PDA

View Full Version : Ciaphas Cain



d4m0s4n
12-11-2005, 12:53
If you were to give Cain a statline and special abilities what would it be?

I don't see him as being a combat god so a standard Commisar statline would probably be good. It would be his special abilities that would make him fun to play I think.

sulla
12-11-2005, 18:00
What special abilities do you see him having? To me he is not like other BL characters who cut through swathes of foes or have hidden psychic powers of a daemon inside them. he is just a regular joe who is a little more 'real' than the standard commisar in the fluff.

Rik Valdis
12-11-2005, 18:24
He would give a morale advantage to all IG troops on the battlefield because of his incredible reputation, beyond that i dont think he'd do all that much

Niibl
12-11-2005, 18:42
He would allways have to deploy as far away from the opponent's deploymentzone as possible while his opponent's reserves would allways have to appear quite close to him ;)

ML Kurze
12-11-2005, 18:44
He'll maybe have the rule "choose the lesser evil". If there's a daemon/monstress creature/titan/etc. on the battlefield, he'll assault the nearest enemy unit with his special broken chairleg close combat weapon.
;)

And, of course, he wouldn't shoot his boys and would never use the it's for your own good rule. He probably stays as far away from psykers as he can.

d4m0s4n
12-11-2005, 23:29
I was thinking of "Always finds cover" -- when a squad is assaulted the Cain model would be removed to the nearest thing providing a cover save.

Along the lines of Niibl's post I'd allow Cain to redeploy at the end of setup. He must redeploy to some form of cover behind his own lines. Or attach himself to the overall command group.

Perhaps Cain's presence would simply allow a LD reroll regardless of situation. Being a Hero of the Imperium and all.

Kensai X
13-11-2005, 16:10
Hmmm well, I'd say make sure he couldn't be targeted like an independant character, make sure to give a big Ld boost to an army, and perhaps to show his abilities with a chainsword perhaps give him either re-roll to wound or rending...

Xhalax
13-11-2005, 17:26
He's quite a good swordsman too. Although he's never really given much of a chance to prove it.

boogle
13-11-2005, 18:05
You would need to have Jurgen there too, who would no doubt either give him a 2+ Psychic Save of disallow him to be affected by Psychic powers, plus they would both be fearless somewhat

The Judge
13-11-2005, 18:20
I'd make him an absolute combat monster - the Ciaphas Cain as depicted by the history-recorders, not the real-life commissar. Then when playing a game, all sorts of heroic deeds can be achieved!

d4m0s4n
13-11-2005, 20:27
I like that Judge.

Xhalax
14-11-2005, 20:47
That would me interesting Judge.

Although after reading the books, I just can't buy it.

Dyrnwyn
14-11-2005, 23:06
Ciaphas Cain: WS6, BS4, S3, T3, W2, I5, A4, Ld10, Sv4+
Cain is armed with a laspistol and chainsword. The +1 attack for two CC weapons is already included in his profile.

Special Rules:
Independent Character - as per all rules for ICs in the BGB, with the addition that Cain may start the game attached to any squad.
Skilled Duelist - Cain may choose to give up some or all of his attacks to parry attacks against him. Declare the use of this ability after attacks have been assigned but before any rolls are made. For each attack Cain give up, reduce the opponent's attacks by one. This may not reduce an opponent to zero attacks. This skill may not be used in conjuction with Jurgen's Loyal Helper ability.
Self-interest - Commissar Cain may choose to redeploy to a safer position after all units (but not infiltrators) have deployed. This affects only himself and Jurgen, not any squad he is attached to.
Hero of the Imperium - Once per turn, any squad joined by Cain can choose to ignore the results of a single Morale test.
Commissar's Aide - Cain always begins play with Jurgen accompanying him.

Jurgen: WS3, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I3, A1, Ld7, Sv4+
Jurgen is armed with a meltagun
Special Rules:
Pariah - Psychic powers are nullified in a 6 inch radius around Jurgen on a roll of a 2+. Even passive powers such as Synapse are affected by this, but a new roll must be made each turn for constant powers such as Synapse, and it only creates a hole in the power's area of effect, rather than nullifying the power entirely. Psykers assaulting Jurgen or his unit must pass a Ld check at -1 or drop to I1 with -1 Attack, to a minimum of 1.
Loyal Helper - In close combat, if Jurgen is not in base contact with an enemy model, Cain may give up all of his attacks to back away and allow Jurgen to shoot at an enemy engaged with Cain. This attack occurs at I3 and replaces Jurgen's CC attack. This ability only fuctions on models that have assigned some or all of thier attacks to Cain.
Unobtrusive - Jurgen's presence does not remove Cain's IC status.

