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Templar Ben
23-09-2008, 00:46
In the UM Codex (see what I did there?:p) it mentions that RG is on a throne in a stasis field and that the field is holding him still in time as time continues around him.

My questions are as follows.
How large is such a field?
Is it a sphere or does it conform to his body or throne?
What would happen if a different object entered the stasis field (say someone attempted to take a blood sample)?

Fluffers away.

LexxBomb
23-09-2008, 03:44
1. stasis field is actually a cube... see ultramarines omnibus
2. the moment something is about to enter the field time would effectivly stop for it and it would be impossible to move it as movement requires movement through space AND time

olmsted
23-09-2008, 04:11
i wonder how many flies are stuck in time

Variel
23-09-2008, 11:58
i would imagine a few along with other various insects
imagine the sound when the field was deactivated and they all hit the ground(assuming they dont come to there senses)

TheBigBadWolf
23-09-2008, 12:05
I always imagined it as a large transparent tube like thing standing vertically.

chromedog
23-09-2008, 12:26
You can't enter the stasis field to get anything. In order to do that, you have to collapse the field first (which kinda defeats the purpose of having the field up in the first place). Flies can't get into it while it's up (and you'd at least want the area sterile for best results), but any that were inside would remain.

Larry Niven (SF writer. He's pretty good, check him out - or Daniel Keyes Moran also) has used stasis fields in his SF stories going back to the late 70s. In those, the stasis fields can be either spherical or conforming to the shape of whatever they are protecting (certain space-suits had them in case of catastrophic incidents. occupant could hit the activation stud on the chest - which would then be held down by the field.). his 'known space' stories had a mass-extermination of sentients millions of years in the past (psychic mass-suicide signal) as well.

MvS
23-09-2008, 12:28
I doubt it's possible to 'enter' the effected area of the stasis field unless it is deactivated.

EDIT

Chromedog beat me to it!

MajorWesJanson
23-09-2008, 13:07
If everything is frozen in time, the air molecules are likely not moving. Therefore they are locked into a specific pattern. Thus the stasis cube is a de facto solid. Things would just bounce off.

Inq. Veltane
23-09-2008, 13:25
If its similar to stasis grenades then outside the solid core there is a region where time is slowed but not stopped. It may not be though, as a fixed chamber could contain ways to contain the field which grenade lacks, but its something to consider.

Templar Ben
23-09-2008, 13:57
So what if you try to enter the stasis field? Is it a force field that will rebuff your attack until overwhelmed?

DarthSte
23-09-2008, 14:14
Well, I'd think that as Time was frozen within the field, then anything that breached the field would be immediately frozen in time. I guess light, not (for arguments sake) being a particle may be able to enter, so it is possible that a LASER or MASER weapon could penetrate it, where a physical weapon could not.
It's a good question though, as I guess it would be close to a time-travel paradox...

I'm going to have a good think about this one....

Frankye
23-09-2008, 14:22
a stasis field done this way must have some kind of "solid" boundaries (be it normal walls or forcefields), otherwise air molecules coming into contact with it would loose the electrons that cross the stasis boundaries. After a few centuires you'll get a solid mass of electrons lining the outside of the cube, and switching it off would mean MASSIVE radioactive discharge.
A very good way to prevent people switching it off, now that I think about it :D

DarthSte
23-09-2008, 14:28
You're right... Anything that physically touched it would be stuck in place.

Hideous Loon
23-09-2008, 15:38
The way to utilize stasis to travel through time (of course, you could only go to the future, so its usefulness is limited) is really intriguing, and something I have not pondered before.

Hmm... This bears to think about.

Kage2020
23-09-2008, 23:14
Stasis fields in the 'fluff' (caveat: at least some stasis fields; remember this is 40k and there are exceptions to even the rule that there are always exceptions to the rule, and perhaps even exceptions to that!) do not appear to be zero-tau (no time) devices. Rather, they appear to slow down time. Thus the field that surrounds the Guilliman ponce. Not only can you see into the beggar, but you can also see time progressing within the field (read: healing).

Zero-tau stasis fields? The ultimate armour. ;)

Kage

Koryphaus
24-09-2008, 00:08
But isn't the Guilliman field supposed to be time-locked? Which is why him healing is so remarkable.

PondaNagura
24-09-2008, 00:17
it's the faint hope/rumor of the pilgrims that he would heal, and that it would be a miracle. however it's a stasis field, and despite the hope of the faithful, doesn't actually make it so.

Clockwork-Knight
24-09-2008, 00:17
Isn't him healing in the stasis-field rather a wish-thinking of all Ultramarines and Macragge-inhabitants? Or was it written in word-of-god-perspective in the newest codex?

Koryphaus
24-09-2008, 01:08
I had thought it was Word of God perspective, rather than wishful thinking. I can't reall remember it that well, it's been a while since I read it.

Apocalypse
24-09-2008, 01:08
No, it's well known that he's slowly healing from his wounds... Someday he will awaken. Hopefully we never reach that day... Imagine his reaction when he sees what the imperium has come to....

