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Firstborn
29-09-2008, 15:59
First off, I will start by saying I am not really a WFB player (40k player), but I want to get into it properly.

I am looking at starting a new WFB army. For the longest time I had a Footslogging Slaaneshi Mortals list, which died horribly everytime it took to the field. I am looking at taking something a little more competative, as losing every game causes negative morale modifiers. The reason for Dark Elves is they have some very nice models, such as the new Cold One Knights.

Basically, I am just looking for a little advice on whether or not the following list will perform well, and then on to a little more specific advice.

There are no points here and no specific wargear, as I will be buying the Army Book along with the models!

The core of the army I have planned so far is from 2 Batallion boxes, which each include 5 Cold Ones, 20 Corsairs, 16 Xbowmen, 12 Spearmen. I am thinking that a unit of 20 Spearmen, flanked on either side by a unit of 15 Corsairs will form a nice solid core. Are they solid enough in units of 15, or should I use all 20 in each unit? If I put a Battle Standard Bearer in with the Spearmen it will be a very difficult block to break.

Trying to take high ground would be 2 units of 16 Crossbowmen and 2 Repeater Bolt Throwers.

I would then have 2 units of 5 Cold One Knights. I could stick a Dreadlord in there to ensure whatever gets hit is broken.

I also want something terror causing, as well as a sorceress. Can a Dark Elf level 2 Sorceress take a Dragon, or is there anything other flying terror causing creature I can mount one on?

To recap. The army will possibly consist of an unmovable core of infantry (20 Spearmen and 2x 15 or 20 Corsairs and BSB), backed up by 10 Cold One Knights (2 units of 5, or 1 of 10) and Dreadlord. Running in concert with the Knights will be a flying Terror causing Sorceress (cheap as possible). Sitting further back will be a fire support group consisting of 2x 16 Crossbowmen and 2 Repeater Bolt Throwers.

Does this army sound like it could work? I don't want to waste money on another army (even if it is as cheap as this one), only to lose every game and be put off again! I'm not looking for something which will destroy everybody else, but something which will at least draw occassionally...

Thanks in advance for the help!

Firstborn
29-09-2008, 16:08
Having taken a look on the GW website there are two flying DE characters models other than the dragon. These are Morathi on her Dark Pegasus, and the Beastmaster on a Manticore. I assume the Dark Pegasus is the cheaper (points) mount, but is it available for a hero Sorceress, and is it terror causing? Failing that, how about the Manticore?

I am hoping the Dark Pegasus is terror causing, because I prefer the model!

Anyway, final question before I leave for now. Will this army have any trouble dealing with fast cav and fliers? I am thinking I should be able to shoot them down with my missiles, but does anybody have better advice?

Thanks again!

Oh, sorry for the long post! :)

Time of Madness
29-09-2008, 16:12
If you want a competitive dark elf army based on infantry you really should look at including a sorceress lord instead of the dreadlord.

Take the sorceress lord with the dagger and plunk her in a unit of 25 spearmen. Back her up with a bsb and another level 2 sorceress.

Corsairs are probally the worst unit in the dark elf list. I'd look at using their bitz to convert up more spearmen.

Spearmen are such a bargin with the new book and can perform a lot of different roles in your army.

For a terror causer look at taking a hydra. Very good at assisting your infantry and cold ones. The breath attack is insane.
Time of MAdness

Lord Aislinn
29-09-2008, 16:26
Well, welcome to fantasy!

I'm sorry to inform you a dark pegasus is not terror causing, and in less than 2000 points, I wouldn't take a manticore, as they use up one of your invaluable hero choices. Therefore, as Time of Madness said, a hydra is very good, however in my opinion, reaper bolt throwers add an element to the army that you cannot refuse, so take a sorceress with a pegasus and the death mask (cause terror) if you're really desperate for that terror.

However, I am going to contradict Time of Madness on that corsairs are a weak unit, as they can be a very cheap, efficient hammer unit, whilst spearmen are much better as redirection units/missile screens, basically anything sacraficial due to their low points cost.

I'm unable to comment on crossbowmen, as I haven't used them in my DE army since the new book, though I shall be buying someone new ones (old ones are too tatty) on Saturday.

