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apbevan
07-10-2008, 18:07
how does frenzy screening work?

If I put a Varghulf 2" in front of a unit of Blood Knights and there is a enemy unit directly infront of the Blood Knights within their charge range do the Blood Knights have to charge even thou its impossible to make it because of the Varghulf 2" in front of the Knights?

Does this force the Blood Knights to make a failed Charge?

Anton
07-10-2008, 18:14
As far as I know, yes, they will have to attempt to charge, and thus fail.

SolarHammer
07-10-2008, 18:27
No. They have to charge only when they can make the charge. So for example, if the Varghulf was making a charge against the same or a different enemy, then the Blood Knights would also be forced to charge, as the charging Varghulf would get out of the way opening a target for the knights.

There was a developer commentary on how this worked, but I can't find it at the moment.

DeathlessDraich
07-10-2008, 18:29
The charge distance is measured *before* declaring frenzied charges.
If there are no units within charge reach the frenzied unit does not declare a charge.

apbevan
07-10-2008, 21:01
Arrg, conflicting answers everywhere.
Blood Knights are the first Frenzy unit I have used, but I figured a tactic like frenzy screening would have been around for a long time.

Any long time Khorne players want to answer on this subject?
I am going to a tournament and want to know how to use frenzy properly... I might end up having to use fell bats to cover the front of my blood knights.

I appreciate those that have responded already.

Festus
07-10-2008, 21:28
Hi

If the Frenzied unit cannot complete the charge, it is not compelled to charge.
If there are friendly troops blocking its way,the unit cannot and may not charge.

Festus

splat
10-10-2008, 12:26
ok so what if you do something like this:

varghulf is in front of knights. knights can see around varg.
you declare a charge with varg. knights declare charge at different target.

will you be able to still charge with the knights since a charge was declared even though they would have been unable to frenzy charge?

Festus
10-10-2008, 12:46
Hi

The frenzied units only declare their charges after all other charge declarations have been made, so the frenzied unit already is free to declare a charge that is likely to work.

Festus

Gazak Blacktoof
10-10-2008, 13:44
I'm sure I posted something similar in another thread and had other posters shouting me down. I believe their counter was that within the frenzy rules it states that the enemy must be "within charge reach" of the frenzied troops and that at the time of meauring the interposing unit meant that they weren't within charge reach.

Festus
10-10-2008, 15:50
Simple solution:

Don't let yourself get shouted down! ;)

Festus

Gazak Blacktoof
10-10-2008, 15:56
That might come back to haunt you!;)

VC Doke
10-10-2008, 16:56
I'm sure I posted something similar in another thread and had other posters shouting me down. I believe their counter was that within the frenzy rules it states that the enemy must be "within charge reach" of the frenzied troops and that at the time of meauring the interposing unit meant that they weren't within charge reach.

He is correct. In the Frenzy section, second paragraph of the rulebook verbatim:
In the declare charges part of the movement phase, after the charges of all non-Frenzied troops have been declared (including relative charge reactions), measure to see if any enemies are within charge reach of any Frenzied troops (ie, within the units charge move and in their normal line of sight). If so, the Frenzied unit must declare a charge against that enemy. The player has no choice in the matter; the unit will automatically make its charge move. If there are several eligible units within the charge reach of the Frenzied unit, the controlling player may decide which unit to charge.

Problem: if you can see around a unit in front, you must charge if you can measure the distance. It doesn't count difficult terrain or units that may block your charge. You must charge!

Solution: charge the Vargulf in along with the Blood Knights. The unit you hit is fubar!
Otherwise, put a line of dire wolves in front of the knights and block all line of sight until you're ready to charge in. This also provides an effective magic/shooting screen for the 55 pt. per model BK. Not to mention you're allowing your wolves to march AND you're not putting all of your good models on one side of the table making your poor zombies fend for themselves.

Gazak Blacktoof
10-10-2008, 17:06
I think what you're arguing there is something different. You're saying that you ignore intervening units and terrain for the purposes of "charge reach".

What I've said previously (and I think what Festus is saying) is that you ignore units that can reasonably be considered to have moved out of the way when it is time to physically move the frenzied unit to attempt to complete its charge because they've also declared a charge or might have moved out of the way by some other means.

Festus
11-10-2008, 11:41
Hi

...and I think what Festus is saying...
Yes, that is exactly what I meant.

Festus