Clockwork-Knight
24-09-2008, 01:23
Well known doesn't mean anything, as many things in the Imperium is only wishful-thinking. So, is it written in word-of-god-perspective or not?

PondaNagura
24-09-2008, 01:51
IA: UM
there are those that claim that the primarch's wounds are healing, but this is clearly impossible within the time-locked bubble of a stasis fields. despite this self-evident fact, many believe such tales and await the time when Guilliman will be fully recovered

WD 263 US
WD 264 UK

Apocalypse
24-09-2008, 02:23
yeah, it's in a few of the novels too... I remember reading it in the Ultramarines Omnibus...

BLZBOB
24-09-2008, 08:24
Of course the big can of worms is that if it is truly a stasis field and there is no progression of time then why can you see into it? In order for photons to make it out time must be passing albeit slowly. Unless of course it is a stasis bubble surrounded by a holo projection to make people see the fallen primarch.

MvS
24-09-2008, 10:47
Brilliant point. :)

But then then this is sci-fantasy I suppose.

Actually, this could open up some interesting ideas for how Guilliman is viewed. In most ancient shrines in our real world the item of veneration, if it's a body part of a saint or whatever, is rarely on view. It's more often than not housed in a beautiful and antique looking reliquae - often a very big one.

Maybe Guilliman's stasis bubble is contained within a gigantic 10,000 year old tabernacle (of sorts) that only Ultramarines are even allowed to step within. All the other pilgrims have to stand at a distance and look at the reliquae.

Frankye
24-09-2008, 12:30
Of course the big can of worms is that if it is truly a stasis field and there is no progression of time then why can you see into it? In order for photons to make it out time must be passing albeit slowly.I'm not totally sold on this one... there could be two main ways for a stasis field to look like, and a weird third.
- Black, if photons do came in but not out
- Mirror if they're reflected
- A fuzzy image of the interior if the photons on the boundary react with the photons outside... I imagine it could be possible for a photon to bounce off another one (stuck in the field), and thus give a decent image of the interior of the field.
Oh, well, I guess even a nuclear physic expert would be hard pressed to say how such a thing would look like :)

However the idea of the holofield is good, simple, and could explain why Guilliman is helaing, they're modifying the holofiled image with photoshop 40'000.

(either that, or time has no meaning for the warp and the emperor is healing him)

Allen
24-09-2008, 14:32
I'm not totally sold on this one... there could be two main ways for a stasis field to look like, and a weird third.
- Black, if photons do came in but not out
- Mirror if they're reflected
- A fuzzy image of the interior if the photons on the boundary react with the photons outside... I imagine it could be possible for a photon to bounce off another one (stuck in the field), and thus give a decent image of the interior of the field.
Oh, well, I guess even a nuclear physic expert would be hard pressed to say how such a thing would look like :)

However the idea of the holofield is good, simple, and could explain why Guilliman is helaing, they're modifying the holofiled image with photoshop 40'000.

(either that, or time has no meaning for the warp and the emperor is healing him)



Well, AFAIK there was only another Primarch wounded by the Anatheme Sword: Horus. He was on the verge of death, exactly like Guilliman. Then he was...well...healed. You know what happened after that.

Now, imagine that: Guilliman is really healing inside the stasis field. Someone, one day, will really switch it off. And we'll find out that the faithful Ultramarines and their legendary Primarch are not so faithful...:eek:



Ahem.
Excuse me. Wishful thinking from a marine-hater :D

PondaNagura
24-09-2008, 14:59
heh the messed up thing is that if the field was ever turned off, and he, for whatever reason did get up/healed (though highly doubt it) he couldn't do anything against the current imperium, without being label as such a traitor. he could however secede the Ultramar sector of space...and still be labeled a heretic. kind of a lose:lose:lose situation he's placed in. like a roman tragedy

Meriwether
24-09-2008, 15:40
Of course the big can of worms is that if it is truly a stasis field and there is no progression of time then why can you see into it? In order for photons to make it out time must be passing albeit slowly. Unless of course it is a stasis bubble surrounded by a holo projection to make people see the fallen primarch.

LOL. Even more fun is that, as soon as the stasis field was turned on, it would be impossible to change the momentum of whatever was inside it (as to change momentum, one must provide an Impulse, which is Force x Time... No time, no Impulse, no change in momentum.)

And therefore Mr. Stasis Field and whatever was in it would be flung off into space as the planet rotated and revolved right out from under it. :D

Meri

Lord Zarkov
24-09-2008, 16:06
You probably have to consider the entire field as one solid object and apply impulses to that.
Or build a giant track going round the entire planet and have it hovering stationary a few incehs above the ground.

