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View Full Version : 2250 VC, getting back into Fantasy so need advice



blkdymnd
08-10-2008, 04:53
I'm getting back into fantasy with Vampire Counts. I have not played the new book but have built a list at least. Some of this is themed, I wanted Corpse Carts and a heavy zombie presense (mostly this list would be what you pull right out of a graveyard Thriller style) :D

Vampire Lord
Zombie Dragon
+1 Magic level
Master of black arts
Dark acolyte
Summon Ghouls
Flayed Hauberk
Scepter de Noirot

Necromancer
+1 Spell
Black Pariapt
Dispel Scroll

Necromancer
+1 Spell
Book of Arkhan

3 Corpse Carts
all with Balefire

3 X 20 Zombies

15 Ghouls

2 X 5 Dire Wolves

4 Black Knights
Barding
Standard with Standard of Strigos

4 Black Knights
Barding

2 Varghulfs

Vam2tic
08-10-2008, 07:21
Zombie dragons are a huge point sink and to be honest i don't think there worth it. Plus it will draw a lot of attention to your lord from shooting and magic. i would drop the zombie dragon and maybe try and fit a ward save on your lord. Even the gem of blood can be useful in case of that sneaky KB that might get through. i would also drop maybe two of th zombie units and one corpse cart to either get more ghouls or some skeletons with hand weapon and shield. Zombies are useful but 3 units won't do much at the start of the game. the problem is that you don't really have that much good troops at the moment. Also why four black knights. i would try to make them up to 5 or 6 at least. Maybe drop a necro in order to get a vamp on nightmare or wight king to go in with them and use them to flank charge.
Sorry i have been a bit sceptical of your list and i hope you might think about some of the changes

Just my 2 cents

Vam2tic

Mullitron
08-10-2008, 07:42
I agree that your list is missing a bit of punch. The valgulfs and zombie dragon are good against certain units however you seem to be lacking anything to help break big blocks of infantry. If your opponent manages to use their magic/shooting to weaken your lord and vargulfs and then uses some nasty combo to finish them off youve lost. If you really want to take the dragon do so (it is great model imo) but i would advice as already said dropping the dragon giving your lord a bit more protection and introducing more knights and adding some ghouls. But thats just my opinion

blkdymnd
08-10-2008, 16:20
I will consider the dragon and dropping it. Dropping any of the zombies and or corpse carts I really don't want to do as I still want it themed a bit. I think I have a decent chance of breaking some bigger blocks of troops as I do have 6 fast possible flanking units on top of fear causers, maybe i'm wrong (a 7th if I still use the dragon).

How would you guys kit out a magic heavy lord that I want to be able to still summon zombies with without the dragon?

Vam2tic
08-10-2008, 16:34
i think that your vamp lord is fine but if you want it purely for summoning maybe exchange dark acolyte with forbidden lore so you know all the spells from the vampire lore. then maybe add crown of the damned to give your lord a ward save. i have never failed my LD 10 stupidity test

Gharof von Carstein
08-10-2008, 17:30
man i can remember finishing my lord on zombie dragon and wanting to field it anytime.

till you do and you noticed that well, that 20 point steed isnt looking too bad... gives the same +1 to AS and costs so much less.. :) easily translated a dragon is basically 2 ghoul units your missing... thats a lot of poison attacks that the dragon cant ever hope to match :) the only reason ill ever field a dragon again is for a combat oriented VC lists ranking 3k or more. its tough luck cuz it looks awesome but i do proxy it now and than for a abyssal terror.

blkdymnd
09-10-2008, 02:46
well, I do have to change something, I overlooked that Black Knights start at 5 models, not 4 :) I'll redo a bit here and there and post a revised list tonight.

blkdymnd
09-10-2008, 03:09
Ok, here is a revised list...

Vampire Lord
Master of the Black Arts
Dark Acolyte
Summon Ghouls
Hellsteed
+ 1 Magic Level
Flayed Hauberk
Crown of the Damned
Scepter of Noirot

Necromancer (On a Corpse Cart, probably in a ghoul unit)
+1 Spell
2 Dispel Scrolls

Necromancer (On a Corpse Cart, probably in a ghoul unit)
+1 Spell
Book of Arkhan

3 Corpse Carts
all with Balefire

3 X 20 Zombies

2 X 15 Ghouls

2 X 5 Dire Wolves

5 Black Knights
Barding
Standard Bearer
Banner of the Barrows

5 Black Knights
Barding

2 Varghulfs

Kalec
09-10-2008, 05:10
Do not put the crown on your lord. You can not afford to have him sit out a magic phase because his dunce cap made him stupid for the turn, it will cost you games. Wristbands or nightshround are good enough for protection along with the hauberk, or you could take dread knight with walachs hauberk. Remember that if you take dread knight, you cannot take a different steed, so this would not work if you want to keep the hellsteed. Speaking of which, a flying lord really needs a good ward save. I recommend wristbands because he shouldn't be in combat, and they don't make him stupid.

