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max the dog
05-10-2008, 00:34
I'm not asking of the Grey Knights have scouts, that question has been answered before. I'm wondering if the Grey Knights use scouts?

Last night my group decided that instead of doing battle that we'd instead have a painting party. For some odd reason I decided to paint a unit of space marine scouts in Grey Knight colors. It looked good so I kept going, now I have 20 marine scouts painted up like Jr. Grey Knights.

Should I strip and repaint them, have them stand in as IST, or go with it by making a scout heavy space marine army with Grey Knight allies?
It certainty would work, I'd have access to the space marine HS vehicles that the Grey Knights sorely need yet still be able to field a decent number of Grey Knights.

Dr.Mercury
05-10-2008, 00:37
It is funny, I am doing exactly the same thing!
I am doing a Space marine Librarian, 2 10 man scout units 5 GK terminators and some power armor GK's along with SM dreads and LR's.

All will be painted in the GK colors.

PondaNagura
05-10-2008, 02:27
i suppose they could for sneaking up on worshipers, and establishing forward positions in order to teleport in.

Inq. Veltane
05-10-2008, 04:21
No, Grey Knights don't use Scouts. Sneaking really isn't their style. Grey Knights teleport down right into the middle of the problem, kill it, then leave. If an Inquisitor wants to take the subtle approach then he will use Inquisitorial Storm Troopers to do the sneaking up and the observing while the Grey Knights wait on their Strike Cruiser. Once the problem has been located the Grey Knights will lock their teleporters and arrive.

I'm not sure what answer you got when you asked before about the Grey Knights having Scouts - but they have something much more like the Black Templar's neophytes than scouts. Rather than going to face the Daemonic before their training is complete though they spend the decade that the creation process takes being prepared and purified to face the threats they must.

Anyway, cool models but they can't actually be Grey Knight Scouts. If they look good repainting them is a shame though...

Gorbad Ironclaw
05-10-2008, 08:19
I'd agree. No Grey Knight Scouts, and they wouldn't use them either. For a start the things Grey Knights are designed to combat pretty much rules out scouts. You do not want squads of young, inexperienced marines to fight demons on there own if you can help it.

Also, Grey Knights don't really work like normal marines. While normal marines might undertake a whole range of battlefield tasks and will often operate more as a 'normal' army formation (although a very elite one) and the marines will be sort of jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none.
Grey Knights is much more focused. They show up, kill demonic creatures and leave. They are the ones you call once you have done all the sneaking, they wouldn't do it themselves as that's not there job. They also wouldn't be operating independently like a marine chapter do, but will be called in so there just isn't any need for a scout section.

*maccas*
05-10-2008, 08:27
As you have asked this in the background section then i would agree with the above posters, that the Grey Knights do not use scouts. I believe that by the time each initiate has been trialled against the 666 ways of damnation that they are pretty experienced, and therefore are grey knights in power armour.

However, from a gaming point of view i would definately play against your grey knights with scouts. I'll play anyone with a legal army list and especially somebody with a cool theme like yours.

Adra
05-10-2008, 10:56
Yeah its a cool idea and im sure they would look great but no scouts dont fit into the GK fluff.

GK's fight deamons, thats the job they have and they gear themselves towards this goal. Now remember that in the case of a cult that is planning to summon deamons, an Inquisitor will be using a number of methods to observe and destroy such a group, including covert operations and stealth tactics. Inquisitors would have any number of tools at their disposal to counter such a group. The best way to think about GK's is as a tool of last resort against the deamon (excluding exterminatus of course). When a deamon infestation or possession occures its because either no one noticed it, or the Inquisitor has failed to stop it. At that time its no longer tacticaly sound to sneak around, you need to kill everything and kill it hard, and so you bring in your final tool. The Grey Knights say it best "I AM THE HAMMER!" and they are right. A blade in the dark is fine but once hell opens up you need to just smash kill burn and prey you can stop it.

heretics bane
05-10-2008, 11:43
The presence of grey knights indicate a massive deamon incursion which arent that hard to find. All the sneaky research stuff is carried out by the inquisitor before hand.

