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Xarius
27-09-2008, 23:04
What actually happened to the moon when horus attacked? Was it destroyed or was it a scene of a major batle/boarding action?

ThunderShrike.
27-09-2008, 23:07
I imagine it could've been used as an assault base.

Like, a big floating aircraft carrier that never sinks (crashes).

PondaNagura
27-09-2008, 23:09
hmm, Luna was a defensive/launching point for Sol system naval forces. i think it was knocked out of commission during the siege of Terra. i'm sure it's been rebuilt since then.

Xarius
27-09-2008, 23:12
so did Horus destroy it or assault and capture it for the loyalists to destroy?

PondaNagura
27-09-2008, 23:27
no, he most likely knocked out all the stations and space piers...not the whole moon, that would have destabilized Terra's axis, not to mention fling all sorts of country-sized debris...making Terra quite uninhabitable.

Xarius
27-09-2008, 23:29
if he did it correctly or simply with enough guns at once he could have blown it so such small chunks that they would have burned up in the atmosphere and besides i'm sure all that wreckage wold have kept earths axis in shape.:D

Nicha11
27-09-2008, 23:29
IIRC the fleet inflicted some casualities and then was blockaded in Luna.

Xarius
27-09-2008, 23:33
Please refrain from the destroying the moon.

It looks pretty at night.


I imagine it could've been used as an assault base.

Like, a big floating aircraft carrier that never sinks (crashes).


Blowing up the moon is not funny.

Night time would then be too dark.

you really love your moon, oh well:evilgrin:

weissengel86
28-09-2008, 04:46
What was luna at the time of the heresy? Was it just a fleet base?

As for luna now isnt it a giant fleet base and gun platform?

olmsted
28-09-2008, 06:28
yes. giant guns

sulla
28-09-2008, 07:32
if he did it correctly or simply with enough guns at once he could have blown it so such small chunks that they would have burned up in the atmosphere and besides i'm sure all that wreckage wold have kept earths axis in shape.:D


Were you the scriptwriter for Armageddon by any chance? :D;):p

ryng_sting
28-09-2008, 13:13
Horus's forces overran the Luna base before the Siege of Terra, and were kicked out once it was over.

heretics bane
28-09-2008, 13:27
The defence ports did knock out a sizable portion of Horus's fleet before it was overrun eventually, then when the traitor forces retreated they abandoned it.

Im pretty sure it would have been rebuilt since it is thee main/biggest space port in the sol system

Killgore
28-09-2008, 16:23
In the huge old story written by GW about the seige of Terra it mentions that the Luna bases fell to the invaders

so destroyed? captured? it does not mention, i guess its up to the readers imagination as to the fate of the Luna defenders

Xarius
28-09-2008, 17:19
was that the big one in WD one anniversary issue.

TheRoadWarrior
28-09-2008, 17:20
i can see something like a last stand type thing, but, i'm guessing that the moon was retaken after hourus had a whooping.

Sebavin
13-10-2008, 21:21
Terra uninhabatible The pollsion is so bad that you need to wear a suit to go outside. terra is a medal there is no trees or grass or water or clouds it is one massive city that in witch some places are poisoned with radiasion.

DapperAnarchist
13-10-2008, 21:50
Ok, seriously, stop throwing out pretty much irrelevant stuff that's also pretty basic, or at least write it well.

Also, Luna was the site of various battles, just enough to stop it interfering in Horus' master stroke.

Burnthem
13-10-2008, 22:02
Terra uninhabatible The pollsion is so bad that you need to wear a suit to go outside. terra is a medal there is no trees or grass or water or clouds it is one massive city that in witch some places are poisoned with radiasion.

heheheh, worst. post. ever.

Was Luna a giant gun platform when it was captured? Because surely that would be one hell of an advantage for Horus having a moon-sized fire support platform floating around above you. Or maybe the fighting continued during the seige of the palace and the traitors didn't have time to turn the various weapons on Terra. Hmm, dunno.......

PondaNagura
13-10-2008, 22:09
weren't the laboratories where the Emperor cultivated the Primarchs situated on Luna?
i believe that Luna offered some nice fire support to Terra's defenses, but if it did fall, i don't think all of the guns would have been turned to Terra, assuming there are even any guns pointed in that direction.

Sebavin
14-10-2008, 02:13
sorry about the post I just needed two post so I can start a thread.

Xarius
14-10-2008, 16:13
sorry about the post I just needed two post so I can start a thread.

sorry mate but thats not an excuse, there is so much wrong with the quote from the spelling to the actual knowledge. how long have you honestly been doing this?

anyway it does say in numerous places abut the primarch labs being on Luna in older background but in a HH novel i'm sure it said they were under some mountains that sounded strangely like the himalayas on Terra as it wasnt a huge city back then.

