PDA

View Full Version : 2000pts fast cav chaos mortals



lector#1
06-10-2008, 10:53
ok this is my fast cav list lead by kolek...

Lords
Kolek -605

Sorcerer, steed, 2 dispell scrolls, level 1 - 151

Core
5 Horsemen,, throwing axes, - 75

5 Horsemen, flails - 75

5 Horsemen, flails - 75

Special
3 Dragon ogres, champion, great weapon - 251

3 Dragon ogres, champion, great weapon - 251

5 Knights of Chaos, musician - 210

5 Knights of Chaos, musician - 210

97 points.... i could either go with another horsemen unit, or mark everything worth marking or so new units all together, more big creatures, more fast cav or some infantry blocks if i take out a few units and swap them for infantry

bork da basher
06-10-2008, 15:46
id think about buying standards for your knights units and use the rest to upgrade your sorcerer to a lvl 2 and give him the mark of tzeentch so he has a chance of getting some spells off instead of just being a scroll caddy.

Zoat
06-10-2008, 19:40
Reading the title I was expecting more units! :)

And I think you need it. I intend to return to chaos when I get the new book and have been toying with a cavalry army. I always end up with some kind of MSU solution with plenty of cheep units. But that is a matter of taste.

I don't have the new book, so I have no clue what Kolek does or what stats the units have now. So instead of giving critique I'll give you a challenge:

How would you handle an army with a solid infantry core and moderate fire/magic support? This would be a fairly standard empire/dwarf/skaven/undead/ork set-up containing:

4 infantry blocks @ 4x 250 = 1000 pts
20-40 shooters or 4-5 magic levels @ 250 pts
1-3 warmachines @ 250 pts
general and bsb @ 250 pts
+ some throw-away support units

Apart from that I agree with the previous poster that adding standards to your main combat units would be great. Throw in a Warbanner when you are at it!

I don't have time to tinker with army lists right now, but whatever you come up with will be useful for me when I do!

akgaroth
06-10-2008, 20:21
I think the sorcerer is good as it is now. The weak point of your army is the low number of miniatures, so it's particulary threated by shoots. So i suggest you to take 2 or even 3 units of 5 chaos warhounds to protect your hard hitting units. You can also give to your knights or horsemens the mark of nurgle, which doesn't cover 100% them, but it gives them some additional survivability in CC. The choise is up to you.
I hope i was of any help.

lector#1
07-10-2008, 11:16
ok to Zoat's challenge,
first things first, kolek is a shaggoth character, with 7 str 8 atts 8 wounds, ws 8 m8 he is a beast but at 605 points and has a spell that does d6 hits str 6 and d3 wounds if he rolls 2+ if he rolls a 1 he hits himself, if he doesnt work there will be a chaos lord supsitute for him, but for my plans on a army that is like you said here it goes,
kolek will charge down the unit that is the most threat (combat wise), the dragon ogre units will chase down the next hardest units seeing as they can do it, knights will have the 2 marauder (flails) units flanking(if need be) the maruader unit (t axes) with the sorcerer in it is my warmachine hunting unit most likely lore of fire, thats basically it if there is alot of ranged units will be handled by un occupied maruader units, its a hard list to get right but there has been alot of Thought has gone into this and how to handle the problems of magic and ranged heavy armies, this is what a heavy/ fast cav list would look like without kolek

Chaos Lord Lugrisk
Mark of tzeentch
Option 1 = sword of change, golden eye of tzeentch, acid ichor, chaos steed, shield - 359
Option 2 = chaos rune sword, the beguiling gem, acid ichor, chaos steed, shield - 369
(maybe put helm of many eyes in there some where ^^^)

Sorcerer, level 2
mark of tzeentch
Dispell scroll, power stone, chaos steed - 161

Sorcerer, level 2
mark of tzeentch
Dispell scroll, power stone, chaos steed - 161