LexxBomb
24-09-2008, 16:16
heh the messed up thing is that if the field was ever turned off, and he, for whatever reason did get up/healed (though highly doubt it) he couldn't do anything against the current imperium, without being label as such a traitor. he could however secede the Ultramar sector of space...and still be labeled a heretic. kind of a lose:lose:lose situation he's placed in. like a roman tragedy

well he could just demand his ProConsular position on the High Lords of Terra... after all wasn't the governing and protecting of the Imperium left up to him and Dorn.

MvS
24-09-2008, 16:37
Yes, and as far as most Imperial citizens (and troops) would be concerned, Guilliman has been worshipped as one of the Sons of God for nearly 10,000 years. His stasis hall is a place of massive pilgrimage. If he woke up whole and hearty not only am I sure that he would have a bit more strategic sense than to just start throwing over all the existing applecarts, but he would also be considered the holiest and most important walking, talking being in the galaxy - ideologically speaking at least.

Every Marine Chapter that holds Guilliman as their Primarch would probably be very tempted to drop anything and everything that they are doing in order to go and swear their lives, souls and anything else they might have to hand to their beloved Primarch, making Guilliman the most powerful single 'human' in the Imperium.

I would imagine. ;)

TheDarkDaff
24-09-2008, 21:33
An odd little aside but in the Jaq Draco series they sneak into Terra inside stasis boxes and make a point that you can still think and feel when in stasis but you are stuck on what was happening when you went into stasis. They even suggest it as a form of torture on suspected heretics.

If we expand this to include Gulliman what will happen if he wakes up completely bonkers after being locked in agony and the emotional turmoil caused by his injury at the hands of Fulgrim. I know he is supposed to be superman but that kind of mental strain could be enough to break even a primarchs mind.

The_Outsider
24-09-2008, 21:52
I would imagine. ;)

Even now the Ultramarines hold the single greatest (potential) force any marine chapter can muster.

Why? Their gene seed goes a long way and it is unknown potentially how many chapters would side with them if they were to decide that a change of management is in order.

Not to mention (IIRC) that ultramar is larger than the tau empire.

Kage2020
24-09-2008, 23:25
But isn't the Guilliman field supposed to be time-locked? Which is why him healing is so remarkable.
Ah, now you're talking miracles. The "Cassocks in Space" approach is not one that I favour, so I'll just bow out at that point. Give me my silly, superficial "sci-fi" games over "medieval fantasy in space" any time of the day. ;)

Kage

LexxBomb
25-09-2008, 06:42
An odd little aside but in the Jaq Draco series they sneak into Terra inside stasis boxes and make a point that you can still think and feel when in stasis but you are stuck on what was happening when you went into stasis. They even suggest it as a form of torture on suspected heretics.

If we expand this to include Gulliman what will happen if he wakes up completely bonkers after being locked in agony and the emotional turmoil caused by his injury at the hands of Fulgrim. I know he is supposed to be superman but that kind of mental strain could be enough to break even a primarchs mind.

your close.
the squat didn't dream and neither did the assassin
the only ones that dreamed (or were conceous {damned my bad spelling}) where Draco and his navigater and those were because they are pychers. infact the technique was used to torture heretic pychers.

MrBigMr
25-09-2008, 14:04
I the movie Spriggan an alien ship was protected by being in stasis. Nothing could penetrate the hull as it was totally locked outside of time and space. There's also some other things to play with the idea of stasis. For one, if one is locked, and then revived, how does he perceive the transition on what (s)he saw when locked in stasis, and how things are now? Imagine that from the time the field is deactivated to the time it is totally down, you could slowly see everything change, aged rapidly out of existence. Sort of like in The Timemachine when the person inside sees everything around them change.

As for Guilleman, are souls affected by things that affect time and space? Isn't the Warp pretty mixed up. I remember some thing say that Slaanesh was in existence 1000 years before it was actually born. Stuff like that. So while Guilleman's body is in stasis, his souls should be fine. So imagine that instead of being in total stasis, he would be in near absolute stasis. So his body is slowed down enough for his mind and soul to have time and fix it. Imagine sort of bullet time healing. Everything slows down but your reactions are real time. You have time to act and react to everything.

This sort of thing reminds me of some stories about teleportation/FTL travel where the subjects have to be unconscious because while to the body the jump is instant, it takes an eternity in the mind and people that come out the other end might physically be the same, but their minds have been locking inside their bodies for ages and gone insane.

Koryphaus
25-09-2008, 14:30
Well, AFAIK there was only another Primarch wounded by the Anatheme Sword: Horus. He was on the verge of death, exactly like Guilliman. Then he was...well...healed. You know what happened after that.

Pretty sure Ferrus Manus was beheaded by Fulgrim when he was using the Anatheme. He carked it completely.

Lord Zarkov
25-09-2008, 15:00
According to Fulgrim it was with the Laer sword, the Anathame was stuck in a statue at the time

FeetOfClay
25-09-2008, 19:52
Wasn't it with the sword Mannus made for him? Or was that earlier?

Lord Zarkov
26-09-2008, 22:01
I think he'd left the sword Manus back on ship as an insult. It was definitly the Laer sword though as that was how the daemon got control