Xisor
14-10-2008, 17:06
The Sisters of Silence are based on the moon. I'm sure they'd have been doing something. Also, it was the last known site of good old Battle-Captain Nathaniel Garro, Hero of Isstvan.

I wonder when he'll meet Ula (cref: HH:CV page 368?)?

heretics bane
14-10-2008, 17:20
weren't the laboratories where the Emperor cultivated the Primarchs situated on Luna?
i believe that Luna offered some nice fire support to Terra's defenses, but if it did fall, i don't think all of the guns would have been turned to Terra, assuming there are even any guns pointed in that direction.

The Luna wolves had there labs on the moon of chlonris(right one?sp?) the emporers labs are deep under the alps.

Sebavin
14-10-2008, 17:30
sorry mate but thats not an excuse, there is so much wrong with the quote from the spelling to the actual knowledge. how long have you honestly been doing this?

anyway it does say in numerous places abut the primarch labs being on Luna in older background but in a HH novel i'm sure it said they were under some mountains that sounded strangely like the himalayas on Terra as it wasnt a huge city back then.

All I ask is forgiveness. I know my post was not relavent poorly writen and wrong in many, many, many, many, many ways.

Burnthem
14-10-2008, 19:24
Does anyone know if Luna was ever properly terra-formed at any stage or was it just built upon without bothering to put in/hold onto an atmosphere?

PondaNagura
14-10-2008, 19:50
i don't think the surface ever was, since it lacks in the mass to hold the atmosphere, but i could see sublunary caverns. although there's kind of an artificial rings around it...(as ugh, john blanche depicts)...i seem to recall it still being vacuum in FotE

Helsing
15-10-2008, 04:52
Luna fell after the Sons of Horus broke Mars, Horus wanted to erase the origin of the primarchs and the Emperor's methods that created them.

weissengel86
16-10-2008, 01:08
Where does it mention the labs were on luna? Im pretty sure everything i have read says they were on earth underneath the emperors palace.

Argastes
16-10-2008, 03:05
i don't think the surface ever was, since it lacks in the mass to hold the atmosphere

Actually, this is not true; it is a common misconception that the moon lacks the gravity to hold an atmosphere, but this is not the case. For instance, Saturn's moon of Titan has LESS gravity than our own moon (0.14 g on Titan vs. 0.16 g on Luna) but has an atmosphere that is denser, and exerts a greater atmospheric pressure, than Earth's atmosphere. An astronomical body can maintain an atmosphere as long as the molecular velocity of it's constituent gases is less than the body's escape velocity, so even a very tiny body could retain an atmosphere if the molecules in that atmosphere were moving slowly enough (so obviously, the smaller a body is, the colder it's atmosphere must be in order to be retained).

IIRC, the average molecular velocity in Earth's atmosphere is several hundred meters per second; certainly less than 1000 m/s. And Luna's escape velocity is about 2400 m/s. So if someone went to the trouble of importing several hundred trillion tons of oxygen and nitrogen to Luna, then yes, it could maintain that atmosphere for quite a long time (in human terms). There would be slow gas loss to space due to various factors, but it would take many thousands of years for this to be noticeable. This is more than slow enough that it would be possible to keep the lunar atmosphere "topped up" with continuous imports of (relatively) small quantities of new gas, to replace the gas being lost into space. It's impractical and there probably isn't that much of a good reason to do it (not that this ever stops anyone in the 40K universe), but it's certainly theoretically possible to add a breathable atmosphere to the moon.

Mind you, I'm not saying that the moon is/was terraformed in 40K. I don't know whether or not this is the case; to the best of my knowledge, the fluff has never told us one way or the other. Personally, despite the theoretical possibility of giving Luna an atmosphere, I kind of like the idea of the 40K moon being left airless, and serving as a vast military base.

Wolfblade670
16-10-2008, 06:42
Actually, I remember reading in an old GW article about power armour development of battles fought on Luna during the Techno-Barbarian Wars and the early years of the Great Crusade. The article mentioned that initial power armour development didn't focus on self containment as the War of Unification was fought entirely on Earth and Luna, which both had breathable atmosphere at the time. Luna was stated as having been terraformed during the DAoT. Though I'm not sure of any mention of it afterwards, I beleive Luna's atmosphere was destroyed by Horus' fleet during the Battle of Terra, much like Terra's oceans.

imperial_scholar
16-10-2008, 17:58
Does anyone know if Luna was ever properly terra-formed at any stage or was it just built upon without bothering to put in/hold onto an atmosphere?
I haven't read anything to indicate terra was ever 'terra-formed'. Though it would be possible. I imagine that since orbital defense lasers are less effective as it passes through an atmosphere, they wouldn't want any atmosphere.

Actually, this is not true; it is a common misconception that the moon lacks the gravity to hold an atmosphere, but this is not the case.