5 marauder horsmen
Throwing axes - 75

5 marauder horsmen
Throwing axes - 75

5 marauder horsmen
Throwing axes - 75

5 chaos knights
Mark of tzeentch
Full command - 270

5 chaos knights
Mark of tzeentch
Full command - 270

5 chaos knights
Mark of tzeentch
Full command - 270

5 chaos knights
Mark of tzeentch
Full command - 270

well its still a bit small, but if i take out one unit of knights i can get some infantry blocks or some hound units for numbers
this list has more numbers, and probably more survivability and could probably be fun to play i might save kolek for my 3k points army, still gonna paint that big sucker tho

bork da basher
07-10-2008, 12:33
mark of tzeentch is worthless to knights, drop it and save 80pts. also drop the champion of each unit its not worth it and save another 80pts.

id proberly drop the mark of tzeentch on your lord (unless for sake of fluff u want to keep it) and seriously rethink his magic items, sword of change and acid ichor are really overpriced and not worth it at all, also a chaos runesword really isnt needed for a lord whose already a combat monster, a crown of everlasting conquest would be better than the eye of tzeentch because he's got a 1+ save as it is and is mainly going to be in combat and not getting shot up (hopefully you dont roll 1's on look out sir rolls) so a 1+ save and then a 4+ regen is goingto keep him alive nicely. id be prepared to run the risk of a GW and helm of many eyes combo on him to be honest. 5 S7 hits ASF will normally do the trick.

id mount the sorcerers on discs to keep them out of combat and maximise there megical potential. great to zip down the flanks to marchblock and blast magic missiles at shooty units or warmachines. power stones are bit pointless with tzeentches +1 to cast with the mark. a power familiar would be better throughout the game.

not sure 3 units of throwing axe horsemen is needed. maybe 1 unit of axemen and 2 with flails.

if you did everything im suggesting here you could have around 200pts free to buy plenty of hounds to help screen your knights and bait things with.

lector#1
07-10-2008, 13:06
mark of tzeentch is worthless to knights, drop it and save 80pts. also drop the champion of each unit its not worth it and save another 80pts.

id proberly drop the mark of tzeentch on your lord (unless for sake of fluff u want to keep it) and seriously rethink his magic items, sword of change and acid ichor are really overpriced and not worth it at all, also a chaos runesword really isnt needed for a lord whose already a combat monster, a crown of everlasting conquest would be better than the eye of tzeentch because he's got a 1+ save as it is and is mainly going to be in combat and not getting shot up (hopefully you dont roll 1's on look out sir rolls) so a 1+ save and then a 4+ regen is goingto keep him alive nicely. id be prepared to run the risk of a GW and helm of many eyes combo on him to be honest. 5 S7 hits ASF will normally do the trick.

id mount the sorcerers on discs to keep them out of combat and maximise there megical potential. great to zip down the flanks to marchblock and blast magic missiles at shooty units or warmachines. power stones are bit pointless with tzeentches +1 to cast with the mark. a power familiar would be better throughout the game.

not sure 3 units of throwing axe horsemen is needed. maybe 1 unit of axemen and 2 with flails.

if you did everything im suggesting here you could have around 200pts free to buy plenty of hounds to help screen your knights and bait things with.

i was thinking that maybe a fast cav list isnt the best maybe having some static combat res would be nice

Zoat
08-10-2008, 06:13
That character is a real monster!!!

Ok I see how you intend to play. It is not my way but I think it could work. :)

Your second army looks better for the task. With full command you get that vital point of CR. Also with most of your units being 5 + character there is a better chance of getting 4+ men into combat. 3 or fewer will loose to a ranked regiment.

A few ideas:

* The WarBanner is probably your friend. Another point of CR!
* A BSB is along the same line. More CR!
* Make the knights regiment without character 6 men. 5 can be shot down to 3 too easily.
* Get some Warhounds! They can be deployed first, thus scouting the enemy battleline. Early in the game they may attract arrows from knights/marauders. Late (if they live) 3 of them is enough to negate rank bonus.

