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gortexgunnerson
29-09-2008, 12:59
Hi

After a run of artillery armies in recent tournments I was looking for a bit of a change so have gone for a no artillery empire army. My normal preferance is against cavalry, not sure why just have always liked my units. Think its a mind set from 15+ years of Dwarfs. So my list is below; key issues I am unsure about are;

1) Has the army enough punch, with no artillery and no good characters is the list going to bounce off any army with a decent battle line?

2) Magical offence/defence, It seems like their has been a good investment of points of the priest and lv 2 but no strong force for attack or defence? I dont want to bring more magic in as is against the idea I have in my mind for the army so should In give up on offence and play the Lv1 with the rod of power and change Alfred's casket to the seal that makes the unit immune to fear/terror to assist with issue 3.

3) Is the whole army going to run like babies when playing deamons/undead/WE everyone else in the world that now seems to cause fear with every unit! I have tried to build large units and detachments (i.e. if they run no panic on anything else) to limit effect of this risk but what has been others experiance with empire and leadership!

4) Last 100 points, at the moment I have 2 units of 5 flags in the list, I was going to use these as little disruption units relying on the unbreakable element to cause difficulties in wiping them out or at least taking time to do so as wont run off. But is this a waste, would 10 swordmen + 5 archers detach or a cannon/mortor be a better idea (although cannon/mortor would break the idea, and when you have 1 you might as well have 3 lol)


1 Priest General 90
Alfred's casket of sorcerory Catchs spell on 4+. (12") 35
Sigil of sigmar MR 1 15
Heavy Armour 4
Shield 2
Barded Warhouse 14

1 Battle Standard Bearer 75
Griffon Banner 55
Barder Warhorse 14
Full Plate Armour 8

1 Lv 2 Wizard 100
Rod of Power Store up to 3 dice per turn 30
Horse 10

Core

10 Handgunners 80
5 detach Handgunners 40
5 detach Handgunners 40

23 Swordsmen 138
Full Command 25
10 detach swordsmen 60
10 detach swordsmen 60

5 Flaggelents 50

25 Free company 125
Muscian 4

Special

21 Greatswords 210
Full command 30
10 detach swordsmen 60
10 detach swordsmen 60

Rare

5 Flaggelents 50

Total points 1484, last points to be resolved..

Lastly, when putting cavalry models in infantry I am right in thinking that they displace 2 infantry models?

Lordsaradain
29-09-2008, 15:58
Hi

Lastly, when putting cavalry models in infantry I am right in thinking that they displace 2 infantry models?

Yes I'm pretty sure that's how its played.

I'd put all the flagellants into one unit to enable you to make some use of their unbreakability. 5 models with Ws2, T3 and no save will easily be run down on the charge.

Alternatively, you could trade them for 10 Scouts.

Kalec
29-09-2008, 23:49
Swap 1 swordsmen detachment for each block for handgunners. Drop the handgunners parent entirely. Combine the flaggies into one big unit, and make it a bit bigger, at least 20 strong.

I would be tempted to grab a sigil of sigmar for your general, just for that extra bit of protection. Also, your general might benefit more from the dawn armor or the armor of meteoric iron then the casket.

Free company I strongly advise against, because they still aren't going to kill a thing, and give up lots of CR being armorless T3 infantry. You could drop them and should have enough for another unit of greatswords, which would go a long way towards giving you a bit more punch.

Kahadras
30-09-2008, 00:02
I'd look to get at least a couple of maneuverable units in there. A couple of small five man knight units would give your list some much needed flexibility. At the present moment I feel you won't be able to react fast enough to anything your opponant is going to do.

Magic wise I'd think about going for magic defence over attack. The Warrior Priest combined with the Wizard with the Rod of Power should work just fine. I think the Flagellants are a waste. One round of shooting at them and the unit is gone. Easy VP in the bag IMHO. Drop them and buy a cannon to help deal with any warmachines you come across.

Kahadras

gortexgunnerson
01-10-2008, 11:27
Yes I'm pretty sure that's how its played.

I'd put all the flagellants into one unit to enable you to make some use of their unbreakability. 5 models with Ws2, T3 and no save will easily be run down on the charge.

