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View Full Version : 2000pt orc army - help please



haydnc
30-09-2008, 01:48
My mate plays empire - Grand Master, 2 big units of knights, Celestial wizard, 2 or 3 cannons, hellblaster, more handgunners than you can shake a stick at and the barest minimum of spearmen. I play orcs and get blown to smitherines every time. I can't remember the last time I won. Now, I'm not competitive - I really don't mind losing, but I'd just like the games to be less predictable.

Personally, I go more for the look of things. I like a cinematic, cool looking army (which is partly why I lose). So I'm reinventing my army. I want it to be really oldskool (no night gobbos, no spider riders) and I love the idea of a big horde of orks clashing their choppas and marching up the field without much fancy stuff. So I figured I'd just add some thundering speedy guys to try and knock out his artillery and keep him distracted while my boys advance with the characters. I'm thinking horde and fast (geddit?).

So here it is. What I want to know is...
a) will it give his uber black-powder army a run for his money or is it doomed to fail?
b) do my explanations sound valid, or dumb?
c) does it sound cool or boring?

--------------------------
Black Orc Warboss [178]
Heavy armour; shield; boar
On a boar but heading an infantry unit. I just like the idea of him looking commanding amongst the foottroops and his leadership stays with the boys.

--------------------------
Orc Big Boss [97]
Light armour; battle standard
Walking by the Warboss's side, or maybe heading a different unit.

Orc Shaman [100]
Level 2

Orc Shaman [100]
Level 2
The shamen sit in the front ranks of the orc boyz, ready to enhance their combat

----------------------------

30 x Orc Butcha Boyz [240]
Additional choppa; musician; boss; standard

30 x Orc Butcha Boyz [240]
Additional choppa; musician; boss; standard

20 x Goblins [80]
Short bow

20 x Goblins [80]
Short bow
Personally I'd love to trade in the gobbos for 30 more orcs to achieve that massive horde feel, but I think I need the screen of handgun-fodder to shield the speedy stuff for a turn or two. Thoughts?

5 x Wolf Riders [70]
Spear; short bow

5 x Wolf Riders [70]
Spear; short bow
I always race the Dogboyz towards the handgunners to try and neutralise them, but it always end up like the charge of the light brigade. With this army I'm banking on giving him too manytargets to choose from so someone fast slips through the net. Good or stupid?

-----------------------------

10 x Orc Boar Boyz [70]
Musician; boss; standard
Now, the Pigboyz attract handgun fire like crazy and get turned into pork chops within 2 or 3 turns. I can't even remember the last time they saw any combat. But they are so cool they have to stay, but I figure with all the cavalry and chariots around they'll survive. Maybe.

Orc Boar chariot [80]

Goblin Wolf chariot [63]
Extra crew member

Goblin Wolf chariot [63]
Extra crew member

----------------------------

3 x Stone Trolls [180]
I have come to hate my stone trolls. Sure, they can take some lead and still live to puke all over the knights, but the stupidity cripples me every time. Should I give 'em one of the wizards as a babysitter? But then, wouldn't that make him really vulnerable? I would trade them in for a giant, but trolls are so quintessentially orcish, so they gotta stay.

Goblin Doom Diver catapult [80]
OK, so it's a bit fancy, but there are 3 things I like about this: 1. it's totally unique to the O&G army. 2. There aren't many things that negate the massive armour save of his knights, so with a lot of luck they could knock out half a unit. 3. Its cool, silly and fun.

----

Ok, so there you have it. Any advice would be much appreciated. For Mork's sake, let me win just once!!!

Time of Madness
30-09-2008, 02:40
Where to start with this mess.....

Characters

- Your lord needs some decent equipment. Give him the 5+ward item an enchanted shield and a cheap magic weapon (martogs best basha) to at least have him survive the game.

- Your bsb needs to be a black orc and needs to be on a boar. Place him in your second unit of orcs to quell animosity. Again give him some decent equipment. If you don't take black orcs I'd look at taking the spirit totem on this guy

- 2 level 2's???? why? take one level 1 orc shaman on foot with 2 scrolls

- This gives you room for a 3rd black orc character. He can ride with the boar boyz and quell animostiy if you wish. Or you could opt for a suicide goblin character on chariot or squig.

CORE

- 2 units of orcs are bigger then I'd go with. Look at dropping them down to 25 maybe...or at the very least 28 (with the character it makes them 30 anywyas).

- Drop the weedy goblins. T4 orcs makes a huge difference against shooting. The more orcs the better.

- Wolf riders are alright as long as you don't get them shot up

Special

- I'd drop the size of the boars down to 5 or 6.....10 is overkill. These guys need the banner of butchery.

- Drop a chariot selection (probally the orc one) and make room for a unit of 24 black orcs (6X4) with the spirit totem. These guys are rock hard in combat and give you more T4 orcs.