And with the sheer threat of curroption sending novices out not fully prepared is a major risk to the chapter.

max the dog
05-10-2008, 15:30
I've put a bit of thought to it and from a gaming perspective I find that marine scout heavy list is much better than IST heavy list; they can infiltrate, have better guns, and have access to very good HS and FA choices which the Grey Knights codex lacks.
In 5th edition I like big squads of 10 so I'd base the army around that number. A squad of 10 snipers could hold down objectives on my side of the board. I'm not sure if the new Land Speeder variant can transport models in power armor but if it can I'll have the 5 scouts deploy in it, jump out, then let the GK's ride around much quicker than they otherwise would've been able to. A space marine character on a bike attached to a squad of scout bikers could lay down some punishing firepower while bringing in a teleport homer exactly where I want it. From there I call in a GK Grand master & retinue and some GK terminators. GK terminators are an awesome value for their points.
From a fluff perspective the scouts could be considered IST who can still infiltrate. I really want to use Predators and Vindicators since twin linked lascannons and a great big st10 pie plate of death is perfect armament to hunt a Daemon army as they deep strike in.

Dr.Mercury
05-10-2008, 21:14
I imagine the GK would have an Initiate company, not neccessarily scouts, but initiates in training.

The Grey Knights fight Chaos, and all its minions, so the human followers as well as the daemons.
Besides, I would think that they need to get battlefield experience somehow before they are thrust into the fire.
Sure, the GK Initiates would be better equipt than the standard SM equivelant.

Maidel
05-10-2008, 22:02
I get the impression that GK are just left in training for a LOT longer. Dont forget they are all the equivalent or better than a normal space marine librarian (At least in the fluff, not necessarily rules wise)

I get the impression that when they are deemed ready, they are a full brother-marine, but that training period is massively extended.

kanluwen
05-10-2008, 22:25
We know that the Grey Knight Neophytes are equipped with Power Armour, Nemesis Force Weapons, and a Storm Bolter.

But who's to say the Veterans might not deck themselves in Scout gear for a mission that might require it? I mean, look at the Space Wolf Scouts. They're not the newbies of the Wolves.

They're the hard-bitten veterans that're leftovers from squads that have been annihilated and given free reign to harass the enemy.
/shrug
I like the idea :D

Maidel
05-10-2008, 22:32
But who's to say the Veterans might not deck themselves in Scout gear for a mission that might require it? I mean, look at the Space Wolf Scouts. They're not the newbies of the Wolves.

Because that fits with the whole 'nutting space viking' thing that space wolves have going.

IT completely doesnt fit with grey knights. They either get wind from an inquisitor that something is happening, teleport down, kill and get out. Or, in the middle of the battle they drop in on the big nasty (Eg Angron).

They just arent the 'sneak around' sort. why sneak when you can teleport?


Also, doesnt the armour have a psychic hood built in, which is really rather important.

kanluwen
05-10-2008, 22:38
So who sets the beacons for the teleports?
Considering that most of the time the Grey Knights are deployed, it's a full out Daemonic incursion, I can't see them just randomly popping into the Immaterium for giggles without some intelligence beforehand.

And who's to say they can't set up a psychic hood for the scout armor? It's not like the psychic hood is a standard feature in power/terminator armor.

I dunno, it just seems too unbelievable to me that there aren't *SOME* Grey Knights that set themselves in Scout armor or recon roles.

Maidel
05-10-2008, 22:46
So who sets the beacons for the teleports?

Which ever cannon fodder is available :)


and im not sure you have to have a beacon, it just helps.


Considering that most of the time the Grey Knights are deployed, it's a full out Daemonic incursion, I can't see them just randomly popping into the Immaterium for giggles without some intelligence beforehand.

Yea - thats what the inquision is for.


And who's to say they can't set up a psychic hood for the scout armor?

Well, for one it doesnt have a helmet. (and before you say it, i know there are some pictures of librarians without helmets.)


It's not like the psychic hood is a standard feature in power/terminator armor.

I dunno, it just seems too unbelievable to me that there aren't *SOME* Grey Knights that set themselves in Scout armor or recon roles.

Like everything else in the game world, until someone says specifically they do or dont, then its up for interpretation.

Anyone who has read their background can see that they wouldnt logically have scouts, as they use the inquisition to set up their targets for them and their entire way of working is 'shock and awe' teleport in (or landraider crusader in in force) and get out sharpish.

Lightly armoured scouts really dont fit the bill.

kanluwen
05-10-2008, 23:03
Oh no, I get that we haven't seen fluff yet saying the Grey Knights use Scout armor.