Alternatively, you could trade them for 10 Scouts.

Well not so sure about them being run down on a charge, 5 kills is still a lot for most average units which only have 6 attacks, and often a single model or 2 left becomes more difficult to wipe out then a larger unit. I originally went for 5 as holding units to manovreable units such as artillery hunters that where creeping about. I was thinking of 10 swordmen and 5 archers as 2 units to specifically try and contest table quarters but I think the archers are too fragile and I already had plenty of 10 swordmen units.

I do want 10 scouts but just think that they are far easier to kill, 100 points and will panic on 1 magic missle. So thought the flags would take a more sustained attack as you are required to kill them all.

Overall am rethinking and will probably replace, had chucked in at end as was originally thinking deamon hunteres theme and hence some flags were thematic but they are a little bit naff so didnt want a big block.


Swap 1 swordsmen detachment for each block for handgunners. Drop the handgunners parent entirely. Combine the flaggies into one big unit, and make it a bit bigger, at least 20 strong.

I really dont like handgunneres as detachment for combat units, as they have to move along with the unit so cant shoot or you have to leave them behind, generally out of position as had to deploy with the combat unit and also takes out one of the best combat advantages empire have. I like 2 fighting detachments as means when engaging a fear causing enemy you are better covered for the failed charge of the detachment. It also makes the units more flexible as you can threaten counter charges/assisted charges to a wider area.

Flags are more for theme, as I dont really like the unit and think a big block of 20 is just a target for weak shooting e.g. archers to pick up easy points.


I would be tempted to grab a sigil of sigmar for your general, just for that extra bit of protection. Also, your general might benefit more from the dawn armor or the armor of meteoric iron then the casket.

Dont think the dwan armour is all that great, but might consider it. My new thinking is to drop the priest all together for a captain and to swap the casket for some armour or a magic weapon. Dont think meteric iron is worth it on a mounted character as he has a 2+ save at the moment and if I change for a captain he will be 1+ save.


Free company I strongly advise against, because they still aren't going to kill a thing, and give up lots of CR being armorless T3 infantry. You could drop them and should have enough for another unit of greatswords, which would go a long way towards giving you a bit more punch.

Yes I take the point, was just looking for a cheap and cheerful unit as have had a lot of sucess resently with large cheap goblin blocks just static resing or driving off light enemy troops whilst the powerhouses closed in.


I'd lokk to get at least a couple of maneuverable units in there. A couple of small five man knight units would give your list some much needed flexibility. At the present moment I feel you won't be able to react fast enough to anything your opponant is going to do.

I looked at knights but think is pulling away from the horde theme, 2 * 5 knights uses 230 points which is almost a 6th of the army, which is more then I wanted to commit to flexibility. I have always been more of a fan of infantry units just as part of my style. I was considering 2 unit but think it might look alittle lonely and therefore abit pointless but might try it.


Magic wise I'd think about going for magic defence over attack. The Warrior Priest combined with the Wizard with the Rod of Power should work just fine. I think the Flagellants are a waste. One round of shooting at them and the unit is gone. Easy VP in the bag IMHO. drop themn and buy a cannon to help deal with any warmachines you came across.

Kahadras

I agree with magical defence and therefore was thinking of dropping the priest for a captain (drop the casket as well) and dropping the Lv2 to a lv1. This frees up some points but effectly ends the magic attack phase of the army. Basically play the lv 1 as casting a 1 dice spell and storing 2 dice a turn to give 5 dice on the defence. This lets me concentrate more on attacking characters and spreads the leadership bonus to 2 units.

Would love a cannon or 2 and a mortor as guess range weapons are really my thing after 15 years of dwarfs I expect the guess to be on the head of the man I aimed it at but having played Chaos Dwarfs for the last 2 tournments I took had a big gun line full of artillery and thought I fancied a change in play style to mix it up. So much as it pains me and I really really want some guns Im trying to resist. As if I put 1 or 2 in I'll start to hang back, so will rearrange my combat units into defencive units and I'll castle hills in a empire tradition. I wanted this army to be a horde taking the fight forward to the opponent!

As noted about Flags were there for abit of theme (deamon hunters), a bit of disruption and the fact the models are quite funky