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IntenseYen
26-09-2008, 20:49
So I can't resist the call of chaos - just go look at the knights; come on. Who can deny those things?!

Anyway; I play wood elves and I'm one of those types that avoids eternal guard. Therefore I don't actually have any ranked up CC units - but damn it all to hell I'm going to use Chaos Warriors in this new army.

The question is - how do I arm these guys? I would really hate to have to rip off a load of shields further down the line to replace them with 2 hand weapons.

So - do i go with shields to build anvil units, or great weapons or 2hw?

Damian
26-09-2008, 21:40
My suggestion would be units of 12, placed 6 wide, armed with halberds and shields and full commmand. This means you hit very hard but still get a good save, and if you get charged by a powerful unit then you can still go hand weapon and shield for a 2+ save.

Some people like great weapons for the additional strength but I don't find it necessary and do not like striking last when the warriors are I5.

They dn't need addtional hand weapons as they already have 2 attacks and they would be better off with the protecton of a shield, and giving them xtra hand weapons and shields becomes inefficient and pricy.

You can build lager units (15-20) with shields to use as a anvil but this is very pricy. You'd be better off using marauders in this role.

Wolfblaze
27-09-2008, 03:55
I agree with Damian, but can you have halberds and shields? i dont think chaos warriors can even have great weapons actually. I would personally go for hand weapons and shields, the better save is really worth it on such expensive troops and they have heaps of attacks anyway.

Theres nothing worse than losing 5 chaos warriors to a unit of beastmen then fleeing and getting run down, as it hapened to me cuz i went for the double hw. I did roll badly though as i only killed 2 beastmen. So my point is that with big attack, you usually win the combats but even weak units whittle you down easily.

aeon flux
27-09-2008, 06:15
I agree with Damian, but can you have halberds and shields? i dont think chaos warriors can even have great weapons actually. I would personally go for hand weapons and shields, the better save is really worth it on such expensive troops and they have heaps of attacks anyway.

Theres nothing worse than losing 5 chaos warriors to a unit of beastmen then fleeing and getting run down, as it hapened to me cuz i went for the double hw. I did roll badly though as i only killed 2 beastmen. So my point is that with big attack, you usually win the combats but even weak units whittle you down easily.

I think I'm speaking from the new army book point of view. According to the photos of the new weapons, then chaos warriors will have great weapons. Those things sure don't look like halberds. however, the chaos summary doesn't display this option. I'm sure its just an overlook.
back to tactics, I field 60+ chaos warriors, with only one regiment equipped with hand weapon and shiled. they are indeed resilient, but chaos is all about hurting in CC. I preffer 2 hand weapons.
My piece of advice is: take bigger units. true, they're pricey but survivable. Only rarely do I take a unit with less than 20 models. I am considering getting another unit for the great weapons (I have one with halberds, but rarelly use them). I don't like a weapon that only gives me a +1 S bonus on the 1st round of combat. I'm yet to fight an enemy that my warriors break in the 1st round. they come into their own in a battle of attrition.

Angelust
27-09-2008, 07:46
Um...

1) Halberds are 2-handed weapons, ergo, halberds only or shields + hand weapon only.

2) Halberds are +1 str at all times, not just the first round of combat

3) Great Weapons are available for Warriors


I've played a few games with the new Warriors of Chaos list, and all I can say is that the Marauders should NOT be overlooked. I had 20 marauders with great weapons + command + frenzy absolutely murder a bunch of lizardmen. With the new army book, you can buy this dirt cheap.



For warriors, it depends on what you need them for. I really think that in the new list, the marauders will make up the ranked up infantry units, while the warriors will end up being either 1) the anvil or 2) the hammer. As anvil, shields + mark of nurgle would fit nicely. As a hammer, 2 hand weapons + khorne really does the trick, as they now have 4 attacks base. That's just nasty any way you look at it.

Mireadur
27-09-2008, 08:40
As godlessM said, they can purchase halberds/extra HW along with the shield.

About considering the shield a waste with halberd or dual wield, think that for a mere 12 points, you are getting an extra +1save from missile and you can always switch to hand wep+shield if the extra 1Str or +1A isnt the best choice in a certain moment.

the extra attack option is as good as the others anyhow, 19 attacks with a 6 model front? ok, thats useless.

Pity they cant use spears :p

+1 S bonus on the 1st round of combat.

??? halberds grant always the +1S, those are morning stars (1 handed weapons with +1str in the 1st round).

OldMaster
27-09-2008, 09:42
Oh, why aren't there any morning stars in the new book : (

Mark of Khorne + GW + Shield pwns everything.

Damian
27-09-2008, 12:16
You can use a halberd and shield at the same time, only you only get +1 to your armour save rather than +2 in combat.

Mireadur
27-09-2008, 15:04
? halberd rules: requires 2 hands. Cant use a shield while wielding a halberd in CC sorry.

Weemo
27-09-2008, 17:52
i would consider chaos warriors like ironbreakers, dog hard, similar points but warriors are quicker, have more attacks and more equipment, i'd go for halberd and shield.

isidril93
27-09-2008, 18:55
depends on your other choice of units i suppose. if you take many warriors then a mix is good. is you take knights and horsemen then shields would be good as an anvil. if you take marauders then take 2h weapons to cause some damage.

MarcoPollo
30-09-2008, 17:46
Warriors are too slow to be an effective hammer. Any infantry is too slow unless you are empire with detatchements.

And as an anvil, marauders do better for their value.

The numbers look good with mega attacks. but the reality of wariors has been they are neither good hammers nor anvils.

Instead these troops need to work away from the battle line, and need to be multifaceted. So I think that halberds and shields are best for versatiity. Enough strength to scare armor, enough saves to handle shooting.

bork da basher
30-09-2008, 18:02
make them anvils to your knights hammer.

simply arm with shields for 2+ save in combat. id take them in units of 12 with full command in two ranks of 6 so your still throwing out 13 S4 hits with +2 CR. if you get the charge so much the better but if you get charged a 2+ save will stop most infantry in its tracks and even cavalry might get checked. if you survive til next round I5 means you'll be striking first against the majority of opponants and bumpf another bucket load of attacks.

use knights to smash the enemy on the charge and your warriors to grind away infantry blocks.

MarcoPollo
30-09-2008, 21:46
But isn't that a fair amount of points.

Also, winning at warhammer is not about isolated combats. But about threats, fleeing, flanking, and all those other things. Sure warriors are good one on one, but that rarely happens, and if you put characters into the mix, then things get that much more complicated.

Give me marauders as an anvil, and if the anvil breaks, well it is only marauders that I loose.

aeon flux
30-09-2008, 22:50
I had 20 marauders with great weapons + command + frenzy absolutely murder a bunch of lizardmen. With the new army book, you can buy this dirt cheap.


marauders can have great weapons? awesome. i thought they could only get flails. speaking of which, I equip my marauder horsmen with flails and send them charging something big & fast. I once had them charging and killing azhag the slaughterer on turn 2. I see those units as a one shot weapon.

Incoming
01-10-2008, 23:40
Hmm, 2 handweapons?
What does the new Marauder rules say, does anyone know?

LION
02-10-2008, 08:16
:evilgrin: 1O model Chaos Warrior Units with MArk Khr--Cham--Two Handweapons may be a new in option. With 21 high weapon skill attaks they will make for an interesting cheap mans hammer LION