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untimention
06-10-2008, 21:01
Ok so i had a bash at a 2000point army list.

I like it but i'm sure people till tear it to shreads so tell me what you think, what i shoud look at changing.

Lord:

Grimgor Ironhide himself

Hero's

Orc Shamen - level 2
Night Goblin Shamen
Goblin big boss with spear, light armour, shield and Giant Spider

Core:

12 Orc Boyz with double choppa's
10 arrer boyz
15 orc boyz with spear and shield
10 arrer boyz
20 night goblins with full command + of course 3 fanatics
8 spider riders

Special

19 black orcs - full command + shields as standard
Orc chariot
Rock Lobba
2 Spear Chukka's

Rare

Snotling pumpwagon
Giant (tempted to swap for 3 stone trolls)

Braad
07-10-2008, 07:55
Remove the spear from the gobbo big boss and give him martog's best bashe. 15 points, grants +1 S and some other stuff every turn, not only on the charge.

I would not take Grimgor. He is nice to play some time, but to be honest, he is too powerfull to actually be fun, and if he is in a unit and that unit is flanked (and Grimgor can't fight) then you got a very expensive unit that is likely to run. Also, taking a normal BO warboss instead frees up a lot of points.

And those points can be spend on your core. 12/15 boyz? 20 gobbo's? Nah, take a bit more is what I say. Orc 25, gobbo's 30.
Take away one fanatic, take nets instead. They are good. -1 S won't affect your gobbo's much (they are weak anyway) so the downside effect of a 1 in 6 chance of having less S is far outwheighed by the enemy having that.
Drop the spears on the Boyz. Choppa+Shield is better, with the S bonus and 4+ AS to the front in CC.

2x 10 arrer boyz is okay.
8 Spider riders? Maybe two units of 5 would be nicer? If one flees or fails animosity, you still got one left.

Chariot, Rock Lobba, Spear Chukka's, pump wagon and giants... All very nice choices.
Only comment, maybe you should include some heavy cav. You lack a bit there.

Enough shredding?

Okay, more: Drop the shields on the black orcs, give them the banner of butchery. That item is priceless. They can take nearly any charge when they got that. Use great axes against monsters or very heavy armoured troops, or 2 choppa's vs any infantry.

Command groups:
Give the arrer boyz only a musician.
The other boyz full command.
Or join the 20 arrer boyz together, give them full command. Deploy them in a wide line and shoot. When the enemy get through the other boyz and too close to the arrers, refrom into 5x4, and suddenly you got a killy ranked block of boyz.

Gharof von Carstein
07-10-2008, 08:21
i tend to agree on grimgor. but by all means use the model. just use it as a normal warboss. special characters are great and all but from what iv learned with VC is double true with O&G and that is that the freed up points service you far more than taking that kick ass special char. my mannfred doubles as my vampire lord with dread knight ability. i only ever use special chars in big games. if i do even that.

iv played a O&G player often that uses nothing but black orcs and wolfriders etc with grimgor in there. his army is tough no doubt but due to lack of points lacks greatly in the department of adaptibility. if i make a list to combat his fast cav and tarpit his grimgor he always loses.

w3rm
07-10-2008, 20:49
drop grimgor and pump up yer boyz but keep the fannatics. they are great for cav. also i reccomend 2 units of night goblins. your opponent knows what unit they will be in and he can just stay away and shoot them. your army is fine but nuthin fer 0&g can beat a black orc bb on a boar with a good ol magic weapon. oh and drop the sheilds on the black orks and take some boar boyz with the points u freed up from droppin grimgor oh and your army list is illegal, grimgor takes up an extra hero choice

untimention
07-10-2008, 21:57
i am liking the feedback guys i will be reading again tomorrow after work in my warhammer room.

i didnt see in the newer version of the O&G rules grimgor takes a hero choice and a lord choice, he is just down as lord.

I may well drop him and use a black orc boss instead.

I cant take choppa and shield boyz because i dont have the models.

I took 8 spider riders because actually i had points left over and thought why not take them. I may increase these and the night goblins from the points i save from grimgor oh and some boyz.

