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Wook
30-09-2008, 17:39
I normal play O&G or Empire and I am somewhat fed up with both armies (especially my goblins) being taken apart by New Codex creep VC, HE, Daemons of Chaos armies. I have a 2K game against DE and I want to use Skaven although I have never used Skaven, I have had the models for some time now. This is a blood on the walls, anything goes game (my opponent is going to a tournament soon and this is a practice) For me it is a motivation to stick my army together. Any amount of cheese is ok for this game (thatís the point) I intend to round out my list after the game to make it a turn up and play list.

This is what I have so far what do people think?


2000 pts Skaven List

Warlord
Heavy armour and shield, Blade of Fury, Warpstone Amulet, Bands of Power (199 pts)

Chieftain, BSB, Heavy Armour and Shield (76 Pts)

Warlock Engineer, Warp Blades, Warp energy condenser, Warp power Accumulator
(85 pts)

Warlock Engineer, Warp Blades, Warp energy condenser, Warp power Accumulator, Storm Daemon (110pts)

20 Clan Rats, Standard And Musician
1 Ratling Cannon (175 pts)

20 Clan Rats, Standard And Musician
1 Ratling Cannon (175 pts)

20 Clan Rats, Standard And Musician
1 Ratling Cannon (175 pts)

20 Clan Rats, Standard And Musician
1 Ratling Cannon (175 pts)

20 Clan Rats, Standard And Musician
1 Ratling Cannon (175 pts)

20 Slaves = 40 (40 pts)

20 Slaves = 40 (40 pts)

20 Slaves = 40 (40 pts)

20 Slaves = 40 (40 pts)

20 Slaves = 40 (40 pts)

2 giant rat packs (60pts)

2 giant rat packs (60pts)

7 night runners (35 pts)

5 Jezzailes (100pts)

Warp Lightning Cannon (100pts)

Warp Lightning Cannon (100pts)

LION
30-09-2008, 18:13
;)Five Rat Gattling Guns-Two Warp Toasters + a bunch of Warpstone Muskets.....Please play a few Daemon Armies & post results LION

gerrymander61
30-09-2008, 19:18
Ratling guns are very very easy to take out, so easy in fact that you can't reliably use them for much else than protecting flanks and rear from fast cavalry and fliers, because you can do this and keep them out of sight at the same time. Any decent enemy, dark elves in particular, will have no problem wasting any and all ratling guns that dare to poke their heads out. 2 ratling guns max.

next, your unit size. Clanrats are decent fighters, but nothing special, and are worse than dark elf warriors, so you need to make sure you outnumber them. Beef up your unit size to at least 24 (4x6), but 30 is much much better. I have great results with minimum sized units of slaves but I know that some people like them big as well. That one's up to you.

Oh, this i love. split your giant rat packs up into 4 of 1 rather than 2 of 2. The lone giant rat pack has never failed me, but anything bigger becomes a huge liability because the rats have no armour save and die very easily. A lone rat pack is easily overlooked, doesnt' easily panic other units, but has m6 and can negate ranks. Give it a shot.

5 Jezzails will do dick all. With jezzails, go big or go home.

Last thing, in a horde army, the warlord doesn't need to be able to fight. Usually, he's better off just staying alive at the back of the unit and spreading ld 10 goodness. That's another thing to consider, that he doesn't have to be a fighting character, but if you want him to, then go nuts. I'm not a big fan of his equipment, but I doubt I can convince you to take anything else. Warpstone armour is a pretty good choice thou.

Wook
30-09-2008, 20:23
This is my first Skaven list so if you have some better equipment choices for the warlord they I am all ears. As a rule I don’t take much wargear with my other armies so I may just strip all his kit. I was thinking of taking more night runners and using them to protect my Ratling guns? How many jezzails do you suggest, I can field up to 35? What about slaves with slings are they any good? I like the Giant rat idea. On the subject of Giant things what about any DOW stuff?

As for the size of my units, I don’t have time to stick any more clan rats together before the game, but I am planing to take them to 25 strong in future. The idea was that I would still out number in combat because I have 12 ranked units and will pile 2-3 against each of his in combat.

I am a little worried about a Maticore landing in the middle of my army on turn 1 and making the whole lot panic and bugger off.

Where would you spend the 180 points of rat gun money? I would like it to go back in to fire power.

Scooner
30-09-2008, 20:36
jezzails need to be about 8 strong. optimum for taking out cav and big monsters like manticores. i went to the GT last yer with my skaven and i took 8 jezzails and worked wonders but one bloke took 2 to 3 units of jezzas..180 points for 9 jezzas, that will do.....