Hope that helps.
Time of Madnes

haydnc
30-09-2008, 03:45
"Where to start with this mess....." lol

Okay, well that's pretty comprehensive advice. Thanks.
Anyone else?

Fredmans
30-09-2008, 09:01
I think I understand where you are trying to go with this army, a traditional orc horde with solid blocks of infantry to soak up damage and then to deliver a punch when they arrive.

Problems: You have opted to keep your characters cheap in order to get more troops, yet I see a relatively low number of troops. My orc army is about the same size, but with a higher number of units and more expensive characters.

Some units could be trimmed down in order for you to field more units, if that is what you are aiming for:

Stone trolls could be made trolls. That saves you 60 points. Do not babysit them with your shamen. If you fail a ld7 roll, your shaman is stuck and loses the opportunity to cast magic. Keep the trolls next to your warboss' unit instead.

Boyz could be trimmed down to 25, or 23 if you plan to keep your warboss in the unit. That gives you another 70-80 points. Why? Because with large bases, a width of 6 bases makes your units more difficult to position and reduces your charge distances.

The Goblins are cheap, not as cheap as night goblin archers, but I guess they are ok. Use them to get in the way of knights' charges. If you manage to kill something with the bows, then that is an unexpected bonus. Try to give them musicians as well, since they are there to threaten flanks and run if charged. Rallying becomes very important.

With the points, you should try to set up a third orc block. Two blocks is just one to few. In 2000, I also field at least three fast cavalries. They are priceless for what they do, and they mainly serve to annoy and threaten my enemy until my main force gets where it wants to be.

You play against Empire a lot, as do I. I find goblin chariots quite worthless against them. They are vulnerable not only to cannons, but also regular shooting. Crossbow and handgun fire have wrecked many of my wolf chariots, not to mention pistoliers or outriders. S5 impact hits also has little impact on knights. Spear chukkas on the other hand is what my Empire opponents fear the most. If you have 2, stick them in the corners. If he tries to flank you with his knights, he exposes his flank which makes them lethal. If you have 4, all the better, because then there are few places where he is not exposed to them. A regular opponent does not even dare to field Steam Tanks against me anymore. They are just chukka target practice, he claims.

The boar boyz have to stay, you say, but have you considered splitting them up in 2x5? Sometimes 2 units are a bigger threat than 1, and he can only stand & fire against 1. That way, if he shoots one into oblivion, you still have one left.

Also, it seems your opponent fields a defensive army with lots of shooting. I do not know how you set up terrain, but if you use the rule book method, try to negate good firing positions. If he sets up a hill, place a wood next to it. It is boring, but so is getting shot to pieces, trying to instigate close combat.

Good luck, and remember, with a few more units, some anti-knight shooting and less chariots, Empire vs O&G is one of the most entertaining match-ups.

/Fredmans

Harwammer
30-09-2008, 14:24
Wolf riders don't need to charge the handgunners to stop them shooting,
you can just move them up to 1 inch away then have the wolves use their free fast cav reform so they completely block the gunner's line of sight :)

Try to keep large targets within sight of your bow goblins. Don't forget every rank of the goblins can shoot at a large target (if he takes a giant or imperial dragon) or at an enemy unit on a hill. When deploying terrain try to get a hill towards the centre of the table, you can use it to block his shooters line of sight, and to increase your block of goblins line of sight if anything of his stands on it.

I think you should ignore Time of madness advice concerning putting a black orc in the boar boys; The boar boyz are too expensive to justify the risk of having them killed by the quell animosity rule.

Ensure your trolls are always within 12 inches of your general. This means they'll always be able to test on his leadership (meaning they'll probably only fail once per six turns).

Kahadras
30-09-2008, 18:12
I'll help.

Characters -

Get your Warboss a magic weapon and a decent armour/ward save. You want this guy to be able to take a lot of punnishment and be able to deal out plenty as well. Martogs Best Basha is probably the best way forward in the magic weapons department.

With your BSB make him a Black Orc and give him the Spirit totem to improve your magic defence. Again mount him on a boar to give him that added protection. I'd sugest sticking him in a hard unit to make sure you keep those extra DD for as long as possible.

Drop a Shaman and reduce the other down to level 1 then take 2 dispel scrolls. This guy combined with the Spirit totem should provide enough magical defence to see you into combat.

With the spare slot created from the removal of the second Shaman I'd go for a throw away Goblin hero. You could stick him on a wolf, give him Wallopas One Hit Wunda and throw hit at things that you want to see dead. My mate swears by that or a Goblin Hero with Battle brew on a Giant Squig.

Troops -

Drop the Orc units down to 25 and take 3 units rather than two. If you don't want night goblins in your army then just ditch the idea of lagre Goblin blocks all togther. Wolf Riders are great though and two or three units are a really good buy IMHO. Use them on the flanks and try to get at your opponants warmachines and other vunerable targets.

