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bork da basher
29-09-2008, 14:47
for those who know their fluff im basing this army list around kaldurs knights of tzeentch which is a tzeentchian warband consisting mainly of mages and knights and well mageknights. ive always wanted an all mounted chaos force but until now the models were lacking. now that they rock and they're cheap its time.

bear in mind this is a no holds barred list, i dont believe in neutering my army lists to please people so dont tell me its cheese because im fully aware that it is :p i have plenty of balanced army lists for friendly games, this is an army in the making for some tourney play next year so its deliberatly pretty nasty, its pretty repetative but i plan to sub out some knights for chariots when they come along in plastic.

first off 4 sorcerers of tzeentch to represent kaldur and his kabal, all ride discs and with a smattering of magic items to make things a bit more interesting they provide a vast amount of PD and DD and can cause a sick amount of damage.
next i pretty much had to take horsemen to keep my theme (like i need to be pursauded the models are superb), these represent the knights in the making who have yet to prove themselves and don the armour of a knight.
then a couple of packs of hounds to act as a meatshield for the knights.
then its the knights, the sorcerers in training and the elite of kaldurs warband. 4 units of 5 to be the hammer stroke combined with possible flank charges from the horsemen or hounds theres not much that can stand against them.

overall tactics are very simple, pound the enemy with overwhelming magic, use mages flight to prevent march moves and be a general hassassment. nuke warmachine crew and archers as a main priority. horsemen down the flanks, knights down the centre with doggyshield in front. smash a flank and roll them up.

obviously the list is small and reletively fragile with alot riding on the knight units to break units on the charge and ride them down. but the main strength the list relies on is you have more or less 1 turn to deal with it before it robs you of the initiative and slams into you. unless you have outstandingly tough or brave troops i doubt much could hold against it. im dubious of its chances against a dwarf or empire gunline though :rolleyes:

thoughts?

Heroes
Sorcerer / lvl 2, MoT, disc, golden eye of tzeentch, favour of the gods / 190
Sorcerer / lvl 2, MoT, disc, book of secrets / 185
Sorcerer / lvl 2, MoT, disc, third eye of tzeentch / 185
Sorcerer / lvl 2, MoT, disc / 160

Core
5 maruader horsemen / spears / 70
5 maruader horsemen / spears / 70
5 maruader horsemen / spears / 70
5 maruader horsemen / spears / 70
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30

special
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220

2000pts

Odin
29-09-2008, 15:11
I always assumed Kaldur and his mages were mounted on Chaos Steeds, but maybe that's just my interpretation of the fluff.

I don't know what the Book of Secrets is like now, but didn't it used to be only for non-Sorcerers? After all, it basically turns you into a Lvl 1 wizard. Will need to check the wording of that one. I'd say a Power Familiar could be a good alternative.

And personally, I'd say Kaldur deserves to be a Sorcerer Lord. Perhaps with the Chaos Runesword to make him a bit tasty in combat as well.

Anyway, fluff notwithstanding, the list itself looks pretty nasty. I'd consider giving the Horsemen shields and light armour for a 4+ save and to make them more like knights, possibly cutting them down to 3 units.

The Red Scourge
29-09-2008, 15:26
I always found, that I needed a steady source of S7 attacks with my mortal hordes. Something to reliably go through things like stanks and heavy knights.

Also focusing on Tzeentch magic seems rather limited.

Another thing is the discs. Since flyers can't join units, you'll have all your expensive characters out there in the open. And I'm not sure that is wise :)

LION
29-09-2008, 15:32
;)I believe The Book Of secrets will indeed be for non Soc models.

Also I agree that a Kabel surely needs a Soc Lord....not four Surfing Brother Disc Dudes of Equal oportunity. LION

Odin
29-09-2008, 16:44
Couple of further thoughts. If the list is not designed for "friendly" games, but as a competitive list, the Skull of Katam is ideal, given your sorcerers' mobility. Keep them together and you could have all 4 sorcerers benefit from the +1 to cast!

Another good reason to include a Sorcerer Lord is that you'll need one to cast the more powerful spells (incuding infernal gateway).

bork da basher
29-09-2008, 22:06
good points all, i'll have a re think.

bork da basher
29-09-2008, 22:26
okedoke had a rethink and reshuffled things a bit. i agree with making kaldur a lord, its only right i suppose so in he goes and he's decent in combat with a runesword and has a ward against shooting hits, expensive which is why i didnt take him to begin with but we'll see. i did think about the skull of katam but they have the mark of tzeentch for +1 already so i left it out, it also robs me of alot of the versatility to use it effectively too if i have to stay bunched up to gain its effects. horsemen now have upgraded equipment so some are better in combat and some are better at taking the hits, im tempted to go with flails rather than LA/shield though. hounds n knights remain unchanged.

Lords
Sorcerer lord - Kaldur / 235 / lvl 4, MoT, disc, chaos runesword, golden eye of tzeentch, favour of the gods / 390

Heroes
Sorcerer / 85 / lvl 2, MoT, disc / 160
Sorcerer / 85 / lvl 2, MoT, disc / 160

Core
5 maruader horsemen / spears / 70
5 maruader horsemen / spears / 70
5 maruader horsemen / light armour, shields / 75
5 maruader horsemen / light armour, shields / 75
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30

special
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220

2000pts

Kalec
29-09-2008, 22:27
Bigger warhound units would give you the benefit of some static CR, and would last longer against shooting before panicking.