Also, 3 balefires is a bit much. As are 3 units of zombies. Drop a cart, drop the zombies, grab another unit of ghouls, and grab a vampire. You could really benefit from a cheap bsb to help out your infantry.

blkdymnd
09-10-2008, 05:31
After reading the Nightshroud and knowing a player of ours plays Dark Elves, I think I'll go that route. Probably do both Wristbands and Nightshroud since I can't wear both the Hauberk and Nightshroud.

As far as the zombies go, read up a few posts I've explained that once, and since 3 balefires are cumulative, they aren't a bit much to make a caster drop up to 3 points on thier casting. Not to mention, spread out right, the 3 bound spells on the carts could make for a great charge.

LION
09-10-2008, 11:54
;) Not so sure on the newer list. Your Lord is still going to be targeted in that small BNight Unit and I would personaly bight your brain on the right side & Bring back the Zombie Dragon + give him Blade of Blood. As your not using the 4th slot because of your Zombie Necromancer Theme then Dragon could be viable...

Two Varghulfs are great in combo with a Dragon Rider if Enemy List is CWeak but Magic Heavy

:angel:Unless I can convince you into droping a Cart & a NecroMancer for a nice little Vampire Power Caddy.....then I'll leave it at that. Like the Zombie Theme LION

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blkdymnd
09-10-2008, 20:58
Alright, well dragon in or out, I'm going to try it with the Hellsteed first. I will be picking up the dragon at some point anyway, so I'll be trying it both ways. I probably will run the Lord outside of the black knights though and just keep him to the back using the flight of the Hellsteed as his escape mobility as he is more of a Necromancer Lord to me than he is a Vampire Lord. And if someone does get to him, hopefully the nightshroud will get him out of it.

PopeAlexanderVI
09-10-2008, 21:14
You probably don't need 3 CC for an all-comers list, I'd say 2 at most for 2250.

Don't buy zombies, you have a magic heavy lord so just raise them and use the points elsewhere. Drop all the zombies and get a third unit of ghouls. Give your vampires the summon ghouls gift.

No reason to take Necromancers when you can take Vampires instead. They aren't much more expensive and are better. You could also consider a Wight King to be a BSB or go with black knights.

Have the Dire Wolves in units of 7 including a champion. If you do so then you can send them at things like greater daemons and challenge, you'll get beat down but there will still be one wolf left after crumbling. This lets you tie up a 600 point unit for 2 turns with a cheap wolfpack.

PopeAlexanderVI
09-10-2008, 21:19
Also, if you want to bring a dragon then retool your lord for combat. He can be a good combat unit if you give him Dreadlance, Cadaverous Cuirass, Black Periapt for items and Red Fury/Walking Death/Summon Ghouls.

Helveticus
09-10-2008, 21:30
The best way I've seen to use VC so far is to run up your big blocks of anvils, let the other guy get stuck in on them with casters in the back refreshing unit strength, then come down the flanks with a hammer or two getting flank charges and auto-breaking them.

blkdymnd
09-10-2008, 21:31
alright... again for the reason I will not remove any zombies/corpse carts, see the many posts above covering that.

blkdymnd
09-10-2008, 21:35
The best way I've seen to use VC so far is to run up your big blocks of anvils, let the other guy get stuck in on them with casters in the back refreshing unit strength, then come down the flanks with a hammer or two getting flank charges and auto-breaking them.

Which is pretty much the premise of the this list in a nutshell

VC Doke
10-10-2008, 03:58
If you're not going to remove any CC, I'd suggest replacing two Balefires with two Lodestones. Or one and one at least.

Also, buy musicians for the zombies always. You never know when a tie makes someone run for 4 points.

Second list looks good!

blkdymnd
10-10-2008, 13:48
Lodestones don't seem worth it to me. 25 points for one wound per turn? Or am I missing something?

VC Doke
10-10-2008, 15:47
They're better than that.

You get it for each invocation. If a lodestone is near ethereal troops, you get an additional wound back. If they're near cavalry, you get an additional wound back. If they're near other monsters (including itself), you get an additional wound back.

blkdymnd
10-10-2008, 17:47
They're better than that.

You get it for each invocation. If a lodestone is near ethereal troops, you get an additional wound back. If they're near cavalry, you get an additional wound back. If they're near other monsters (including itself), you get an additional wound back.


Thats a good point, i'll definatley reconsider. thanks.