As I said I don't really play this way, so perhaps I'm just confusing you! :)

lector#1
08-10-2008, 07:09
yeah i dont normally play this way im too used to 2 mounted units and a whole bunch of infantry due to the old costs of knights and so on but now i will enjoy this list ill try a few different ways to play the list that way i dont get bored with the same list

bork da basher
08-10-2008, 08:43
was thinking that maybe a fast cav list isnt the best maybe having some static combat res would be nice

i think the opposite, i think chaos cannot now compete using infantry heavy lists unless its the marauder horde concept. warriors are superb but only when they make it into combat and M4 and their huge expense means they're a walking bullseye. if you play against even a moderatly shooty or magic heavy army they wont make it halfway accross the table in most cases. way too many armies include flyers, skirmishers, scouts etc that can march block chaos infantry and we have little able to deal with it which just slows you down even more. its ok to have a couple of units of fast stuff but unless its reliable enough to survive on its own and unsupported i say go either one way or t'other.

if im going to use infantry it'll be marauders and i'll spend my big points on knights units who stand a chance of making it into combat on the second turn and who will almost always get the charge off whereas with warriors if you survive to see combat you'll likely be the one being charges, flanked and run down. its a simple matter of speed, efficiency and cost evaluation and knights win every time for me.

i say stick with the concept you've got and refine it.

lector#1
08-10-2008, 12:50
yeah i was thinking.. with the second list maybe cut one unit of knights for a bsb and another unit of horsemen for the numbers

LION
08-10-2008, 13:59
:angel:Hi again Lector...Still trying to balance an Army with that big crazy Dragon Ogre Super Model? If you do take SunEater I still think you need to go with two Dragon Ogre Units to keep theme & avoid C:cheese:Heese Out.

I liked your ideas with MCav DOgres & Less Knights LION

--------------------------------------------------
Lions Weekly Bits Box Blitz Sponsored by Elf Glue
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165087 (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165087)

lector#1
09-10-2008, 06:33
at the moment im trying to balance out that list.... but i think kolek will be better in 3k points and in my 2000points every so often im thinking 2 sorcerers and a lord might be better but im just not sure on it.... ohwell im buying the new archaon neways (lord model not archaon) and ill try both out doesnt matter really i like having 2 different 2k point lists for different opponents =D if they are all combat models ill use koleks list and if they have more range ill use the second list

lector#1
09-10-2008, 11:42
ok this is a list modified from the one that doesnt include kolek, ive scratch down some units and threw in another sorcerer what are your thoughts???

Chaos Lord Lugrisk
chaos runesword, crown of everlasting conquest, chaos steed - 334

Sorcerer, level 2
mark of tzeentch
Dispell scroll, chaos steed - 146

Sorcerer, level 2
mark of tzeentch
Dispell scroll, chaos steed - 146

Sorcerer, level 2
mark of tzeentch
Dispell scroll, chaos steed - 146

5 marauder horsmen
Throwing axes - 75

5 marauder horsmen
Throwing axes - 75

5 marauder horsmen
Throwing axes - 75

5 chaos knights
Full command - 250

5 chaos knights
Full command - 250

5 chaos knights
Full command - 250

5 chaos knights
Full command - 250

if i was going to throw kolek in i would take out the lord and 2 sorcerers to fit him in and we will see who is better (if some 1 cries cheese ill tell them to shove it and be a man!!! 8D)

Driazine
10-10-2008, 08:52
this might not be quite in with your playing style but this is an approximate list my friend runs which pisses off a large amount of people:

Chaos lord
dragn
sword that gives you extra attacks
mok

2x 5 marauder horsemen with flails

10 marauders

few units of dogs

few units of knights with mok

hell cannon

basically you charge while the 10 marauders babysit the cannon

in reference to your list, i really dont think it is necessary to have full commands on your 5 strong chaos knight units and id go with flails on the horsemen which makes them pack quite a punch if you decide to flank with them.

lector#1
10-10-2008, 12:24
ok yeah not my style i dont like any model that has a good chance of munching my own units, i like my ranged units reliable, and on another note i dont use a chaos lord on dragon any more because every time i ran him id get chopped down first round of shooting, the reason why he has crown of everlasting conquest is because having regen on a lord is just mean =D (for my opponent) and in a unit of knights will just own, he is ment to have a sheild i forgot to add it in, i was going to take the champions out of the knight units, and was thinking of getting a tooled up exalted champion or bsb instead of my 3rd mage.

and the horsmen ave TA so that they dont have to commit to combat with the mages in the units.

im in the process of a few changes to the list will post asap

.Lector#1.