PDA

View Full Version : 28mm Inquisitor



Eternus
08-10-2008, 13:21
Spank me with a spatula if this has already been covered - I think I'll have to brace myself for this one.

Does anyone out there play Inquisitor with 28mm Minis, and if so, how do you deal with the difference in measurements for the scale?

Fantastica
10-10-2008, 01:25
well, first off.. there's no amount of cover that's going to save you from the torrent of spatula's that are headed your way..

1cm = 1 yard works great

or if you live somewhere where the metric system is not in use.. I recomend a change in scenery..

Catferret
10-10-2008, 02:39
*incoming spatula*

Now that's out of the way, I shall address your question and leave my opinions out of it. :p

The most common scale is 1 inch=1 yard.

Eternus
10-10-2008, 08:40
*incoming spatula*

Now that's out of the way, I shall address your question and leave my opinions out of it. :p

The most common scale is 1 inch=1 yard.

*Ear grazed by spatula*

Thanks for that. What I meant was, using 54mm minis, 1 yard = 1 Inch, but if you used the same for 28mm Minis, then suddenly all the distances are a lot longer, as the models are half as big.

I imagined it would be either 1 yard = 1 cm, which is the simplest way to deal with it, though not a precise scale down, or halfing all the distances, which would be a pain, so I think I'll go for 1 yard = 1 cm for 28 mm minis.

Thanks for the input.

precinctomega
10-10-2008, 09:24
There are generally three ways of playing scale at 28mm

1. Stick to 1" = 1 yard. It makes movement rates quite horrible, but shooting ranges surprisingly realistic.

2. 1" = 2 yards. This is my preferred method.

3. 1cm = 1 yard. This seems to be popular with Americans, for some reason.

No spatulas, but playing at 28mm is fraught with peril. Attempt at own risk.

R.

Catferret
10-10-2008, 18:48
Actually, I meant 1 inch=2 yards. Oops. In my defence, it was posted at some mad time of night... :rolleyes:

kryptt
11-10-2008, 13:05
Out of curiosity does anybody have pics of =I= games at this scale? I found someone at work who played at this scale. Since he works days and I work nights and we both have busy lives outside of work, we don't have a chance to play. Maybe when our kids get older and can take care of themselves will get the chance.:eyebrows:

Back on topic I'm trying out the half an inch= 1 yard. Lately with the release if 5th ed, =I= has been on the back burner. That an nobody plays here either in the glendale store or the northridge one.

kryptt
11-10-2008, 13:17
To the OP don't worry bout any flak you might get for wanting to play in this scale. I have a few =I= models myself and there great looking and all but I still would like to try games at 28mm. Still for the purest out there (nothing wrong with that btw) they are right the game does look fantastic when playing with the 54mm models. It's just that for those of us with little time and sometimes talent, 28mm is pretty convenient.

You can find a useful article on the pros and cons of gaming at 28mm on precinctomegas =I= site. I think the link is in his sig. I like to think of him as the =I= guru.:)

kaled
11-10-2008, 18:16
Out of curiosity does anybody have pics of =I= games at this scale?Well, not pics of a game - but I have built a 28mm version of my Inquisitor Kaled character, plus an accompanying warband.

28mm Kaled (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inq28/28mm_kaled.jpg)
28mm Kaled + warband (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inq28/28mm_warband.jpg)
28mm / 54mm comparison (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inq28/28mm_54mm_comparison.jpg)

Catferret
11-10-2008, 21:30
Migsula has a sort of Inquisitor thing going on over on Dakkadakka.

=I=munda (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208707.page) he calls it. It's a mix of Necromunda, Inquisitor and Dark Heresy.

Oh, his models are great as well.

kryptt
12-10-2008, 08:59
Well, not pics of a game - but I have built a 28mm version of my Inquisitor Kaled character, plus an accompanying warband.

28mm Kaled (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inq28/28mm_kaled.jpg)
28mm Kaled + warband (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inq28/28mm_warband.jpg)
28mm / 54mm comparison (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inq28/28mm_54mm_comparison.jpg)

Nice work, no I mean great job my man. I love the look of your inquisitor and retinue.

Eternus
13-10-2008, 08:40
To the OP don't worry bout any flak you might get for wanting to play in this scale. I have a few =I= models myself and there great looking and all but I still would like to try games at 28mm. Still for the purest out there (nothing wrong with that btw) they are right the game does look fantastic when playing with the 54mm models. It's just that for those of us with little time and sometimes talent, 28mm is pretty convenient.