Personally, despite the theoretical possibility of giving Luna an atmosphere, I kind of like the idea of the 40K moon being left airless, and serving as a vast military base.
From what I know of 'science' (real science not handwavium) the Moon (Luna) was made from a young molten earth. For a few million years (short time I know) the moon had its own oceans and molten lava coursing on the surface. However, for some reason the moons atmosphere didn't keep. Either way, an atmosphere just makes life more difficult everytime a meteor would slam into it (happens a lot). Probably why the moon doesn't have an atmosphere. A huge meteor could have collided with it blasting away its atmosphere.

Actually, I remember reading in an old GW article about power armour development of battles fought on Luna during the Techno-Barbarian Wars and the early years of the Great Crusade. The article mentioned that initial power armour development didn't focus on self containment as the War of Unification was fought entirely on Earth and Luna, which both had breathable atmosphere at the time. Luna was stated as having been terraformed during the DAoT. Though I'm not sure of any mention of it afterwards, I beleive Luna's atmosphere was destroyed by Horus' fleet during the Battle of Terra, much like Terra's oceans.
The horus heresy books said there was no atmosphere on the moon at the time. Like I said above, that it would be counter productive to a defense station if it had an atmosphere.

I'd like to read the article u mentioned. Is it online? For the most part though, I never heard anything about fighting on the moon... even the early unification wars. Though, I can't discount that you could be correct.



Luna During the HH was the same moon we have today except big guns and fortress's on it. From what I understand they just 'contained' the moon. They probably didn't use any of their ground forces to take it as they needed what they had for the siege. If there was fighting on Luna it would be really bad as the sisters of silence (thats where their homebase is) store unstable pyskers. If a Heretic force came through and started releasing said Pyskers it would be very nasty I am sure.

Finnith
16-10-2008, 18:00
weren't the laboratories where the Emperor cultivated the Primarchs situated on Luna?
i believe that Luna offered some nice fire support to Terra's defenses, but if it did fall, i don't think all of the guns would have been turned to Terra, assuming there are even any guns pointed in that direction.

I believe all the work on the primarches was done on earth. From what I remember the Emperor had to conquer earth, start from scratch on getting off the planet, reconquer/colonize the moon, then finally get in contact with mars.

The moon seems to have been at least partially hollowed out through mining (golden age) then used as the sol system fleet base by the emperor by the time of the heresy.

PondaNagura
16-10-2008, 18:30
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Primarch_Project
bah, lexicanum pulled a wiki. where someone just sourced it without a proper read through. this is the first time i've seen this happen on that site.

Argastes
16-10-2008, 20:10
From what I know of 'science' (real science not handwavium) the Moon (Luna) was made from a young molten earth. For a few million years (short time I know) the moon had its own oceans and molten lava coursing on the surface. However, for some reason the moons atmosphere didn't keep.

Yes, that's the prevailing hypothesis about where the moon came from (although IIRC the magma ocean phase lasted much less than a few million years). I've never actually read anything one way or the other about the lunar atmosphere following the Theian impact, but if there was one, then I would guess that the reason it "didn't keep" is exactly the reason I mentioned above: Loss of gas to solar wind and other factors. This does happen, and as I said above, it would result in the slow depletion of a manmade lunar atmosphere, requiring that such an atmosphere be replenished at intervals. But there is nothing about the moon that makes it unable to maintain a perfectly breathable atmosphere for periods of time that are, by human standards, very long. The eventual loss of it's post-impact atmosphere doesn't really tell us anything about the feasibility of giving it a manmade atmosphere.


Either way, an atmosphere just makes life more difficult everytime a meteor would slam into it (happens a lot). Probably why the moon doesn't have an atmosphere. A huge meteor could have collided with it blasting away its atmosphere.

Well, it's not really possible for a meteor/comet impact to remove a body's atmosphere and leave it airless, for two reasons. Firstly, the only portion of the atmosphere that such an impact can actually "blow away" is the portion that's above the horizon as seen from the impact point, which will only be a small fraction of the total atmosphere; the rest of the atmosphere will stay no matter how big the impact is. Secondly, any such impact is going to create significant outgassing of it's own, which enters the atmosphere. So even if a planet was subject to such intense meteoric bombardment that all of it's original atmosphere was blown into space, it would not then be airless; it would still have a quite substantial atmosphere, but that atmosphere would be composed of the gases that were created and released by all those impacts. So massive meteor impacts can change a planet's atmosphere, but not remove it.

And as for a lunar atmosphere making life more difficult every time a meteor slams into it... that's not true of the Earth (in fact, our atmosphere protects us from huge numbers of meteors) so it wouldn't be true of the moon either. A lunar atmosphere would actually make life easier with respect to meteors, just as it does on Earth. Remember that the moon and Earth actually receive the same intensity of meteor bombardment (they are so close together that it couldn't really be otherwise), it's just that the Earth's atmosphere prevents most of it from ever reaching the surface.