Special -

If you really want to keep the Boar boys then drop them down to five models and drop the FC as well (keep the musician though). I'd drop the Goblin chariots and pick up some Spear Chukkas. While they might not hit that much they can threaten well armoured units and monsters which O&G have a hard time dealing with.

Rare -

If you want to negate stupididty then stick the Trolls near your Warboss. Personaly I think that you could do with a Giant in the list to focus shooting away from your chariot, Boar Boys and Wolf Riders. Giants and Trolls are a pretty good combo IMHO as they bypass a major problem for O&G which is fighting against fear and terror causing stuff. My mate is always complaining about having to face stuff like Wood Elf Dryads and Undead as he's always failing leadership checks to charge them.

Kahadras

haydnc
01-10-2008, 12:35
Ok, thanks guys for your advice.

Some differing opinions, but basically the consensus seems to be:


Take three smaller units of orcs
Beef up the characters
Trim some units down (especially wizards and boar boys)
Forget the gobbo chariots


I'm cool with all those changes - they sound eminently sensible to me.

@Fredmans: Thanks for your excellent anti-empire advice. I'm disappointed to hear that goblin chariots are so rubbish. Precision sniping with spear chukkas just doesn't feel as orky to me as rumbling up the field on chariots, but I totally take your point. I think that's why I'd taken the Doom Diver - more random and stupid, but with the potential to do the damage of a spear chukka. Had any experience with the Doom Diver?

LION
01-10-2008, 20:23
:DTake a pot of blue paint, smash a flintrock into pieces and steal your mothers sewing cotton. Hack off the Armour from as many Orcs as possible and Go Savage Orc. The Warpaint will help against his fire power and a couple of big Savage Orc Boar Units will reach his lines in a state of frenzy wielding tradition Flint weapons bound with rope (mum's cotton).

You will have far more fun than is available with beardy Black Orck Boar Rider lead Orc Blocks LION

adatopoulos
04-10-2008, 00:21
1) Orcs have decent stats and access to the most cost-efficient and powerful Magic Weapon choices among all WH armies (having access to Sword of Might for just 10 pts, for example), because their basic mundane weapon choppa (and Armed to da teef special rule) is much more superior compared to every other mundane weapon option in game. Still, if you give them boar, then you lose all the benefits of choppa. So it's better that you take a weapon for boar riding characters, viable options are: Battleaxe of Last Waagh, Shaga's Screaming Sword, Martog's Best Basha. But on foot, magic itemless black orc heroes are also a viable option: they're not easy to kill after all with t5, and have the best weapon options in game for free (2 choppa and GW)

2) Orc Magic sucks hard imo, compared to every other race in WH. First of all, Waagh miscast table kinda suck. Magic is expensive and unreliable. Furthermore, Orcs have access to the most cost efficient dispel item in the game: Morks Spirit Totem (50 pts for 3 dispel dice). So it's possible to take 4 fighting characters, and trust the banner in dispel purposes.

3) Orcs are better fielded 25 man than 30 mans imo. It's cheaper, almost the same fighting power, because orcs are almost impossible to kill via shooting/magic. Plus, your opponnent's magic will be focused on your chariots/black orcs/giant/etc most of the time.

4) Gobbo chariots fear the half of armies in WH: VC, TK, Deamons, Ogres, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, High Elf, and have LD of 6... They also have t4, AS 5+, and W3, so even if they don't fear or somehow pass fear test, chances are they will get smashed into pieces before charging enemy...

Other than that, your army is fine. GL

Lordsaradain
04-10-2008, 09:12
I'd drop all the chariots, they're such juciy targets for cannons.

Downgrade the stone trolls to normal trolls.

I'd trim down the orc units to just by about a rank.

Get another orc infantry unit, more(at least another 5) cheap wolf riders and possibly a unit of black orcs .

Either drop the shamans, and give your BSB morks spirit totem, tehn your magic defence will be cheaper and enough;
or keep them but kit out your characters with some more magic(horn of urgok for your general, and itty ring for a shaman, maybe a power stone).

Give your general some cheap weapon, best basha or akrit axe, and the kicking boots.

Tonedogbf110
06-10-2008, 16:06
I feel for you, I have a simliar problem with a friend of mine's high elves.
every unit uses bows, and he tends to field a dragon as well.

my list comprises roughly:

B/Orc warboss on boar + Items
Big Boss (foot to join orc block)- Morks totem

Orc Shaman (foot to join orc block)- Lvl2
dispel scroll

24 Orc boyz FC - shields
24 Orc Boyz FC - Ex choppa
25 Orc Boyz FC - Shields And Spears
10x wolf Riders

40 Night Goblins - 3x fanatics

5x Boar Boyz
2x Boar Chariots
Rock Lobba

Doom Diver
Giant

thats roughly it, its a 2000pt list and is working quite well.
key is getting across the table as quickly as possible.

The Giant is a good deterant, he normally tries to pepper that first, allowing my orcs to make ground, if not then Vice Versa.

if you can get up close you will maim him in close combat.

hope that helps