I may have gone overboard, as looking back, they've got a alot of special abilities. Heck, looking back on it, Jurgen's I3 shooting attack is essentially an I3 powerfist. Maybe the points cost on this duo would balance it out, but I have no idea what points cost I'd give them. So...discuss.

Inquisitor Maul
14-11-2005, 23:29
Those were damn good actualy :D

Though, you might want to change "Pariah" to "untouchable" or "blank"

x-esiv-4c
14-11-2005, 23:30
W:6 is a tad bit high no?

Dyrnwyn
15-11-2005, 00:35
Well, he's fought Genestealers in CC before, and he's managed to survive more than one encounter. I figured they'd be hitting each other on 4+. If there's a lower WS that allows this, feel free to change it. I'm pretty unfamiliar with most Assault rules, since I'm a Tau player, so all I need to know is "You hit me on threes. I hit you on 5's unless I'm lucky."

Xhalax
15-11-2005, 11:57
Nice rules!

And I especially like the bit with Jurgen and his effect on Synapse. You're obviously a fan of the books.

Can't really think of anything to add or should be chanced at the moment. Though if I were in your position I would have gone overboard with the special abilities...such as giving Jurgen some sort of toxic miasma to deal with his smell and such.

Inquisitor Maul
15-11-2005, 12:02
So, when do we get to see Broklaw, Karsteen and Sulla? :p

d4m0s4n
15-11-2005, 12:03
...such as giving Jurgen some sort of toxic miasma to deal with his smell and such.

Is it his smell that rubs people the wrong way or his Null status?

I'd modify Jurgen with a "Right Tool for the Job" entry that lets him take any non-heavy weapon in the typical Imperial list. Cain mentions Jurgen's ability to aquire just about anything....

You also forgot the vehicle entry. ;)

Hoshi No Koe
15-11-2005, 12:49
I'd give him regular commissar stats with the following rules.

Inspirational presence:
Guard units within 12" may re-roll Ld tests.

always at the wrong place at the wrong time:
After deployment , Cain and a squad he's atttached to can redeploy after all other units have been deployed. (It represents Cain always assigning himself a task in which he thinks he'll have the easiest time but it ending up as the spot where the hardest fighting is done).

shines at the most deseperate moments:
Cain can switch places with a model in a squad he has joined (Like Drazhar). When fighting on his own or when the squad he's joined is below 50% strength Cain gets +1 to all his stats except his wound and Ld stats.

RampagingRavener
15-11-2005, 21:19
Ciaphas Cain:

WS: 6
BS: 4
S: 3
T: 3
W: 2
I: 4
A: 3+1
Ld: 10
Sv: 4+/4+

Weapons and Equipment: Cain is armed with a battered Laspistol and a Chainsword (cc weapon). He wears carapace armour. He counts as being equiped with a trademark item.

Special rules:
Independant Character.

Absurd luck: Through a mixture of luck and brilliance, Cain always seems to pull through any mission. To represent this, he has a special 4+ save that he may make in addition to any normal save he would get. This special save is not affected by any modifiers. (eg, if Cain was unlucky enough to be fighitng a C'tan, he would still get his special save-he's good at ducking!).

Master Swordsman: Cain is an incredibally talented swordsman, and is able to outfight almost any opponent. Cain's Chainsword counts as being a Heavy CC weapon (limits saves to 4+) , and opponents will never hit him on better than a 4+.

Great Hero: Though he talks it down, Cain is prone to feats of intense bravery, and this inspires the men around him. He is Fearless in Close Combat (Not against shooting though). Any squads with a model within 6" of him are just plain Fearless.

Jurgen: Cain is always followed by his aide Jurgen. They must always remain within 2" of each other, and Jurgen will not compromise his status as an Independant Character.

Jurgun:

WS: 3
BS: 4
S: 3
T: 3
W: 2
I: 3
A: 1
Ld: 10
Sv: 4+.

Weapons and equipment: Jurgen is armed with a meltagun and wears carapace armour.

Special Rules:
Blank: Any psychic powers (and I mean ANY) cast within 6" of jurgen or affect anything within 6" of him (such as part of a Eldritch Storm template) will automaticly be cancelled out. Psykers and Daemons must make a moral check if they want to move within 6" of Jurgen, or will count as pinned or must check for Instability. If Jurgen moves within 6" of a Psyker orDaemon, they must make a moral/Instability check as well.