But we don't have much background on them, barring a few blurbs here and there like the First War for Armageddon, some bits and bobbles from Daemonhunters codex and rulebooks over the years, the Grey Knight novels by Ben Counter(I think that's who it was...can't recall off the top of my head).

And considering that the Grey Knights have their own, standardized suits of Power Armour and Terminator Armour(the 'Aegis' suits), who's to say they're not capable of standardizing a suit of 'Aegis' Scout armor for veterans who've become better at identifying and dealing with the leadership threats? We're talking about a branch of an Inquisitorial Ordo that has access to whatever they want, whenever they want. I'm sure they can get a helmet made that goes with the Scout armor that would incorporate a psychic hood. Heck, perhaps they even get a free Psycannon with purchase!

And considering that the background has them operating in a reserve role for the Inquisitors, I can understand the point about them teleporting in where the Inquisitor says to. But we do have to factor in that from the fluff we've gotten about teleportation--warp activity disrupts it, very heavily.

So why not have a reserve force that can be drop podded down outside of the 'tainted' area and set it up for bombardment/drop assault/mass landings of LRCs?

That's just my interpretation though.

Raeho
06-10-2008, 03:27
I don't have my codex with me so I can't check, but I'm pretty sure there is a bit in the codex that states GK neophytes are put straight into powered armor and assigned to a squad after their training.

Anyway, like a few others said before, I don't think scouts fit in to the army theme at all, it kind of spoils the knight image, among other reasons.

edit: I just noticed the total irony of having my rank as scout under my name

Taipan
06-10-2008, 06:32
Tactically, Grey Knight have no need for Scouts or anyone to set up teleport homers. It helps, but Grey Knights deploy using the best Imperial technology in service. Their style is to teleport/drop pod blindly onto a daemon-infested world, with their only intel being 'things are ****ed, kill everything that moves', and they end up wiping out everyone/everything tainted by Chaos. The survivors then teleport back to the strike cruiser, and prepare for the next assault, or if they have finished the mission they head back to Titan to recuperate.

Just to clarify the progression;

First, a powerful psyker youth (between 10-12) is selected for the trials. If the Chaplain reckons they are worthy, they get taken back to Titan and subjected to the 666 Rites of Detestation. Assuming they survive, they are gifted with a suit of Aegis armour (which has the storm bolter attached), craft a nemesis force weapon for themselves (think Jedi), and become replacements for existing squads.

After centuries of service, a Grey Knight may be elevated to the rank of Justicar, and lead a squad of into battle.

Assuming they display the qualities neccessary, they may be selected to form the Terminator bodyguard for a Brother-Captain or (if especially gifted) a holy Grandmaster.

Again, if they prove themselves they may be elevated to the rank of Brother-Captain. Very few Grey Knights survive to reach the rank of Grandmaster, they need to be literally warriors without peer. Among their ranks are counted the greatest heroes of the entire Imperium.


At no point does a Grey Knight don any armour type other than their power armour Aegis suit. If they exceptionally talented they may be granted the rare Terminator-pattern Aegis suit, but only in a bodyguard capacity for a Brother-Captain/Grandmaster.

Their style and tactics never require or allow the use of carapace armour. The Ordo Malleus are the ones who hunt and locate the taint, the Grey Knights only show up to purge it quickly, before moving onto the next warzone.

Eulenspiegel
06-10-2008, 06:52
Well, lampshade it.

Instead of shoe-horning scouts into the Grey Knights with fluff that will raise peopleīs eyebrows, just play straight and say:

"I use this army with Grey Knights and Grey Knight Scouts. Yes, Iīm aware that these donīt normally exist but I like the colour scheme and I like the way my army plays. Donīt bother pointing out the fluff discrepancies, thank you. And now letīs have a nice game."

Dr.Mercury
06-10-2008, 11:22
Well, lampshade it.

Instead of shoe-horning scouts into the Grey Knights with fluff that will raise peopleīs eyebrows, just play straight and say:

"I use this army with Grey Knights and Grey Knight Scouts. Yes, Iīm aware that these donīt normally exist but I like the colour scheme and I like the way my army plays. Donīt bother pointing out the fluff discrepancies, thank you. And now letīs have a nice game."


That was my plan, anyway.