You can find a useful article on the pros and cons of gaming at 28mm on precinctomegas =I= site. I think the link is in his sig. I like to think of him as the =I= guru.:)

Thanks for that. The reasoning would be that you can effectively have a game over a much larger area, but with the same sized board, just smaller models. The other thing that made me want to try it out is that there is an abundance of 40k models, but something of a lack of Inquisitor scale models, without having to do a mass of conversion and model building. If I want an Arbites patrol. I have one. If I want a squad of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, I have one. Equally, if I want more 'out there' stuff, like a squad of marines, or something really crazy, like a Penitent Engine, it's all there.

I would like to use a lot of Necromunda models for NPC bad guys.

precinctomega
14-10-2008, 11:54
If I want an Arbites patrol. I have one. If I want a squad of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, I have one. Equally, if I want more 'out there' stuff, like a squad of marines, or something really crazy, like a Penitent Engine, it's all there.

I would like to use a lot of Necromunda models for NPC bad guys

You may wish to bear in mind that having more than six models on the table will substantially slow down play. I pride myself on running a fast game but even I tend to draw the line at ten models on the table. Most novice GMs are well advised to keep it to six at the tops.

This is, in fact, part of the problem with Inq28: that players think that "anything goes" - they swamp the table (usually with gangers, zombies or genestealers) and discover that their players get bored and wander away. A good game of INQ should have your players clinging to the edge of the board with their fingernails if someone tries to drag them away!

Inq28 is, in essence, no better and no worse than "proper" INQ. The problem lies in the doors it opens up in players' and GMs' minds. If you find your hand starting to hover over a dreadnought or greater daemon of any sort, do your best to resist.

A good tip is to remember that every model on the tabletop has a "narrative gravity" based upon its potential impact upon every other model. A model with a bolt pistol has greater narrative gravity than one with just a knife. A space marine possesses huge narrative gravity (put one on the tabletop and everything will revolve around the marine unless you're very, very clever). A daemon likewise. A greater daemon or dreadnought will act like a great big narrative black hole, sucking every Action towards it.

A similar thing applies to "squads". INQ is a game of individuals working as a team, rather than of squads. If you use a squad of essentially-identical troops, you detract from their narrative gravity overall. I have a squad of "faceless grunts" (literally, as they all wear masks and black fatigues) who are used specifically because of this effect: I can barely remember which is which and no one cares when they die. They're grunts and their only purpose is to be shot by the heroes.

R.

rcal13
01-11-2008, 06:05
One way that my group delt witht the 28mm and the tendancy to go into masses, was Each modela had to be a conversion or sratch built. I had three gaurds men that where almost the same but each one took me many hour to make and each had differnce so I could tell them apart and because of the work I put into them I never just trow then into some thing I don't think they can handel. the other thing is These three model have secondary task that they are modeled to do and make them feel like they are speicail/ One is a demo man one is a scout, and the third well Flamble thing tend to burn with him around, the third one has caused so great havoc to the enamies and even caused My Inquistior to have his hand burn and needed a boinic replacement.

kaled
01-11-2008, 10:27
One way that my group delt witht the 28mm and the tendancy to go into masses, was Each modela had to be a conversion or sratch built. I had three gaurds men that where almost the same but each one took me many hour to makeCan we see pictures? It'd be interesting to have a look at them.

Brother captain Agrippa
21-06-2009, 17:53
i am very much a fan 28mm inq. while not having tried 54mm, and not playing 28mm very much, i think it is not to be underestimated since there is alot of bitz in the 40k range which you can use to build really cool models, and its a hell of alot cheaper. the way i see it, there is only two real problems is the measurement issue, with the models being shorter, and the problem of too many models.

viorlashasui
23-06-2009, 14:29
I personally play at 28mm; I play 40k, so I find it easier to justify buying 28mm guys than 54mm. I've never had a problem with scale using 1" = 1 yard.

Askil the Undecided
23-06-2009, 14:52
=][= 28 makes my soul sad. :cries: and my mind angry :mad: 54mm is so much cooler simply because of the awesome models.

It's also easier to convey a model as a character when it is not dwarfed by my little finger.

