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Zerosoul
01-10-2008, 16:02
I'm a pretty new WHFB player(three games with my own army under my belt, a few more with borrowed armies). I currently play Daemons of Chaos, where it's pretty trivially easy, even with a non-powergamed army, to get 8 dispel dice. However, I'm looking at branching out when I get more money and starting a Dark Elf army, and putting together lists, I can't help but feel a little nervous about magic defense.

So, I guess my question is: How much is enough? How many scrolls would you take in an all-comers list? How many DD would you consider to be a sufficient number?

Jack of Blades
01-10-2008, 16:54
It depends on your enemies. Some people will tell you to run max magical defense, others will tell you to kill the magicians before they can do much, and then there are those that tell you to run a scroll caddy (lvl 1 wizard with a pair of Dispel Scrolls). I think caddies greatly detract from the spirit of the game, but then again, I also think maxing out on magic does that as well. I'd tell you to hunt down the wizards before they can do much - eliminating them and getting the VPs is imo, preferable to weathering the storm. It also works fairly well with an all-comers list. If you take too much magical defense you might find it useless, and if you take too little you might be overwhelmed, but being able to field extra units never hurts.

theunwantedbeing
01-10-2008, 16:56
You only need 2 character's.
So however much magic defence 2 character's can get without being completely designed to defeat magic is "enough".
Note that you'll also be able to get a perfectly decent magic phase out of those 2 mages as well as having plenty of magical defence.

Shamfrit
01-10-2008, 16:58
For me it has to be 5 Dispel Dice and a scroll, or 6-7 Dispel Dice without a scroll. 4 Dispel Dice and 2 scrolls seems to be what I come up with often for Skaven, and I've 6 Dispel Dice and 2 Spellbreakers in my own Daemon Army.

Jack is correct however, you can take out a mage or two easily enough with some direct attacking/attack allocation; because you can't dispel everything and mages can still get Irresistable Force, and no amount of magical defence will save you from those.

SolarHammer
01-10-2008, 17:02
It's simply a situation of diminishing returns. So "enough" is that most you can take without it being a detriment to the rest of your army.

Kalec
02-10-2008, 00:53
Solar is correct. If you can afford a scroll caddy without skipping on units vital to your army, then you should probably get one. But if you can't, then don't bother.

Lord Dan
02-10-2008, 01:37
For friendly games, I generally follow this:

1 dispel scroll per 1,000 points
2-3 dispel dice per 1,000 points

For tournaments, Solarhammer nailed it.

Pasch
02-10-2008, 09:43
Really depends on the army. As you mentioned Dark Elves, I'd throw out there that they can get away with very little in the way of dispel dice. Reason being simply the Ring of Hotek which jumps the enemy player's chances of miscasting up dramatically. With maybe 1 single sorceress as a scroll caddy or the item from the DE list that gives you an extra dispel dice you're probably good to go if you manage where you keep the ring.

Some might suggest this approach is a little risky but to each their own.

Frankly
02-10-2008, 09:56
So, I guess my question is: How much is enough? How many scrolls would you take in an all-comers list? How many DD would you consider to be a sufficient number?


Depends of 2/3 things.

Your environment, how much magic is both to the table top by your constant opponants.

Your army. How much ranged/magic damage your armylist can take, if your a horde armylist, them your less likely to feal 1d6 lightning bolts have an impact then a small elite army.

The 3rd is supporting factors, like your armylist L.d., any MR, etc, etc.

bork da basher
02-10-2008, 10:11
i always try and take a scroll per 1000pts but if im going mage heavy then i generally pack around 6-7 DD so i dont bother with scrolls then.