Aide: Being around Cain seems to have rubbed of on Jurgen-like his boss, he always seems to pull through. While Cain is alive, Jurgen will benefit from the Cain's "Absurd Luck" rule, as well as being fearless in CC.

Points: 350 for the pair?
Army: May be taken as a special character in an Imperial Gaurd army of 1500 points or more.

Xhalax
17-11-2005, 14:50
Jurgen only has flak armour on.....so why the 4+ save?

And the toxic miasma was for the smell.

Sai-Lauren
17-11-2005, 16:19
I'd give him regular commissar stats with the following rules.

Inspirational presence:
Guard units within 12" may re-roll Ld tests.

always at the wrong place at the wrong time:
After deployment , Cain and a squad he's atttached to can redeploy after all other units have been deployed. (It represents Cain always assigning himself a task in which he thinks he'll have the easiest time but it ending up as the spot where the hardest fighting is done).

shines at the most deseperate moments:
Cain can switch places with a model in a squad he has joined (Like Drazhar). When fighting on his own or when the squad he's joined is below 50% strength Cain gets +1 to all his stats except his wound and Ld stats.
Inspirational presence ok, but I'd actually add the Callidus' "Word In Your Ear" ability that acts on him and Jurgen (plus any squad he accompanies) - but rolling a dice to determine which player can move him, representing fate putting him somewhere he probably doesn't want to be.

ML Kurze
17-11-2005, 16:52
Jurgen only has flak armour on.....so why the 4+ save.
Because he carries carapace I believe, after the first book for some extra protection. At least, Caine does, so I assume Jurgen does to. Or maybe the smell scares the bullets away. :rolleyes:

RampagingRavener
17-11-2005, 20:18
Yea, IIRC Jurgen gets Carapace armour when he and Cain decend into the Tunnels.

Kensai X
17-11-2005, 22:11
350 pts... Wow...

As much as I think the rules do him justice their's no way I'm gonna pay for some special character at that price in a IG army... That's more expensive then most tanks...

Inquisitor Maul
17-11-2005, 22:34
No character in the Imperial Guard is more expensive then 150 so why 350? :wtf:

d4m0s4n
18-11-2005, 14:58
How about adding "Advance to the Rear" which allows Cain and Jurgen the ability to Fall Back to a friendly squad?

Anywho. 350 points is a bit high.

I'd also allow an Inquistorial force to take him as well. He's been known to work with the =][= now and then.

Xhalax
19-11-2005, 00:13
So far, the only think I've found that has an mention of armour in relation to Jurgen (Cain definitely has carapace armour..he wear it under his great coat) is in For the Emperor and all that says is that he's wearing a carapace JACKET.

Nothing about what may or may not be underneath

Though I'd have Jurgen's kit being the same as the rest of the Vahallan's rather than Cain's since he is a Guardsman...and that would be flak armour rather than carapace. Standard issue rather than anything special. Though i am aware that sometime they give troops carapace armour.

But this is getting nit-picky. So I'll step back and say that there's a fair chance he has the armour to go with the jacket...though they say Jurgen is an odd shape, so a jacket that's a bit bigger than most might fit him better under the circumstances, without the armour.

but as I said before, I just expect Jurgen to be equiped as all the other Guardsmen are. He just managed to filch a Melta from somewhere.....only he knows where.

Rik Valdis
19-11-2005, 17:59
Jurgen has a talent for nicking stuff, that was mentioned when he got the first melta so i see no reason why he couldnt have 'aquired' some carapce armour, there is no realevidence either way. Therefore I would be inclined to give him carapace simply so that both he and Cain had the same armour save, makes things easier. It doesnt really matter that much though.

VonVilkee13
22-11-2005, 19:44
As far as jurgen goes let him keep the carapace it keeps things simpler with both jurgen and Ciaphas having the same save it allows cain to hide behind jurgen from time to time ealier posts had an idea for Jurgen to use his melta in combat and it does happen all the time so much so that Ciaphas counts on it I'd say If Ciaphas gives up at least on attack Jurgen can use his weapon to shoot Cain opponant similar in rules to a Servo arm Maybe just give Ciaphas a servo arm to represent this.

350 pts is way to high I'd say 200-225 for the pair and he always joins a squad (he needs bodies to take fire for him :angel:)