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Anton
04-10-2008, 18:09
So, how many of you regularly use the Enchanted Shield?

It recently came up to me that the Enchanted Shield gives a shield bonus if the wearer has a hand weapon. Which means that a character on foot with the Enchanted Shield and a hand weapon has a 4+ armour save in melee before adding light armour or heavy armour.

So, how many of you make use of it?

I am presonally planning on equipping my Goblin Warboss with hand weapon, light armour, Enchanted Shield for an armour of 3+. Immense! Also, that leaves me with 85 points to spend on Talismans and Enchanted Items. :p

Makarion
04-10-2008, 19:09
I'm quite fond of the Enchanted Shield myself. It's generally (Empire) on a warrior priest, so his armour save isn't worse than the knights around him.

Kahadras
04-10-2008, 21:55
I use it a lot with my Empire army. I usualy stick it on my Hero on Pegasus. Combined with full plate it keeps my save high which in turn helps to keep him alive longer. In my planned Wood Elf army I'm not using it as it really doesn't help out that much. Wood Elves have a poor save to begin with and pushing it from a 5+ to a 4+ really doesn't seem worth it somehow.

Kahadras

Felworth
04-10-2008, 23:59
Just so your in the know, foot troops only get the sword and shield bonus when utilizing a non-magic weapon and a non-magic shield. Seeing as the enchanted shield is magic and all, you'd only get +2 to your armor save armed with a regular hand weapon or not.

Anywho, the enchanted shield is the most cost effective magic armor in the OnG armory so my general always has it.

EvC
05-10-2008, 00:29
Noooo, they just need the mundane hand weapon. They can use the enchanted shield with a hand weapon for the 4+ save- hence why Anton suggested it and even specifically emphasises it, quite obviously.

I use it with Lizardmen sometimes, and also with my High Elf Star Lancer BSB; getting up to a 1+ or even better save is well worth it. Course doesn't help given how many 1s I roll to begin with, but in theory it's fine :)

Lordsaradain
05-10-2008, 10:36
Enchanted sheild is an item that you almost always squeeze into every list provided you have points to spare.

Anton
05-10-2008, 10:43
Just so your in the know, foot troops only get the sword and shield bonus when utilizing a non-magic weapon and a non-magic shield. Seeing as the enchanted shield is magic and all, you'd only get +2 to your armor save armed with a regular hand weapon or not.

Anywho, the enchanted shield is the most cost effective magic armor in the OnG armory so my general always has it.

As EvC said, only the hand weapon needs to be mundane. Not the shield.

Festus
05-10-2008, 10:48
Hi

Not even the Handweapon has to be mundane. It just has to be a handweapon, ie. follow the rules for a Handweapon. There is at least one Magic Weapon that gives you the Bonus save with a shield: The Bret's Sword of the Quest, which has Handweapon among its rules.

But generally, yes, the Weapon will be a mundane one to qualify for the Bonus and the shiel has just to be a shield, Magic or otherwise.

Cheers
Festus

Felworth
05-10-2008, 13:27
Seriously?

Hmm, I figured the shield had to be mundane as well to get the benefit.


Learn something new everyday I s'pose.

Bloodknight
05-10-2008, 13:33
Yes, seriously. The way HW&S works has changed between 6th and 7th edition. It's one of those minor changes one easily overlooks while reading the new book. :)

Anton
05-10-2008, 21:27
Hi

Not even the Handweapon has to be mundane. It just has to be a handweapon, ie. follow the rules for a Handweapon. There is at least one Magic Weapon that gives you the Bonus save with a shield: The Bret's Sword of the Quest, which has Handweapon among its rules.

But generally, yes, the Weapon will be a mundane one to qualify for the Bonus and the shiel has just to be a shield, Magic or otherwise.

Cheers
FestusAh, true, it can be magical weapon, as long as the rules specifically state that the weapon is a hand weapon. It's just so rare that I forgot mentioning it. :p

Which magical weapons count as hand weapons, except that Bretonnian weapon?

theunwantedbeing
05-10-2008, 21:35
Dagger of Hotek
Whip of Agony

Those are the only 2 other "magic hand weapons" you can purchase, both Dark elf items.
So that makes 3 magic weapons that can grant the hand weapon and sheild bonus.

So they're pretty damned rare.