I will def make note to the magical items suggested as this is exactly where i lack knowledge.

I am surprised that no one has knocked me taking a giant... i was reading the rules and for 205points you take a big risk... with the other option being trolls however my idea of taking grimgor and a giant was to have the giant close by (not to close due to falling over) to soak up some fire power.

Arrer boyz, i dont care if they die, if they do oh well they surved a perpose and will soak up some combat. Im thinking two units just so i can seperate who they attack.

I look forward to reading more

and thanks again

Urgat
07-10-2008, 23:33
Well, I'd take the trolls (well, I take trolls, in fact), but that's because I'm a fan of these guys. They hurt, and they can take about anything that is not flaming. They're way more resilient than a giant, if you want to draw fire to them (well, so to speak :p). And if you want to keep them/the giant near the general, the stupidity won't be a big problem either.
And about the choppas: convert them :p choppas really are better than spears. I'd only consider spears for big'un or savage orc units, and then again, probably not.

Jwolf
08-10-2008, 04:32
I play with Grimgor, and he's great against lots of stuff I never really get to figth, it seems.
Grimgor does only take a Lord choice; w3rm is living in the past, I fear.
I'd change the gobbo for a BO BSB with martogs, ench shield, nibbla;s itty ring, on a boar.
I use a large block of big 'uns with shields and give them the spirt totem. The Black Orcs will draw all the fire in the universe, so you'll have the extra 3 DD for most of the game, which is very nice against VC and Daemons (the two most common armies in tournaments).

Oh, and I'm just getting into Fantasy, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

untimention
08-10-2008, 18:02
silly question. Can a hero have a enchanted item?

untimention
08-10-2008, 18:43
Ok i have sat down as promised and came up with two options taking out grimgor which seems a good option for what I can get in return:

Option 1:

Black Orc Warboss - Heavy Armour + shield
Nogg's banner for the black orcs
7 additional spider riders to create a squad of 10 and a smaller squad of 5
20 night goblins with spears + full command - will use one fantatic in this squad and two in the other at the back by the war machines thus helping out with fast cav or flying comes and attackes.
Nibba's itty ring

Option 2:
Black Orc Warboss - Heavy Armour + shield
Nogg's banner for the black orcs
two spider riders
Nibba's itty ring
Morks spirit totem
13 double choppa boys + full command - will add this two the exisiting 15 boys and the command. This will bring the squad to 28 making it 5 ranks and thus giving them morks spirit totem in turn 1 & 2 will increase the dispell dice while shamens/wizards are alive.

So what are the views?

untimention
09-10-2008, 11:23
any help? any views?

Braad
09-10-2008, 13:12
Yes, a hero can take an enchanted item. Any hero can take any item except for arcane items and magic banners. Banners are only allowed on the battle standard bearer and on units that have the allowance for 1 (like big 'uns, boar boyz) and arcane items can only be taken by characters with a magic level.

Its easier for us to judge if you just post the two full lists instead of only adaptations...
BUT!
If you take two shamans, you don't really need the spirit totem in an all-comers list. If you expect something magic heavy like a VC army, then its nice, but otherwise often a bit of wasted points. Instead you could put a nice big sword on the general.

Spider riders: of you take 15, make 3 units of 5. Units of 10 are not advisable.

I think 25 boyz is enough.
But now, please post a complete list...

On a side note, I also have quite a few special character models. But I only use (or better: plan to use, haven't done so yet) Skarsnik and Grom the Paunch as the actual character, since those models cannot be used as something else. The others are just nice models for normal bosses and shamans.

untimention
09-10-2008, 15:47
Just realised i cant take the totem anyways as i only have the black orcs who can take a magical banner.

That free's up 50 points. Im tempted not to take a rock lobba because the damage it causes againt the points it costs plus it's going to be assaulted early on.

But i really like it so i think i will keep it.

Thanks for the clear up.

I will re-list the army options later after work

Re spider riders the idea being 1 unit of 10 that is stronger, and full command and 1 unit of 5 that can be used to annoy war machines.

untimention
10-10-2008, 11:44
Ok new list I was doing at 1:00am this morning.

