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logan054
27-09-2008, 23:22
Characters

Exalted champion of Chaos
- Mark of Khorne
- Shield
- Juggernaught of Khorne
- Chaos Runesword
Total 230pts

Exalted champion of Chaos
- Great Weapon
- Fury of the Blood God
Total 142pts

Sorcerer
- Black Tongue (will try this one out :) )
Total 135pts

Core

11 Warriors of Chaos
- Fullcommand
- Halberds
- Shields
- Banner of Rage
Total 252pts

24 Marauders of Chaos
- Fullcommand
- Mark of Khorne
- Great weapons
Total 166pts

6 Marauder Horsemen
- Flails
- Musician
Total 96pts

5 Chaos Hounds
Total 30pts

5 Chaos Hounds
Total 30pts

5 Chaos Hounds
Total 30pts

Special

12 Chosen warriors
- Mark of Khorne
- Fullcommand
- Great Weapons
- Collar of Khorne
Total 345pts

5 Knights of Chaos
- Mark of Khorne
- Musician & Champion
Total 260pts

Rare

2 Chaos Spawn
- Mark of Khorne
Total 150pts

Chaos Warshrine
Total 130pts

Army Total 1997pts

Well my first attempt with the new list, i cant say im actually all that impressed with it, i really dont see the point in the chaos rewards, most of them dire, didnt think much of the items section in general, just another army that seemed more geered to magic users, ahh well.

Sidorio
28-09-2008, 01:27
List looks interesting, where did you get the new rules for them though?

logan054
28-09-2008, 01:36
well there was a summary of them posted on cotec with all the stats, prices and what not

Einholt
28-09-2008, 02:31
That was very similar to my first draft Logan heres the problems I ran into.

Mark of Nurgle on Marauders makes them SO much better.
Mark of Slaanesh on Marauder Horsemen same thing.

And quite possibly my worst realization, your unit with banner of rage is spending 30 points just to say they are Khorne. The banner grants frenzy and makes it permanent for 35 points. Not only that but theres no requirement for marks on characters and units so you don't even have to mark the unit khorne to make your champions join it. That means theres really no point in marking the warriors Khorne if you are gonna give them the banner and you could instead take the 30 points and give them mark of Nurgle for extra toughness and resilience.

This particularly pissed me off as I've come to realize no matter what you do with Khorne, there is a way to replicated by any other power and improve upon it without paying more then like 30 points then we would.

Also taking Warhsrine or something is so much better to mark tzeentch then khorne.

And all this stems from the fact that the items that give Khorne an advantage are freely obtainable by any other power and our mark has been nerfed to remove the Dispel die so theres no incentive to run khorne for magic defense, and on top of that restrictions for army composition and unit joining are gone so therefore once again playing khorne results in basically shooting yourself in the foot. It is a sad sad day on November 1.

Kalec
28-09-2008, 04:36
The new book isn't meant to work with mono-god armies, we all know this. Expecting an army with everything marked Khorne to work well is unreasonable. Unfortunate, but thats the way it is.

Fortunately, some things are still best with the Blood God's seal of approval. Naked GW marauders get a huge boost from frenzy, and khornate chariots are pretty damn deadly too. It just isn't a good idea to slap it on everything and everything.

Also, to get the most out of your war alter, dragon ogres or ogres are a must. Their champs are better then most heroes in combat, and will quickly rack up gifts. If one of them rolls boxcars, the game is practically yours.

logan054
28-09-2008, 08:38
Well god worked fine with the WD list, i cant see how that has changed, while multigod is better you could argue that a empire gunline is better than is better than a infantry horde, does this mean we should all use empire gunlines? Bascially i should run out and buy lots of models to paint in alternate gods because GW has decided my army should work in a totally different way?

The warshrine isnt marked, hence why its 130pts, MoK is a total waste on it, as for MoN, it geneally so much better on anything you put it on, trust me i know, Khorne got shafted compared to HoC list, nothing i can do about this, really if i was trying the most competitive list i could find then i wouldnt even have infantry.

The Red Scourge
28-09-2008, 09:53
Expect to see a lot marauder horsemen worshiping khorne.