Daredhnu
23-06-2009, 17:58
=][= 28 makes my soul sad. :cries: and my mind angry :mad: 54mm is so much cooler simply because of the awesome models.

statements like this make me sad, it's true the 54mm miniatures look absolutely awesome, personally though i do not find them practical.
the 54mm miniatures make stunning modelling projects but i just find that while it's possible to use 40k terrain with them it simply looks off.
and i for one am not fond of the idea of building an entire tables worth of INQ terrain when i have perfectly fine terrain and models to use with said terrain.

in the end though i simply don't get the "nerd rage" when people use 28mm for inquisitor when it's so much more practical.
you have the terrain, you have the models and more than enough parts to create incredible conversions.
as long as people are able to stay away from marines and the like there is nothing wrong with INQ28 in my opinion.

though all of this is my personal opinion offcourse.

kaled
23-06-2009, 18:16
but i just find that while it's possible to use 40k terrain with them it simply looks off.Really? I find it generally looks fine - take these pictures for instance;

An Enslaver incursion - played on one of the 40k tables at WHW. (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inquisitor%20Games/IGT08/IMG_5088.jpg)

A tower guarded by a squad of goons - a game played on one of the Necromunda tables at WHW (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inquisitor%20Games/g3_02_objective.jpg)

An ambush played out on one of the fantasy tables at WHW (some might say the trees are a little small, we just claimed they were small alien shrubs!) (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inquisitor%20Games/IGT08/IMG_5102.jpg)

A Rogue Trader attempts to escape in a Valkyrie - a game played at an event in York using mainly 28mm terrain with a 54mm Valkyrie to spice things up. (http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs032.snc1/4311_100349953280_513298280_1784036_4537107_n.jpg)

Sure, having some dedicated 54mm terrain helps, but a lack of 54mm terrain alone shouldn't be enough to put anyone off playing at the larger scale. (And if all else fails, just use the 'ratling village' excuse! ;))


you have the models and more than enough parts to create incredible conversions.It's rare we get to see any Inq28 models - I have a few, but I'd be interested to see yours. Any chance of some pics?

- Dave

Daredhnu
24-06-2009, 14:10
Really? I find it generally looks fine - take these pictures for instance;

An Enslaver incursion - played on one of the 40k tables at WHW. (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inquisitor%20Games/IGT08/IMG_5088.jpg)

A tower guarded by a squad of goons - a game played on one of the Necromunda tables at WHW (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inquisitor%20Games/g3_02_objective.jpg)

An ambush played out on one of the fantasy tables at WHW (some might say the trees are a little small, we just claimed they were small alien shrubs!) (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inquisitor%20Games/IGT08/IMG_5102.jpg)

A Rogue Trader attempts to escape in a Valkyrie - a game played at an event in York using mainly 28mm terrain with a 54mm Valkyrie to spice things up. (http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs032.snc1/4311_100349953280_513298280_1784036_4537107_n.jpg)

Sure, having some dedicated 54mm terrain helps, but a lack of 54mm terrain alone shouldn't be enough to put anyone off playing at the larger scale. (And if all else fails, just use the 'ratling village' excuse! ;))

It's rare we get to see any Inq28 models - I have a few, but I'd be interested to see yours. Any chance of some pics?

- Dave

honestly those FW ruins do look fine with the 54m models, but i don't have those.
i do have the cities of death buildings, citadel hills and trees and thats about it, oh i also have the necromunda terrain.
i guess i could use the hills and i've not had the chance to compare the trees with a 54mm model yet, the CoD buildings just look kind of smallish to me.
now personally i feel the trees on your pictures look more like very large shrubs, they simply feel wrong to me.
this is just my personal opinion though, i can imagine the hab blocks of lower class citicens being small and cramped but when you require a temple of some sort i always imagined the imperium to be slightly less than subtle with buildings like that so i'd like a very big building for that.
then again for something like that i'd probably only make walls and pillars instead of building an actual cathedral.

i did have a couple of models i made at 28mm scale when i find them i will take some pictures.
though i never did get around to painting them, though i had made an awesome heretical inquisitor in power armour with a daemon weapon.
(note: opinions on how "awesome" my character was/is may vary)

i was also making some scum with the empire militia box and necromunda weapons, not too happy about the results so far though.

i will see about devoting some time to those though, when i'm not busy making my dark eldar army or i want a change of pace.

that valkerie looked absolutely awesome though, i had to look twice to make sure it wasn't the GW/FW model.

precinctomega
24-06-2009, 16:17
you have the terrain, you have the models and more than enough parts to create incredible conversions.
as long as people are able to stay away from marines and the like there is nothing wrong with INQ28 in my opinion.

