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Randall Savage
27-09-2008, 20:48
I've never been that good at Fantasy. I hope that's just because I don't practice it often enough.

Looking at the Vampire Counts army book; one thing jumped out at me; Mannfred the Acolyte.

Looking through the models though, the new Ghouls definately stood out too.

So I want an army combining both.

I'll need some cavalry to escort Mannfred. No cavalry runs alone, so make that 2.
Should probably have another vampire with Ghoulkin.

Mannfred the Acolyte, on Barded Nightmare, with Skullstaff
270

Vampire with Ghoulkin, Lord of the Dead, Biting Blade and Black Periapt
160

11 Skeletons with Spears including full Command
119

20 Ghouls including Ghast
168

20 Ghouls including Ghast
168

4 Base Batswarm
140

6 Black Knights with Hellknight and Hellfire Banner
210

4 Blood Knights including War Banner
265

1500


Any thoughts? Be as harsh as you like.

vampires are cool!
27-09-2008, 21:03
At first glance i dont think this is a bad list. The Skellies will need to be boosted straight away and i dont really have much faith in the Bat swarms. Personnally thats points poorly spent.

Still its not a bad bang for your buck. Remember VC work best when you take a charge with your infantry and counter with your cavelry. In this case your going to have to be handy with your ghouls as their rather fragile and wont take a charge well.

Stinkfoot
27-09-2008, 21:33
First of all, I don't really like special characters. I think it kills the uniqueness of the character to have him lead your army in anything other than very large battles or scenarios. In any event, VC special characters aren't that great, and you could use the Manfred model to represent a more useful generic Vampire hero.

It is almost always a bad idea to combine skeletons and ghouls on your battle line. Pick one, and tailor your magic to boost that type of unit. Both units are viable, just not at the same time.

I've never been much of a fan of bat swarms. If dropped them and downgraded the 4 Blood knights to 6 Black knights (with champ and war banner still), you would have enough points to buy a hugely useful Varghulf or a small unit of Wraiths.

As far as your cav goes - Blood Knights are not a very good unit. A frenzied unit costing as much as they do is never going to see combat with anything even close to worthwhile. Black Knights however are a very useful unit, so if you want two units of knights I'd suggest making them both of the black variety.

On a related point, whatever type you take and whatever you choose your general to, he needs to stay with the infantry. The knights are too easy to kill and too liable to get pulled away from your relatively safe battle line. Your general to too important to risk like that.

Kalec
27-09-2008, 21:50
Mannfred is the only way to take the Skullstaff in under 2K, or on a non-lord. Definitely worth using. Knowing all the spells from the lore of vampires doesn't hurt either.

I agree to focus on either skellies or ghouls, preferably skellies due to their better AS. Just be sure to give skellies armor and a shield, not spears. Ghouls hit harder, but you have black knights for that. Blocks of 15 are enough, as they will be raised or you will lose, the extra 5 skellies or ghouls won't make a whole lot of difference, but the points will.

Blood knights are more then you need. They hit terribly hard, but a unit of black knights with a dread knight vamp will hit hard enough, gives you a bit more magic, and a lot more mobility. Nix the bats to help afford this.

Stinkfoot
27-09-2008, 22:10
Mannfred is the only way to take the Skullstaff in under 2K, or on a non-lord. Definitely worth using. Knowing all the spells from the lore of vampires doesn't hurt either.

That's not as good as it sounds though, since he doesn't have summon ghouls or lord of the dead, so he won't be able to cast spell on a single die and make the most of his staff. He can throw 4 dice a turn in most cases, which means two spells with +1 to cast. That's less effective than a single extra power die - certainly not worth 65 points. I'd keep the Skull Staff at home until you can stick it on a lord with MotBA.

Also, I would keep your ghouls (or skellies, should you choose to take them) in units of 20 as long as Manfred is leading the army. Currently you can throw 4 dice as IoN with with the benefit of Summon Ghouls, and that's not nearly enough to reliably bring 2 units of 15 up to fighting strength. You pay for your lack of magic with higher starting unit sizes.

Randall Savage
28-09-2008, 09:03
So, bearing in mind that I still want to use Mannfred

Step 1.
Drop the Bat Swarms

Step 2.
Drop the Skellies (and lord of the dead), for another unit of ghouls.

Step 3.
Drop the Blood Knights for another set of Black Knights

Step 4.
Drop the Skull Staff for the Staff of Sorcery

This would leave me with 175 points to spend on a dreadknight

Should the dreadknight be a battle standard bearer, or maybe he could take the hand of dust?

And with Mannfred and the Dreadknight in the Cavalry units, that makes the Ghoulkin the General?

VC Doke
28-09-2008, 15:38
Put some protection on your general. If he dies, you're whole army is screwed. If mannfred is you general, put a unit IN FRONT of him and let him cast from the back.

Kalec
28-09-2008, 16:05
Hand of dust would probably be best for the dread knight. Just don't send Manny with him, you need him on your main battle line. Remember that he isn't an IoN spammer like most vamps, he is a more traditional caster that can cast IoN if you need him to. If you could fit in the book of Arkhan somewhere, that help quite a bit.

Randall Savage
28-09-2008, 16:41
Okay, so the hand of dust then.

Perhaps I should run Mannfred from one of the Ghouls units, but in either case keep him on horseback for the protection, and keep him as the General?

I switch the staff for the Book of Arkhan on Mannfred, and concentrate the whole army on defending him and his unit, whether it be knights or ghouls, while keeping everything moving forward aggressively.

Anything else?

VC Doke
28-09-2008, 17:50
Play and have fun.

Try different lists and concepts out. You need to gain experience to become a competent general. Good luck!

Randall Savage
28-09-2008, 19:07
Many thanks