LORD

Black Orc Warboss
Heavy armour, 6pts
Magical Item: Enchanted shield – 15pts

HEREOS

Orc Shaman
Level 2 – 35pts 1 Dispell Scroll 25pts

Nt Goblin Shaman

Goblin Big Boss
Spear 2pts, light armour 2pts, Shield 2pts, Spider 40pts
Itty Ring (bound spell 3)


TROOPS

25 Orc Boyz
Additional choppa, full command

20 Arrer Boyz – two squads of 10

15 Orc Boyz
Spear 1pt & Shield 1pt

20 Nt Goblins
Short Bows 1 pt, Full command, 3 Fanatics

10 Spider Rider
full command

2 Snotling bases


SPECIAL

19 Black Orcs
Nogg’s banner

Orc Chariot

Rock Lobber

2 Speak Chukka


RARE

Pump Wagon

Giant

I think this is a much better list and adds more troops and strength in other areas from dropping Grimgor and taking a BO Lord who isnt bad at all. Esp with his 3+ save and 2+ in combat if he uses choppa and shield as he still has 4 attacks.

The black orcs are DEADLY if they get into combat. 2 attacks if using choppas so if they charge you get 8 attacks plus 4 lord attacks and if i use the banner i get a further 5 attacks giving a total of 17 attacks from black orcs

untimention
10-10-2008, 23:18
any views?

untimention
12-10-2008, 21:51
no one to comment?

Nighthawke
12-10-2008, 22:13
Ok new list I was doing at 1:00am this morning.

LORD

Black Orc Warboss
Heavy armour, 6pts
Magical Item: Enchanted shield – 15pts

not hard enough hitting personaly,

HEREOS

Orc Shaman
Level 2 – 35pts 1 Dispell Scroll 25pts
need another scroll

Nt Goblin Shaman
needs to have the sneaky staff

Goblin Big Boss
Spear 2pts, light armour 2pts, Shield 2pts, Spider 40pts
Itty Ring (bound spell 3)
give him sneaky skewer

TROOPS

25 Orc Boyz
Additional choppa, full command
good

20 Arrer Boyz – two squads of 10
drop these altogether

15 Orc Boyz
Spear 1pt & Shield 1pt
drop spears and increase to 25

20 Nt Goblins
Short Bows 1 pt, Full command, 3 Fanatics
get rid of bows and give netters, increase to 25 or 30

10 Spider Rider
full command
split into2 groups of 5 with musicions or however you spell it

2 Snotling bases
drop these or at least tale 4 to prtect on unit or boyz

SPECIAL

19 Black Orcs
Nogg’s banner
good but make 25 and give full command

Orc Chariot

Rock Lobber

2 Speak Chukka
these three are good

RARE

Pump Wagon
depends on your preference here but either take two pump wagons or none, id say take a doom diver

Giant
agian good hard hitting, i eitehr take this or 3/4 stone trolls



hope these help a little, your lord really depends on your preference but mines usually martogs, kicken boots then anything else really, or scearmin sword and boots

untimention
12-10-2008, 22:18
the bad thing is you've asked me to increse by loads of points in lots of area's.

I only have 2000

Nighthawke
12-10-2008, 22:22
funny, i seem to make it fit lol, well bar the black orcs as they are a huge points sonk that your oppenent will try very hard not to let into combat

without the black orcs it sounds about right
so either drop the giant and goblins or lose the black orcs really

untimention
16-10-2008, 19:03
my game is on monday.

I am going to take off the snotlings and add an extra dispell scoll and that sneaky goblin thing ( -3 save) as that can do some damage to a character that isnt expecting it. Boof +2 save model gets hit 3 times, wounded twice, -4 save 6+ thank you very much, and he is on a gigantic spider

What everyone think to the change and list?

Coram_Boy
17-10-2008, 18:30
I used to play O&G in 5th gen so my knowledge is a leeetle incomplete. arent arra boys not worth their points? I seem to recall that they are 8 points and not worth the 2 night goblins with bows their value could have bought... please correct me if I'm wrong...