It's one of those neverending arguments.

All I'll say is: go and do it. If you can run a successful 28mm campaign then more strength to ya. The =I=munda guys do a fantastic job (although it's worth pointing out that their warbands are much larger that is usually sensible in Inquisitor). But more often that not it doesn't work for a whole host of reasons that I've already mentioned at length.

In my club I've introduced Inquisitor (54mm) as a regular game. Players know they can get a good evening's gaming in with a single model, costing less than 20. With most 40k squads now costing more than that it's becoming harder to find games that are that cheap to get into. And our club terrain all works just fine at the larger scale (you saw some of it in the pic with the valkyrie).

R.

Easy E
25-06-2009, 19:51
I agree, I got into INquisitor because it caosts a lot less than 40K. It only takes one model to play, provided you can find some other players.

28mm versus 54mm? It makes no nevermind to me.

kormas
02-07-2009, 08:24
yeah, i have always wanted to get into =I= but my group is all kids (i am a kid as well, but i feel so old when compared to these people :D) i have tried to get people playing =I= using 28mm and it just doesnt work.

ps: are there any forums that are dedicated to =I=

Ancelyn1331
02-07-2009, 08:46
Indeed...

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/

If you have trouble registering contact Dave (Kaled)

kaled
02-07-2009, 18:23
And you probably will have trouble registering, but if you have a look at the link in my sig it'll explain why and how to resolve it - basically just sign up and send me your username and I'll make sure it gets activated ASAP.

MarcoSkoll
02-07-2009, 22:18
On the note of The Conclave, I've not been able to get on today. I keep getting page load errors. Is this a problem on my end, or the forum's?

Ancelyn1331
02-07-2009, 22:20
Nope. I'm having exactly the same problem MarcoSkoll. The server must be down.

kaled
02-07-2009, 22:25
Hope it returns soon - I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms!

That and I've just finished converting my Tech-priestess and have a prototype of her energy blade that I'd like people's opinions on.

Ancelyn1331
02-07-2009, 22:27
Ah, I've been following that thread and I can't wait to see exactly how you've achieved the effect on the blade.

kaled
02-07-2009, 22:35
Well, if the 'Clave doesn't return by the time I get home from work tomorrow I'll post the pics on here.

In an attempt to keep this on-topic - Kormas, I'm curious, what went wrong with your games of Inq28?

MarcoSkoll
02-07-2009, 22:46
Okay, at least I know it's not my computer acting up.

*Wanders away whistling to go back to artwork and/or firearm rules*

Ancelyn1331
03-07-2009, 04:03
On the subject of introductions to ]I[nquisitor (and playing it at 28mm scale), Dave modestly neglected to mention his rather spiffing introduction to the game.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=465

precinctomega
03-07-2009, 10:52
The Conclave is DOWN. If anyone can locate our absent administrator, Isak Strom, please do so as he has the details that will help us to resurrect the forums. Derek and I are working on the problem as well as we can.

R.

Eternus
06-07-2009, 13:51
I used to frequent the Conclave, back in the days when I played more =I=.

The idea for playing in 28mm was that I can go with whatever PC's and NPC's I like, because I have a bucket load of 40K stuff. I love playing Inquisitor in 54mm and love the models, but I am far less restricted if I play in 28mm.

I would play 28mm using the same number of models as in 54mm, it's just more convenient. Plus, if I play 28mm, then a 4'x4' battle area all of a sudden becomes the equivalent of an 8'x8' battle area.

Thanks everyone for all the input. I'm gonna try this out and post back how I got on.

kaled
06-07-2009, 17:38
The idea for playing in 28mm was that I can go with whatever PC's and NPC's I like, because I have a bucket load of 40K stuff.But surely most 40k models are a bit on the powerful side for games of Inquisitor. Also, they're more suited for the front-lines of a warzone than the shadowy battle for the Emperor's soul.

That said, there are some great 28mm models out there that could easily fit into Inquisitor, but if I were playing at 28mm the 40k range is not the first place I'd look for characters.

kormas
08-07-2009, 10:21
Well, if the 'Clave doesn't return by the time I get home from work tomorrow I'll post the pics on here.