Zot Zot
06-10-2008, 02:10
Unless fighting VC (with those bloody ethereal Spirit Hosts needing magickal weaponry), I typically take the Enchanted Shield on one of my bricks in my Servants of the Old Ones army. Since you get three layers of armour to the front with it when using a handweapon, its great bang for your buck. A Saurus Scar Veteran can get a 0+ armour save using the Enchanted Shield (which gives you a 2+ armour save even against Str-5 attacks.)

Highly recommended, especially when you are used to your opponent going first.

Von Wibble
06-10-2008, 21:27
I commonly face an exalted champion of khorne on barded steed with chaos armour and enchanted shield (0+ save). On a Jugger with the upcoming rules I believe it would be -1+?

Even on foot if using hand weapon a model with access to 4+ save (empire, dwarf, chaos, non quetzl (!) lizardmen) will have 1+ save. Of course, empire can just have armour of meteoric iron for a 1+ that leaves the other arm free for a great weapon.

Harrower
07-10-2008, 07:18
I commonly face an exalted champion of khorne on barded steed with chaos armour and enchanted shield (0+ save). On a Jugger with the upcoming rules I believe it would be -1+?

Even on foot if using hand weapon a model with access to 4+ save (empire, dwarf, chaos, non quetzl (!) lizardmen) will have 1+ save. Of course, empire can just have armour of meteoric iron for a 1+ that leaves the other arm free for a great weapon.

I realise that there's probalbly technically no reason why not....but can you HAVE a "-1+" save?!

2+ save even to s6.....yikes.

Braad
07-10-2008, 07:24
Enchanted shield is the only way for O&G to get below a 2+ AS (apart from stealing saves from opponents).
Black orc with heavy armour (5+), on a boar (3+) and with enchanted shield (1+). Really nice. I don't use it that often, but if I field Trolls, I usually make a boss with the enchanted shield to provide them reliable leadership.

Festus
07-10-2008, 21:30
I realise that there's probalbly technically no reason why not....but can you HAVE a "-1+" save?!

2+ save even to s6.....yikes.
Hi

Yes, there is no problem in having a negative to save value... as long as you remember that a 1 always fails ;)

Festus

Harwammer
07-10-2008, 21:34
1+ or better saves are basically there to reduce the effect of armour modifier from high strength attacks.

Badbones777
08-10-2008, 00:00
I absolutely adore the enchanted shield-its almost never off my Skaven Warlord! with Heavy armour it gives the same save as Warpstone armour and normal shield and yet leaves him with enough points to buy other stuff. Its a real utility item in a lot of ways-its cheap enough that even a fairly low level character can take it and have a reasonable level of protection, yet for higher level guys, it gives the springboard to a pretty robust defensive set up, but leaves room for nasty weapons.

The enchanted shield for example, lets my Warlord have a 3+ save (pretty decent for a Skaven) with enough points left to take Weeping blade and bands of power-which is pretty much guaranteed to draw out a couple dispel dice as no one wants 4 str 9 attacks causing d3 wounds with Skaven Initiative- so thanks enchanted shield!

Spirit
08-10-2008, 00:25
I find that a vampire (hero or lord) with dread knight and the shield for a 1+ save is pretty dammed good. Combine on the hero with 35 more points of gear and hated, they geta bit good a bit fast.

Braad
08-10-2008, 06:02
Hi

Yes, there is no problem in having a negative to save value... as long as you remember that a 1 always fails ;)

Festus

Or a 1-6 fails. Thank Gork for spear chukka's :D

VC Doke
08-10-2008, 14:41
Can someone grab their rule book? In the combat session or is it weapons - there should be a ruling on handweapon + shield. Can you have a magic shield and regular weapon. I know you definitely need a nonmagic handweapon.

Other magic weapons do NOT confer any bonus with this combo. Look under the definition of 'Hand Weapon' in the book. It is consider nonmagical unless stated in the army codex.

Citizen
08-10-2008, 20:57
I use an Enchanted Shield with Chaos Armour on my Wargor (in Warbands). 20 points for a 1+ save in combat.


EDIT: Just looked at the close combat sections as well as the list of weapons and can't find anything saying you must be using a mundane hand weapon.

Badbones777
08-10-2008, 22:53
I use an Enchanted Shield with Chaos Armour on my Wargor (in Warbands). 20 points for a 1+ save in combat.