Wook
30-09-2008, 21:32
Ok I have had a re jig of the list. Hows this

Warlord: 90 Heavy armour shield (99)

Chieftain
BSB
Heavy Armour and Shield (76 Pts)

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Warp energy condenser
Warp power Accumulator (85 pts)

Warlock Engineer
Warp Blades
Warp energy condenser
Warp power Accumulator
Storm Daemon (110pts)

25 x Clanrats: Musician; Standard Bearer; Ratling Gun 200
25 x Clanrats: Musician; Standard Bearer; Ratling Gun 200
25 x Clanrats: Musician; Standard Bearer; Ratling Gun 200
25 x Clanrats: Musician; Standard Bearer: Ratling Gun 200

20 x Clanrat Slaves 40
20 x Clanrat Slaves 40
20 x Clanrat Slaves 40

5 Night Runners 25
5 Night Runners 25
5 Night Runners 25
5 Night Runners 25

3 x Poisoned Wind Globadiers 30
3 x Poisoned Wind Globadiers 30
3 x Poisoned Wind Globadiers 30
3 x Poisoned Wind Globadiers 30

5 x Gutter Runners: Poisoned Hand Weapon; Tunnelling 85

5 x Warplock Jezzails 100
5 x Warplock Jezzails 100

1 x Warp-Lightning Cannon 100
1 x Warp-Lightning Cannon 100

gerrymander61
02-10-2008, 15:44
This list looks much better than the first, the additional jezzails and night runners will definately make a difference. Good choice with the warlord. Like jezzails, with warlords it's either go big or go home; either make them fighting machines, or leadership whores. I'd suggest giving him a great weapon as well so that if your unit is up against something cushy say for example zombies or skinks, you can move him to the front of the unit and cause some serious damage.

Your cheiftan can't take a shield if he's the BSB, but that's just nitpicking. He's great.

The only issue left with the list is still the number ratling guns. Try it out for the first game and see what I mean; the only ratling guns left alive after the enemy's first round of shooting will be the one's hiding behind NR and clanrat units, making them really only valuable for shooting units that get behind or on the flank of your battle line. Not only that, but think of what you could get for dropping even 2 of the guns:

You could beef all your clanrat units up to an intimidating 30 units
You could get 4x1 units of giant rat packs
You could get another unit of 20 slaves, and still have 80 points to spare

Point is, 4 ratling guns won't do the job any better than 2, but units of 30 clanrats or some rat packs or more slaves will make a noticeable difference.

Try it out with the 4 guns and see what I mean.

Wook
06-10-2008, 19:16
Ok I have had 2 games with the modified list now and they both went quite well.

In my first game I went up against a 2000 pts DE army with 2 Manticors and 2 hydras. I can definitely see the point of a warp fire thrower now, however my WLCs did the job killing one hydra in 1 shot and taking enough wounds of the second my jezailes could finish it. My 2 warlock engineers did jack all except get 2 of my rattling guns killed by chill wind (mist cast on doubles, due to DE magic item). Bucket traps against hatred worked a treat drawing in both units of warriors and destroying them. Ratling gun teams killed of the 2 units of dark riders and the chariot. My jesailes performed admirably in combat seeing off a unit of harpies and the remaining beast masters. The maticors were more difficult however, I remove the beast master manticore from the game by fleeing with a unit of globadears, taking him off the board and effectively removing him from the game. It returned on turn 5 so was only able to participate in turn 6 by which time it was the last DE models on the table. The general made a mess of several cheep units before finally hitting a unit of clan rats and getting bogged down a combination of a couple of lucky wounds in combat and a continuos volley of fire took him down.

My second game was much closer with a minor victory for my Skaven (and only just); my opponent had a wood elf army. The wood elf army was fairly compact (all the units were immune to psychology) but very tough. Both my WLCs were dead by the start of my second turn and my Ratling guns misfired 6 times during the game (I only lost 1 gun and 7 clan rats though). Overall my plan worked and it was the combined charges of my clan rats along with night runner units that kept me in combat against the eternal guard and the war dancers. I won or drew most of the combat results keeping me in combat at the cost of about 15 rats each combat phase; the close results and high leadership of the elves stopped them from running. This allowed my firepower to kill off the rest of the army and then fire in to the combats whittling the last two units down. Sadly it was not quite enough with 1 solitary war dancer and 4 eternal guard alive by the end of turn 6 preventing me from getting full points from these units. The second game was much more enjoyable than the first possibly a reflection of the close nature of the game.

I am fairly happy with the army at the moment and wish to play some more opponents (A magic heavy army, a shooting army, a cavalry army and a hoard army) to see how it fairs. I am considering dropping a WLC and a Ratling gun and taking a WFT a 4th unit of slaves and 5 gutter runners with tunnelling, if I keep the rat gun rather than the WFT I could give the gutter runners poison.

Shamfrit
06-10-2008, 20:17
I am too drunk to comment on the entirety of the last right now, but I would recommend the following set-up for your Warlord:

Warlord
Great Weapon
Warpstone Armour, Warpstone Amulet

4+ Save, 4+ Ward, rebound effect on rank and file, Str 6. Protection and offense balanced carefully.