In an attempt to keep this on-topic - Kormas, I'm curious, what went wrong with your games of Inq28?


the problem was a lack of good terrain, and also, i wasnt (and am still not) sure how to actualy make the game work, the concept of narritive gaming realy confuses me, so at the moment while i realy like the idea of =I= i have never been able to do anything with it :D

precinctomega
08-07-2009, 14:04
What is it about narrative wargaming that bothers you?

Narrative wargaming isn't unique to Inquisitor. Indeed, the latest UK edition of White Dwarf included a narrative battle between Orks and Imperial Guard. It's really any conflict where the balance of points is abandoned in favour of a confrontation dictated entirely by a coherent story.

Generally speaking, it will mean making up rules on the hoof. But where this is done it shouldn't be done in the service of "balance" but in the service of the narrative. For example, if I wanted to run a game of 40k about a squad of Space Marine scouts infiltrating an Imperial Guard vehicle depot to blow s**t up, and the scouts got spotted too early, I might give them a "stealthy" rule that subtracts 2 from all spot tests (thus, putting firmly back in the sentry's shadows).

Later, if they find getting to their objective too easy, I might add an "alarmed" rule to the fuel bowser they're attempting to blow up so that, on a 1 they fail to set their explosives and set off the alarm; on a 2-5 they set their explosives but also set off the alarm and, on a 6, they set their explosives without setting off the alarm.

If the worst happens and they roll a 6, then I might decide - in order to bring down some much needed fireworks and to give the Guard player something to do at last - that they stumble upon a Guardsman relieving himself by his tank, automatically raising the alarm!

In other words: you make it up as you go along in the name of a good story.

R.

Ynek
08-07-2009, 17:47
In my personal experience, 54mm gaming is by far the preferable option, if nothing else because when you put down a handful of bloodletters in 28mm scale, nobody cares, even if they do have a huge impact on the outcome of the game. But if you put down a single 54mm bloodletter, it will have a massive impact and people will generally be extremely excited and psyched up, even if that singular bloodletter proceeds to tear all their characters new belly buttons.

I know it sounds a bit silly, but just changing the scale of the models does have a huge impact on the way that the players feel about the game, and the mindset that they're in.

I've played Inq28 from time to time, and I tend to find that people look at the game and start slipping into the same mindset that they would adopt when playing games like 40k. They start wanting to play typical 40k archetypes, such as grey knights and farseers, whilst players are less likely to do this at 54mm, because such models are not available over the counter.

Fire_hive
09-07-2009, 04:45
I've played Inq28 from time to time, and I tend to find that people look at the game and start slipping into the same mindset that they would adopt when playing games like 40k. They start wanting to play typical 40k archetypes, such as grey knights and farseers, whilst players are less likely to do this at 54mm, because such models are not available over the counter.

I completely agree. The majority of 40k available archetypes are not suited for INQ. Unless played by a host seasoned RPG'rs, most INQ28 games quickly become kill point missions featuring the mentality of,
"what would happen if a space marine went up against... (look in case) a tau fire warrior!".

Still, If you still really want to play in 28, but wish drop the 40k stigma, this is what I recommend.

1.) design your warband as you would if you were to play in 54mm. This means purge your mind of ALL existing 40k models you may want you use and even design your warband off a concept found in the 54mm range (lets use slick Devlan as our concept).

2.) Sift through all your bits and models to create "Devlen" in 40k style. Maybe a Tallarn Desert Raider torso converted to duel wield pistols. Don't just wiziwig what is already on the model and base a character off it.

3. Convert, paint, write up a background if you haven't done so.

4. This step is so small yet amazingly effective. Place the finished model, with base, and glue it onto a 40mm base. This step reminds other players and you that this model is meant for INQ and not something you pulled last minute from your Witch hunters army.

You can still use scaled movement, but I highly recommend the 4th step.

precinctomega
09-07-2009, 08:31
Place the finished model, with base, and glue it onto a 40mm base.

I like your thinking with this one, but don't think that would quite work. Deciding on combat reach would be really tricky. How about gluing the model to a penny? Smaller than a regular base, making the whole model very manoeuvrable, but distinctively different from a normal 25mm base.