Can't really decide whether to give them flails or shield, light armor and spears :)

logan054
28-09-2008, 10:07
why would you want frenzied light cavalry? nurgle yes, not Khorne, thats just daft, the obvious choice for marauder horsemen if you want Khorne is flails, 12 strength 5 attacks and 6 strength 4 attacks is always good fun :)

Weemo
28-09-2008, 10:44
Always mark the warshrine tzeentch, i mean a 4+ ward is good, but a three plus is fantastic.

I think mono-god wont really work much anymore, but in saying that marauder horsemen with mark of slaanesh and warriors with mark of khorne sounds deadly. it seems that there is much more room for choice in the new book, so there is much more scope for different armies (no more 13pd tzeentch armies) of course this has downsides, eg if a player wanted a pure khorne army theyd be pretty nerfed in the new rules, but undivided is making a comeback in nov 1.

anyway on topic my changes would be:

- mark the shrine (tzeentch preferably)

- drop adhw from warriors they have enough attcks as it is, a shield would go nicely here, or a halberd.

- mark the chosen or warriors nurgle and give them the banner, just to make them harder.

- mark the maraduer horsemen either slaanesh or nurgle.

thats just me two cents hope it helps.

logan054
28-09-2008, 13:51
So how is any different to running a mono god list with the WD list accept

1)better magic items
2)Better troop choices
3)More troop choices
4)More access to magic resistance

Really mono god is alot more viable than with the WD list, i actually dont remember a single WD list that had comments even remotely along these lines. Honestly this is really comparable to telling someone not to use a Goblin army just because orcs are better. The long and the short is i have chosen a theme which is restrictive.

GodlessM
28-09-2008, 14:15
Guys, yea the book is geared toward multi God lists, but mono God can certainly be done. Offensive magic won't do much to this list 'cause of all the MR. VC will the main problem, but every army suffers from VC.


Expect to see a lot marauder horsemen worshiping khorne.

Can't really decide whether to give them flails or shield, light armor and spears :)


Oh you should be doing stand ups with that one.

Manny Xero
28-09-2008, 15:22
I'm a Tzeentch follower so I dislike and frankly can not comprehend your love for Khorne. However, I much prefer your devotion to the lip service these others give to the gods. Please read this: He wants a Khorne themed army, not the best list that a power gamer can come up with.

That being said I am wondering if the Chosen would preform better as a smaller unit that works as a hammer. 3A@6S (4A or 7S if the EotG is favourable) would be an unholy kill happy unit befitting the god of blood. If you go that route I would suggest dropping the banner and allocating all those saved points into another group of marauders which can function as the anvil.

OldMaster
28-09-2008, 15:35
Also, in terms of Fluff. is it absolutely impossible to have the benefit of one mark, but choosing another? I mean, like, having the Mark Of Khorne and being so good at dodging and fighting that enemies gain the same penalties as with the Mark of Nurgle? What about being fearless (Slaanesh) or being extremely tough and immune to pain (Tzeentch)?

I think it's brilliantly possible.

logan054
28-09-2008, 15:53
or what about a level 4 wizards who really like a warrior priest of Khorne, i mean slap him in a unit with banner rage and hey he has frenzy, give him a runesword and he has plenty of killing power!

Please, thats just a work around, i had thought of the "smelly gits" as Khorne marauder horsemen, then i realized i was just going down the "waac" route and trying to kid myself i was playing a fluffy army. I personally base my army on the 5th ed fluff because its far better, of course doing this creates other problems because while my model has a MoK painted on the banner it really has the MoN, not very wysiwyg is it

Kalec
28-09-2008, 16:01
Enjoy your frenzied idiots chasing dire wolves all game then. And your sorcerer, very khornate as well.

logan054
28-09-2008, 16:10
Im sure they will ;) thanks for you imput Kalec, it was much valued, even the very mature final responce, thankyou for that, i guess you dont like people listening to you, im the same really, i mean i post a list say "Khorne list" and just seems like people just dont read/listen/understand.

Manny Xero
28-09-2008, 21:06
I was reading up on alternate ways to screw with magic without resorting to a spell caddy. There are a few gifts and items that seem very Khornate but not as efficient as a scroll caddy. The Black Tongue can force a miscast and Infernal Puppet can make sure it is a painful experience. I'm thinking that the list of gifts is not complete yet (as it seems rather short) but there are some choices in there even still.

logan054
28-09-2008, 23:18
I think the only problem with black tongue is its one use only and have have to take a wound (thus instantly giving away VPs), infernal puppet is rather nice but then you need two wizards, a staff of sorcery is always a option as well i guess :)

Manny Xero
29-09-2008, 03:47
I know the "Infernal Tongue" combo is a one use only and it will cause you to give up VP but you are guarenteed a return on your investment as soon as they fail to cast a spell.