Also, flails would probably serve the marauders better then spears.

lector#1
30-09-2008, 00:35
i think you should stick throwing axes in the marauder units because that way your sorcerers can join them and not commit to combat ( its similar to my list) just that i have 1 sorcerer and kolek but its all fast paced im sick of my foot slogging armies, but most of my units are tooled out =D

bork da basher
30-09-2008, 10:18
the warhound units are a meatshield, i dont expect them to do much and if i take them any bigger i run the risk of panicing my knights...a slim risk i know but id rather not risk it. id have to have 10 models to get 1 rank bonus and id still panic if i lost 3 doggies opposed to loosing 2 at 5 strong and not causing panic amongst my other units.

their sole duty is to protect the knights from the majority of incoming fire until i can neutralise it with my sorcerers, should they survive they will make useful flankers or blocking units, i'd prefer to keep them cheap and cheerful at 30pts a unit.

the horsemen want to be commited to combat, i want them hitting the flanks of units. the sorcerers will hug terrain and keep out of LoS, i dont really want them pinned down inside a unit i want them solo wrecking up units with magic. im dubious as to whether they could join them anyway being on a flying model, it doesnt make alot of sense.

Corum Jhaelen Irsei
30-09-2008, 11:35
At least this army will be cheap - almost all these models are plastic

bork da basher
30-09-2008, 11:43
that was one of the biggest factors for me aswell.

Odin
30-09-2008, 12:32
Also, flails would probably serve the marauders better then spears.

Yeah, agreed. I think it's only worth taking spears if you are also taking shields and light armour, so you can have a 4+ save and still get +1S on the charge. If you're not taking shields, flails are a much better option.

I notice none of the units have the Mark of Tzeentch. Not very fluffy - I'd at least have it on the Knights.

So, I'd drop one unit of Marauder Horsemen and use the points to fully equip the other three units, either with Flails & Throwing Axes, or with Spears, Shields & Light Armour. Should be enough points left over for some Marks of Tzeentch.

bork da basher
30-09-2008, 13:23
the mark of tzeentch is represented on the 3 sorcerers, they are the leaders and have been blessed by tzeentch with his mark. the knights havent advanced that far yet and as such havent got the mark.

game terms its virtually pointless to give a 6+ ward save to a model with 1+ save as standard.

the horsemen need looking at i'll see what i can tweak with them.

Odin
30-09-2008, 14:22
the mark of tzeentch is represented on the 3 sorcerers, they are the leaders and have been blessed by tzeentch with his mark. the knights havent advanced that far yet and as such havent got the mark.

game terms its virtually pointless to give a 6+ ward save to a model with 1+ save as standard.

the horsemen need looking at i'll see what i can tweak with them.

Yeah, I understand why you might not want to fork out for the Mark of Tzeentch for the Knights. To be fair, I think it's probably better on units than people give it credit for, but it's still a bit overpriced.

As for the Marauder Horsemen, I would say they should either be:

Spear, Shield & Light Armour (I believe this removes the "fast cavalry" rule), or Flails and Throwing Axes (poss, light armour as well). But there's definitely no point in taking spears without shields - you'd be much better off giving them flails.

bork da basher
30-09-2008, 14:52
im pretty happy with this now. dropped the fourth unit of horsemen, upgraded to flails and with the leftover points got a power familiar and a rod of torment (which i hope isnt slaanesh only) for a garenteed magic missile and some extra PD which is never a bad thing.

Lords
Sorcerer lord / lvl 4, MoT, disc, chaos runesword, golden eye of tzeentch /385

Heroes
Sorcerer / lvl 2, MoT, disc, rod of torment / 205
Sorcerer / lvl 2, MoT, disc, power familiar / 185

Core
5 maruader horsemen / flails / 75
5 maruader horsemen / flails / 75
5 maruader horsemen / flails / 75
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30
5 hounds / 30

special
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220
5 knights / standard / 220

2000pts

Odin
30-09-2008, 16:34
im pretty happy with this now. dropped the fourth unit of horsemen, upgraded to flails and with the leftover points got a power familiar and a rod of torment (which i hope isnt slaanesh only) for a garenteed magic missile

None of the magic items are God-specific it appears. So you could even buy your Tzeentch sorcerer a Collar of Khorne if you like. I imagine most people would feel a little uncomfortable doing this though (I know I would). No problems with Rod of Torment though, it's a generic enough item.

bork da basher
30-09-2008, 16:51
yeah i noticed the same thing, very few god specific items, i really hope some of the more obvious ones are made god specific though, i really hate this mixing gods thing and theres no way in hell i'd give my tzeentch sorcerers a collar of khorne, its just wrong. rod of torment sounds mor slaaneshy than anything but then again it could be generic too, we'll find out when the books released i suppose.

Harrower
09-10-2008, 09:32
I'm going to do something very similar to this list (I was also inspired by the Knights of Tzeentch haha). However, I really don't fancy all that Ld 8 without a battle standard,even with the Panic re-rolls, so might try to squeeze one in somehow.

Plus my converted BSB made out of the Archaon model is too cool not to use somehow :p