But have fun with it, and just generally remember not to be too scared to say flee as a charge readction, so long as it saves you something and doesn't just **** your opponent off as you always flee, use fast cavalry to sweep down flanks and for fast re-deployment, and shades with great weapons are amazing.

Caligo carmen
29-09-2008, 18:19
Talking about pegasus charecters: I`m considering using a pegasus master with good armour, a lance and the Lifetaker. Yes i know how absurd this sounds. But i faced one today. Yes i laughed when he told about the lifetaker, only to wipe that smile of my face he`s master single handedly killed 4 out of my 6 strong CoK unit(2+ save degraded to 4+). Well hitting always on 2+ and striking at Str4 aqainst my T3 army and always finding a nice view to fire from due to the flying plus minus 2 for armour saves. He always anoyingly was behind cover on my turn so i couldn`t return the favor then only to redeploy somewhere i couldn`t charge and shooting me. Nice knight and artillery hunter. But i`m not going to use my "lifetaker" master as the general im considering him a side kick in the future though. It Would be too risky to use as the general.

Firstborn
29-09-2008, 22:22
Thanks for the advice guys! I just put in an order for a bunch of stuff, which I will get, read up on, and assemble my first force. I will then post up here for criticism. I should have plenty of stuff to make a decent list, as I ordered more than I need:

2x Battle Force (20 Corsairs, 12 Spearmen, 16 Xbowmen, 5 Cold One Knights each)
2x Repeater Bolt Thrower
1x High Elf Dragon (will convert into a lord or some sort)
10 Harpies (even though the models are hidious)
20 Witch Elves
High Sorceress on foot
High Sorceress on Cold One
Dreadlord on foot (for converting into a BSB)

And of course the Army Book.

If I can't make something useful out of that pile of figures, it is time to give up!

Pasch
02-10-2008, 09:26
If you're going infantry heavy I'd suggest looking into getting some Black Guard. They are extremely good, in my opinion one of the best elite Infantry units in the game.

They pack 2 attacks each at higher than normal elf strength, are immune to psychology, stubborn and re-roll to hit EVERY round. Easily upgradeable to also have always strike first and if you really want to go over the top you can also make them flat out unbreakable (might be a little overkill since they're already leadership 9). Best part is they're 13 points a pop making them cheaper than their counterparts in most armies.

I'd also suggest Assassins to protect your units against certain troops. Other than that you've got the makings of a great army. Some other models can boost an infantry army but those can wait.

Axis
02-10-2008, 22:57
I would get some dark riders. Dark riders are the greatest thing in DE imo. I love fast cavalry.

Firstborn
02-10-2008, 23:14
They are the greatest priced DE unit too. Harpies will perform a similar function for me, hopefully.

Lord Dan
03-10-2008, 06:24
Talking about pegasus charecters: I`m considering using a pegasus master with good armour, a lance and the Lifetaker. Yes i know how absurd this sounds. But i faced one today. Yes i laughed when he told about the lifetaker, only to wipe that smile of my face he`s master single handedly killed 4 out of my 6 strong CoK unit(2+ save degraded to 4+). Well hitting always on 2+ and striking at Str4 aqainst my T3 army and always finding a nice view to fire from due to the flying plus minus 2 for armour saves. He always anoyingly was behind cover on my turn so i couldn`t return the favor then only to redeploy somewhere i couldn`t charge and shooting me. Nice knight and artillery hunter. But i`m not going to use my "lifetaker" master as the general im considering him a side kick in the future though. It Would be too risky to use as the general.

The Lifetaker isn't armor piercing like it's non-magical cousins, meaning you should have been taking those saves on 3+. :)

bambamBIGILO
03-10-2008, 17:57
The dragon is and easy conversions just use a spare torso from the CoKs, and you could have a terror causing peggy sorcerous if u use all the points and buy deathmask.( i wouldnt really suggest it though)

Firstborn
03-10-2008, 19:42
I decided against the flying sorceress, instead going for one in a block of infantry, and one on a Cold One. The one on the Cold One will have decent armour and a ward save (I am going to miss my Chaos Sorcerer with a 0+ save, aren't I...) so as to be survivable whilst not too expensive. Maybe give her that item which allows her to cast from a point 6" away from herself. Not sure yet, I will probably get my book and figures on Monday or Tuesday.