R.

abhorsen950
09-07-2009, 16:45
I like the idea
as you can get so much more variety in models
but i beleive 54mm is alot better
and i was close to starting inq28
but its all about the 54mm

- ABH

Ynek
09-07-2009, 17:50
I think that the underlying agreement that we all appear to be dancing around is:

"unconverted 28mm models in inq28 = bad. Don't just use Tom, Dick and Harry from your 40k army."

Unconverted models do tend to make people, particularly people who are new to the Inquisitor game, think "40k." Heavily converted models do go some way to offset this, in much the same way that since necromunda models are so different from general 40k models, less people tend to think: "I wanna play a squad of space marines!"

kaled
09-07-2009, 18:32
I like the idea
as you can get so much more variety in modelsThere's quite a lot of variety at 54mm too... Here's a list I saved from the old 'Clave

Manufacturers of 54mm models
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat1290321&rootCatGameStyle=specialist-games
http://www.eolithminiatures.com/
http://www.pegasomodels.com/
http://www.jmd-miniatures.com/
http://www.andrea-miniatures.com/
http://www.pizarrominiaturas.com/
http://www.bronzeagemin.com/
http://www.reapermini.com/
http://www.draconia.es/
http://www.enigmaminiatures.com/
http://www.dark-age.com/
http://www.romeomodels.com/
http://www.telecable.es/personales/celada/
http://www.blackscorpionminiatures.com/
http://www.enigmaminiatures.com/
http://www.dark-age.com/
http://www.romeomodels.com/
http://darkswordminiatures.com/
http://www.frpgames.com/new/cart.php?m=product_list&c=1745
http://www.sacredblademiniatures.com/index2.html (some of the larger cyborgs etc would work in Inquisitor)
http://www.tinsbits.com/webshop/index.php/cPath/18/category/54-mm.html/XTCsid/398d416eec8500e34f853d2773a8c71c
http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/showproducts.cfm?FullCat=114
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/ (Monsters, daemons and other creatures would be perfect for Inquisitor)
http://www.smartmaxstore.com/ (1/35, so a touch small for Inquisitor)
http://transportmodels.co.uk/search_result.php?keywords=airfix+1%3A32+plastic+f igur - a cheap source of grunts
http://www.miniaturasbeneito.com/
http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/
Check out Historex below - there are loads more people who make 54mm models...

Suppliers for many of the above miniatures
http://www.historexagents.com/
http://www.elgrecominiatures.co.uk/
http://www.frontiermodels.co.uk/
http://www.arcaneminiatures.co.uk/
http://www.allsortsemporium.net/
http://www.coolminiornot.com/store/

Suppliers of GW plastic parts
http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/
http://www.battlewagonbits.co.uk/

Parts and Accessories
(NOTE: a lot of these are 1/35 so are a bit small for most Inquisitor characters)
http://www.milminwh.com/figure_accessories.htm
http://www.verlindenonline.com/store/index.html
http://www.hrprod.com/equipment.html

Modelling Supplies
http://www.heresyminiatures.com/ (also do a great range of creatures and monsters)
http://www.scalelink.co.uk/
http://www.emodels.co.uk/
http://www.transportmodels.co.uk/ (great for plasticard, plastic tube and strips)
http://www.historexagents.com/shop/hxproductdetail.php?ProductCode=FR54 (perfect for sculpting your own characters)

Trade Inquisitor parts
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadiansmugglers/

Commissar Molotov
09-07-2009, 19:04
I've recently started a INQ28 blog (http://inq28.blogspot.com) in an attempt to chronicle my adventures in INQ28, but also to help collate and display some of the truly exceptional examples of INQ28 in action. If people would like, feel free to email me and I'll feature your INQ28 work! Given the rise of "Inquisimunda" and various offshoots on forums such as DakkaDakka, INQ28 is suffering from somewhat of an identity crisis, and I wanted to showcase how great it can be.

In the past, I've noticed that INQ28 is somewhat looked down on in the INQ54 community, or regarded as a inherently inferior version of the Inquisitor game. I would like to try to champion the 28mm version of the game so that both variants stand alongside each other - after all, if people are playing using the Inquisitor rules set that's a good thing, however big the models are!

