit. Iron guts with a butcher crushed my lord and CoKs due to a badly timed stupidity roll. His panic spell was the biggest killer add to that the toughness spell.
He had no gnobblars in his army and his scrap launcher was very effective, wiped out all but 2 of my 8 shades in one shot panicking them plus some good BG hits.
Crossbowmen would be a great help for you, bring at least 2x10. I would take a hydra over RBTs plus its 25 points cheaper. BG are a no brainer, support them with CoKs. This small of a game, DRs might do better than mine, he had 3 or four units of outriding vanilla bulls which tied up my DRs pretty well even though I wanted to ignore them.

bambamBIGILO
25-09-2008, 18:14
Im new to the DE to but I would say a large block of executioners with a character carrying the pearl should be able to hold the center against orgers. Killing blow and immune to psyc. should do some nice damage.

narrativium
25-09-2008, 18:59
bambamBIGILO: Killing blow only affects models of Unit Strength 2 or less, so Ogres are immune to it, and Gnoblars might as well ignore it as they're only T3. Immune to psych counters the Ogre fear though, and the Executioners could cause a lot of damage.

Col. Dash: your opponent needs to recheck his Ogre book, as he can't have more Scraplaunchers than units of Gnoblars - no Gnoblars, no launcher.

Enbalmed: ... I forgot about Gnoblars. I meant you're unlikely to see a ranked Ogre unit in a 1K game.

bambamBIGILO
25-09-2008, 19:26
oops my bad forgot about the unit strength:D

another note standard of slaughter on cold ones is always nice
(BSB +1 with slaughter +D3 and war banner in the unit +1, a possible +5 should win the charge)