But wait there is more. If they fail to cast a spell that you never want to deal with again you can use this combo to shut the wizard up forever! The miscast table has two results that you ideally want. Snake Eyes, which will automatically remove the wizard from the battle (more than returning the VP of the wound you sacrificed) and more than likely killing many of the units in the unit the wizard was in. The other ideal result would be 10-11, which causes the wizard to loose a level and the spell he or she was trying to cast (on top of a strength 8 hit to the dome).

These two results are 7 apart which means that a roll of 6 (14% of the time) is the only way that you can not alter the result of a miscast to one of these results.

:skull:36% of the time you are guaranteed to be able to push the roll to 2 or 10-11 (they hit the result you want or you modify the result by one.)

:chrome:22% of the time you need to modify the number by 2 in order to curse the wizard to his doom. Which is a 2/3 chance; therefore 15% you get what you want.

:evilgrin:25% of the time they hit a 7 or a 5 and you need to get the full D3 to make them truly suffer and that will only work out for you 8% of the time.

What is the final result? Anytime they fail to cast a critical spell you can choose to use the black tongue to force them to miscast. Anytime they miscast, (not just when you use the tongue) you have a 59% chance of making sure they never cast that spell again.

Remember though "Math-hammer" can only illustrate what can happen. This combo is good because you can sometimes get away without using the Black Tongue at all. By the same token it's bad because you might not get a chance to use the Black Tongue or you may only get to use it against inconsequential spells.

One last thing. Are either of those items Arcane or Sorcerer only? I'm referring to Godless M's Summary for my info so I don't know. If they are not you could drop the scroll caddy altogether or keep him as a bonus. The great thin is that if you could put these on your Exalted Champs and nobody would see it coming until they got used to the WoC list.

Weemo
29-09-2008, 07:13
woah ok, i see you definately want a khorne list. Most of the people here are just trying to make it a better list, when you dont write anything about how fluffy or powerful you want the list to be, most people will assume you want to make it as good as you can. Sorry for trying to help.

logan054
29-09-2008, 09:06
@Manny Xero - I beg you pardon, only Infernal puppet is a arcane item, black tongue is a tailsman, i dont know if i like the idea however of slapping black tongue on a combat character however, the only one i could get away putting it one is the hero on foot who however would have to drop the magic resistance in order to take it (As you cant take magic items, pretty lame hey...). Also you have to take into account the forced challenge rule, taking that item on a combat hero with no wardsave just sounds like a mistaking waiting to happen.

I could however see black tongue being very handy vs VC :)

@Weemo - Well its my own fault i should have been more clear, i just assumed people would come to conclusion based on the titles, ahh well no biggy, sorry i was just just annoyed with particular poster, sorry if that came across otherwise. One final thought however, seem to recall that everyone said that mono god would still be very valid with the new book (in the rumour topics), Its abit weird that as soon as you post one you told not to do it.

yoshimo
29-09-2008, 12:11
I found this chart clears up the whole god issue a lot in terms of army effectiveness ;)

Odin
29-09-2008, 13:06
The new book isn't meant to work with mono-god armies, we all know this. Expecting an army with everything marked Khorne to work well is unreasonable. Unfortunate, but thats the way it is.

It's not at all unreasonable to expect it, just unrealistic, given GWs direction with Chaos (i.e. down the drain).

Still, looks like a decent enough list. Shame the sorcerer is necessary, but you're asking for trouble if you don't take at least one.

logan054
29-09-2008, 13:17
I found this chart clears up the whole god issue a lot in terms of army effectiveness ;)

Just to clear things up no one has said that mono gods are more effective than mixing gods, it pretty shocking actually how many people are against mono god armies. Maybe thats the problem with warhammer, people who dont conform should be hunted down and shoot like a dog!:wtf:


It's not at all unreasonable to expect it, just unrealistic, given GWs direction with Chaos (i.e. down the drain).

Still, looks like a decent enough list. Shame the sorcerer is necessary, but you're asking for trouble if you don't take at least one.
chaos down the drain? not at all.. Its not like the army list is designed in such away that has little regard to play style but rather what would generate the most sales...