Axis
04-10-2008, 00:02
I think it is the wrong mentality to think about survivability with dark elf. You are elves so you have low survivability and there is not a lot you can do about it that is effective and efficient. You need to play aggressively. Maneuverability is the dark elf way of getting survivability. You aren't as maneuverable as wood elf but there are plenty of quick units.

As for harpies vs dark riders. There are many advantages dark riders have over harpies. Better leadership, feigned flight. So for when fleeing charges you are rallying on a 9 (unless you are retarded and don't buy a musician) and then the feigned flight rule as well! Harpies are on a 6. Dark riders have shooting. Dark riders are better in combat (at least on the first round, the second round is more marginal, with one WS4 S4 attack and one WS3 S3 attack both with hatred). Dark riders have a 5+ save. Fast cavalry are the most annoying things to fight against.

Harpies fly and are skirmishing with 360 degree line of sight. They are cheaper but easier to kill and much more vulnerable to psychology tests. Also, they are worse in combat so if you do decide to join an attack (e.g. and infantry unit charges the front, the dark riders/harpies go for flank or rear) they are worse, offset slightly by being cheaper. And to top it off when they are just march blocking or baiting units they can't do anything else where dark riders can shoot (probably hitting on 5's but that is still decent).

MonkeyLord
04-10-2008, 16:43
Well, I've bee playing Dark Elves for a zillion years now, and I lemme tell you, you picked a good time to come on board! The new book is great, and I think you'll have a great time with it.

I think you'll have a reasonably well balanced force, but I think you might find yourself lacking it real hitting power. I would highly recommend considering a Master BSB carrying the Hydra Banner to accompany one of your units of CoKs. CoKs by themselves are good heavy cav. CoKs with the Hydra Banner suddenly join the ranks of Super Heavy Cav (Blood Knights, Chosen Knights of Khorne, etc), and without having to worry about the liabilities of Frenzy. This will give you a very strong hammer unit that will steamroll most any unit they charge.

I also can't sing the praises of Shades enough, either. They're a very flexible unit that are essentially Dark Elf Commandos. BS5, WS5 scouts that can be equipped with two hand weapons or great weapons, they can serve all kinds of roles: killing warmachines, pouncing on units of knights, or beefing up a weak flank. I love 'em.

As far as your 4th level sorc goes, I find two builds immensely useful: one with the sacrificial dagger, or the focus familiar. The dagger is awesome in that you use it *after* a casting roll; failing spells will almost become a thing of the past. It's also a guaranteed number of additional casting dice equal to the number of spells you can cast in a given magic phase. Hard to beat that.

The focus familiar fulfills a different role...
1.) It means I can target units right off the bat on the first turn, as I effectively have a 30" range right from the get go. So your first magic phase can be spent blasting stuff without having to leave your deployment zone. Doombolt suddenly has a range of 24". Love it!

2.) Move into a house, behind a hill, or into some woods, and cast spells with impunity. This is an incredibly useful ability that makes every Wood Elf player the proverbial green eyed monster.

Whichever way you go, it's hard to go wrong. The sacrificial dagger is fantastic for spell spamming, and making sure you don't fail your casting rolls. Focus familiar ensures that you can reach out and zap someone. But in my humble opinion, I consider these two items the best in the Arcane list.


I also second the call for some Black Guard. Hard to wrong wrong with those bad boys.

Though some folks don't care for them, I love witch elves too. I would suggest you always deploy them in ranks that are 6 or 7 wide. (I use 6). That helps maximize the ACR they generate. In previous incarnations of my list, I always deployed a unit of 18 (6x3), with Manbane on the Champion. They are the best infantry unit the Dark Elves have for tear-assing through soft enemy units, especially if carrying the banner of murder.

Lord Aislinn
05-10-2008, 08:33
I'm sorry to say that in terms of what fast things are there to perform, harpies and dark riders are on opposite ends of the specturm, harpies are a unit there to march block, and are far more effective than Dark riders at that particular job. However, Dark riders are actually capoable of more than one job - they have a punch on the charge and can negate ranks, they can march block (just not as effectively as harpies), and rally on Ld 9 (with musician) , so can be used for charge redirection/bait.


:)