EDIT: Just looked at the close combat sections as well as the list of weapons and can't find anything saying you must be using a mundane hand weapon.

I think the bit you are looking for is pg 121, magic weapons mate. "Magic weapons always ignore any special rules that apply to an ordinary weapon of the same type unless otherwise specified in the description of the weapon" So magic spears don't fight in ranks, magic handwepoans dont get Handweapon/shield bonus etc.

treben1234
08-10-2008, 23:17
So in combat would a Wright King with being a battle standar bearer with enchanted shield get a 2+ save in combat?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
08-10-2008, 23:33
I think the bit you are looking for is pg 121, magic weapons mate. "Magic weapons always ignore any special rules that apply to an ordinary weapon of the same type unless otherwise specified in the description of the weapon" So magic spears don't fight in ranks, magic handwepoans dont get Handweapon/shield bonus etc.

Oh man, I remember when we had an awesome conversation about that tidbit. It was hilarious. Of course, I seemed to be the only guy that thought a magical sword should count as a hand weapon, seeing as how it becoming magical shouldn't negate its hand weapon status. But I shouldn't open up that can of worms again.

I also use the Enchanted Shield quite extensively. Very useful for any close combat fellas.

txamil
09-10-2008, 00:01
Good to see Festus posting again!

EvC
09-10-2008, 00:17
I use an Enchanted Shield with Chaos Armour on my Wargor (in Warbands). 20 points for a 1+ save in combat.


EDIT: Just looked at the close combat sections as well as the list of weapons and can't find anything saying you must be using a mundane hand weapon.

You want to look at the rules saying you can't combine two pieces of magic armour, however. That means you can't buy the magic item Chaos Armour for a Beast character and also put the Enchanted Shield on him...

VC Doke
09-10-2008, 01:10
You want to look at the rules saying you can't combine two pieces of magic armour, however. That means you can't buy the magic item Chaos Armour for a Beast character and also put the Enchanted Shield on him...

Correct. They changed that about the E. Shield in the new edition.

Hawkkf
09-10-2008, 03:59
Heres a question I am sure has probably already been answered elsewhere. If I have a Saurus character with the enchanted shield and hw, then give him the venom of the firefly frog, would he sill get the extra armor save? The attacks count as magical from the venom but it is still a mundane hw. I have always played it as being magical, but this thread has gotten me thinking...

SolarHammer
09-10-2008, 04:19
Heres a question I am sure has probably already been answered elsewhere. If I have a Saurus character with the enchanted shield and hw, then give him the venom of the firefly frog, would he sill get the extra armor save? The attacks count as magical from the venom but it is still a mundane hw. I have always played it as being magical, but this thread has gotten me thinking...
Honestly I am astonished you would ask that at this point of the thread. Have you really read none of the replies? Please do so, as your question has been answered more than enough already.

winkypinky
09-10-2008, 10:45
I have found it entertaining with a Phoenix guard champion giving him a 2+ save and a 4+ ward. Which is around the same protection as most lords. Which makes him rather good at stepping in the way of unwanted challanges, and making him rather resilent to too much overkill from even the killiest of things.
But for this role i normally use a DP champ with helm of fortune.

Skitnica
09-10-2008, 15:25
I cannot think of a single instance where I have taken the enchanted shield...offcourse, I play Dwarves.

Lord Aislinn
11-10-2008, 08:27
I commonly face an exalted champion of khorne on barded steed with chaos armour and enchanted shield (0+ save). On a Jugger with the upcoming rules I believe it would be -1+?

Even on foot if using hand weapon a model with access to 4+ save (empire, dwarf, chaos, non quetzl (!) lizardmen) will have 1+ save. Of course, empire can just have armour of meteoric iron for a 1+ that leaves the other arm free for a great weapon.

No it wouldn't, a juggernaut has more than one wound.

Your mount has to have one wound for + 1 save - a horse basically.

So,
Chaos Armour 4+
Enchanted Shield 2+
Assuming the jugernaught has a rule similar to the cold one's thick skinned rule, 0 +



A -1 + save is silly, and I can't believe none of you noticed that.

Nighthawke
11-10-2008, 08:46
if you read the deamon book, juggernaughts add +3 to their riders armour save so a -1 save would be correct
and its not silly at all, if you get hit by something strentgh 6 you wouls still pass on a +2 rather then a +3 etc

Anton
11-10-2008, 13:23
Can someone grab their rule book? In the combat session or is it weapons - there should be a ruling on handweapon + shield. Can you have a magic shield and regular weapon. I know you definitely need a nonmagic handweapon.