Malorian
10-10-2008, 18:24
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The book says that things like etheral units can only one every get back 1 wound per casting.

I looked in the FAQ and it' not covered there, but I think the book is pretty clear.

(I'd love to be proved wrong though)

Nukem
10-10-2008, 18:26
They're better than that.

You get it for each invocation. If a lodestone is near ethereal troops, you get an additional wound back. If they're near cavalry, you get an additional wound back. If they're near other monsters (including itself), you get an additional wound back.

+1!!
Getting that extra wound back on my Black Knights has held my flank more than once, the loadstone's are worth the price, however I really would only have one.

The dreadlance + redfury combo on a zombie dragon is just too awesome. My vamp lord has tooled a unit of 15 questing knights by himself. I also give him walking death just as a safety net for that all important break test following the pain lol.

Cheers,
Colin

Nukem
10-10-2008, 18:28
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The book says that things like etheral units can only one every get back 1 wound per casting.

I looked in the FAQ and it' not covered there, but I think the book is pretty clear.

(I'd love to be proved wrong though)

Not too sure if it works on etherial units because the only time I have them is after I cast wind of undeath, however as I read it cav models will Regen 2 wounds. If anything just summon undead horde that will get it done :P

blkdymnd
11-10-2008, 14:56
I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The book says that things like etheral units can only one every get back 1 wound per casting.

I looked in the FAQ and it' not covered there, but I think the book is pretty clear.

(I'd love to be proved wrong though)

I don't believe thats correct. Invocation of Nehek does indeed say that models with the Vampire, Ethereal unit rule, and non-infantry units cannot gain more than one wound from Invocation of Nehek.

Corpse Cart is not casting Invocation of Nehek. The Unholy Lodestone is a trigger effect caused by Invocation of Nehek. And it specifically states that only Vampire units are unaffected by the Unholy Lodestone. So all units except Vampire units should be able to use the Unholy Lodestone effect. ie, A Cairn Wraith unit that has Invocation of Nehek cast on them and are within 6" of a Corpse Cart would gain one wound back for Nehek and one for the trigger effect of the Lodestone.

VC Doke
11-10-2008, 17:08
Ya the corpse carts are ridiculous in combat. They don't hurt much, but they don't die either.

I was once charged by a Empire BSB, Karl Franz (with the d3 wounding, autowounding hammer), and a fat unit of Knights. All I had left was a necromancer ridding a corpse cart with the cursed book.

FORGOT to challenge so only one model attacks my poor necromancer. Anyway, I burned the book so everyone hit on 5's. STILL, got hit and wounded 9 times. I had two wounds on my cart before combat.

Anyway, I ended up losing combat by 9, due to necro dying. The corpse cart made all of the regeneration save during combat. Well, I rolled regeneration 9 times, because of the loss and SAVED 8!

The next turn it tipped over THEN our unit of Grave Guard with Vamp Hero and Lord came screaming in. In a challenge, the Lord assasinated Franz with the Flaming Sword + Red Fury. Max overkill baby!

Sarael
13-10-2008, 08:00
I would NEVER use a large mount in a 2k game, for ANY general. Bad enough that he's got a big target on him, but stick him out in the open like that and you make it an easier to hit target.

ALWAYS stick your vamp general in a unit of ghouls or HW&S Skels. Nothing else is acceptable except GG or the occasional big unit of Black Knights.

At 3k though, sure, take that big bad vampire count on a zombie D. He'll at least keep the cannons off the rest of your army for a turn or 2.

Are you sure you can take BKs in units of 4? I thought min was 5...

You have no punch, as has been said before, and vargs just don't cut it. Your list is begging for a dread knight vamp, or a winged horror w/ GW.

Oh, one more thing: from my experience, if you plan to do a lot of raising on your units, then a single cart with lodestone in the middle of your line can make all the difference.

blkdymnd
13-10-2008, 20:51
I would NEVER use a large mount in a 2k game, for ANY general. Bad enough that he's got a big target on him, but stick him out in the open like that and you make it an easier to hit target.

ALWAYS stick your vamp general in a unit of ghouls or HW&S Skels. Nothing else is acceptable except GG or the occasional big unit of Black Knights.

At 3k though, sure, take that big bad vampire count on a zombie D. He'll at least keep the cannons off the rest of your army for a turn or 2.

Are you sure you can take BKs in units of 4? I thought min was 5...

You have no punch, as has been said before, and vargs just don't cut it. Your list is begging for a dread knight vamp, or a winged horror w/ GW.

Oh, one more thing: from my experience, if you plan to do a lot of raising on your units, then a single cart with lodestone in the middle of your line can make all the difference.


A page back, I adjusted the black night units, forgot they were 5+