Other magic weapons do NOT confer any bonus with this combo. Look under the definition of 'Hand Weapon' in the book. It is consider nonmagical unless stated in the army codex.Read the entire thread before posting stuff like this.

All that is needed is that the rules description of the magical weapon says that the weapon is actually a spear/hand weapon/great weapon etc.

So, a weapon like this would not give the hand weapon and shield bonus:

Sword of Awesome
The bearer of this weapon has +1 Strength.

However, this weapon would:

Sword of Cool
Hand weapon. The bearer of this weapon has +1 Strength.

The description must say that it's a weapon of the specific type. It's not enough that the name of the weapon says it's a sword/hammer/axe etc.

Usually, magical weapons do not provide the shield bonus, but a few exceptions do, as you can read about earlier in the thread.

As for the shield - it doesn't matter if it's magical or non-magical. It is still a shield for the purpose of the bonus, as long as the weapon fills the bill.

sniperjolly
13-10-2008, 00:31
Empire TGM's (templar grand masters), generals and capitans, they need the enchanted sheild, and should use it every chance possible, for that jucy 0+ save.

Thomus Darkblade
13-10-2008, 01:22
With my DoW, the paymaster would always get the enchanted shield. With my DE, I'ven't taken it since the new book came out. Offense>Defense

SolarHammer
13-10-2008, 02:48
No it wouldn't, a juggernaut has more than one wound.

Your mount has to have one wound for + 1 save - a horse basically.

So,
Chaos Armour 4+
Enchanted Shield 2+
Assuming the jugernaught has a rule similar to the cold one's thick skinned rule, 0 +



A -1 + save is silly, and I can't believe none of you noticed that.

You are wrong. A Juggernaut in both the new Daemon book and the new WoC book adds +3 to its riders save. So 4+ from Chaos Armour, +3 from Juggernaut, +2 from Enchanted Shield.

It doesn't mater if it's silly or not, that's what it adds up to.

EvC
13-10-2008, 15:30
I have found it entertaining with a Phoenix guard champion giving him a 2+ save and a 4+ ward. Which is around the same protection as most lords. Which makes him rather good at stepping in the way of unwanted challanges, and making him rather resilent to too much overkill from even the killiest of things.

Also illegal, as you cannot buy an enchanted shield for a model that does not have the option to buy a normal shield.

At least I think so, as people have butchered what I thought were relatively easy rules so many times in this thread I can't think straight any more!!!

Kerill
13-10-2008, 16:26
Although in the new chaos book sorcerers are specifically allowed to take magic shields (although they have no mundane shield option) so there will be lots of enchanted shield loving by chaos sorcerers as well :)

EvC
13-10-2008, 17:38
I'm just happy that the author made a note that Chaos Sorcerers can wear armour and implied that they can cast magic in it (which of course they can), so we won't be deluged with lots of casting magic in armour questions, like with the VC release...

SolarHammer
13-10-2008, 18:27
That is correct, given the rules on page 121 of the rulebook:

A character that is not allowed to wear ordinary armour cannot be given magic armour/helms (unless differently specified in the Army book). A character that is not allowed to carry ordinary shields cannot be given magic shields (unless differently specified in the Army book).

I believe Chaos Sorcerors are the first unit to have it differently specified for shields in their army book, as they wear armour and so can already take armour, but their rules state:
Sorcerors are unusual in that they wear Chaos armour and use magic shields or magic armour just like other Champions of Chaos.

sideorder_of_chips
13-10-2008, 18:41
But what about tastey, tastey magic items and scrolls? (sorry, I haven't read the new book yet though)

On a seperate note anyone thought about one on an Ogre Bruiser Tyrant/have any experience with such a thing?

SolarHammer
13-10-2008, 18:44
I certainly haven't because it's not in their army book. No Ogre character has the option to take a mundane shield (see above for why that's important) so it's not even printed in their list of common magic items.

sideorder_of_chips
13-10-2008, 18:51
...oh..er...oops...:(

Great apologies for foolish question. Was just flicking through my new DE book looking at Shadowblades massively oversized push-dagger and reminded me ironfists, not shields.