I have started writing an article (http://inq28.blogspot.com/2009/07/everything-you-have-been-told-is-lie.html) to try to champion INQ28 - I was going to post it on the Conclave, but given its unfortunate state at the moment, here it is. I don't consider it perfect, and if people have reasonable counter-arguments that I can counter-counter-argue, feel free to contribute either here or in the comments section of the blog entry itself (http://inq28.blogspot.com/2009/07/everything-you-have-been-told-is-lie.html). :)


Everything you have been told is a lie!
The purpose of this article is to promote INQ28 - something I think that is sorely needed. This may become somewhat lengthy, but I wanted to provide a cogent and comprehensive defense of the game - something that I think is required.

When Inquisitor was written, the rules themselves were not bound to a specific scale. Distances were written in 'yards' and it was suggested that a yard should equal an inch. This makes Inquisitor easy to scale up or down (you could theoretically have a life-sized game of Inquisitor!) - by halving the size of models you can simply could a 'yard' as half an inch. For many players already familiar with Games Workshop's other games, it's perhaps instinctual to stick with the same scaled figures.

I have noticed a certain degree of scorn heaped upon INQ28 players by the wider Inquisitor community. In Fanatic Online #87, Derek Gillespie's article 'Piercing the Shadows' put forth his viewpoint that Inquisitor should only be played with 54mm models. As he puts it, '[u]sing 40k models isn't on.' I don't wish to demonise, victimise or savage Derek here, but it provides me with an exemplar, and an opportunity to write somewhat of a rebuttal to his assertions.

I realise that with the removal of the Specialist Games website it may be difficult for some of you to get hold of 'Piercing the Shadows', but you should be able to download it from MarcoSkoll's Inquisitor repository - the link should be here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mj0m5n2nyqn).

Feelin' Good, Feelin' Right
Derek writes that the sumptuous, extra-detailed Inquisitor models are perfect for Inquisitor - that on some instinctual, inexpressible level they just feel 'right'. I can't deny that the models are beautiful - Eisenhorn particularly ranks among my favourite GW models ever. The 54mm models are beautiful, well-proportioned and nicely detailed, but Games Workshop has progressively cut down the range so drastically that nowadays gamers aren't even sure what components they'll receive when they make a mail order. New Inquisitor games are being told to trawl eBay, frequent yahoo grups and to try to scrounge for models. (GW models, that is - I realise there are other 54mm providers.) It's not really a desirable situation.

I would object to the assertion that 28mm models can't themselves be 'sumptuously detailed'. One need only look at the Solomon Lok (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/inqlok.htm) model from Forgeworld in order to see the exceptionally crisp sculpting and detailing present. In recent years, many fantastically-sculpted 40k and Fantasy models have been released. Also, from a converting point of view, many of these models are plastic, which give the 28mm modeller unparalleled flexibility and choice in the creation of their models.

When I chose to go with 28mm models for my Inquisitor games, it was not because I wanted to use my existing model collection (though some models have made it through) and it was not because of my existing collections of scenery - I just found it fun. It's been challenging to scour the model ranges to find suitable choices that will make characterful models. Or perhaps I should say 'suitable choices that will make models for my characters.' Once you play the game, and get involved thinking about characters, scale becomes somewhat irrelevant - the player gets sucked in regardless.

Negativity and the Power of 'No!'
In 'Piercing the Shadows' Derek also raises another criticism which is often levelled by INQ54 players at the INQ28 community - that of 'Power Creep'.


'If you're already fighting a desperate battle with your temptation to
avoid having an Ork Boy as your Inquisitor character, then think
how much harder the temptation will press upon you if you can
easily get a model of one! At least, at 54mm, you'd have to go
quite a long way to get a good looking Ork. At 28mm, it's easy –
there are hundreds of the things available! Of course, the
temptation to start including bigger things, like tanks, looms
large once again. Likewise, people start thinking that meeting
Eldar Pheonix Lords, or a C'Tan, is a “good idea”.'

The charge being levelled at INQ28 players is that they simply won't be able to resist throwing in the traditional 40k standbys - Ork Boyz, Necron Warriors, Eldar Exarchs - into some sort of meatgrinder against your Inquisitors. That bolters, power armour and other equipment common in the 'front-line of mud and gas and behemoth engines' that Dan Abnett wrote about will find themselves in the Inquisitor game.

It's as tricky to defend against this argument as it is silly to promulgate it - because I can't speak for all INQ28 players, but neither should all INQ28 players be tarred with the same brush. Do we all have that temptation to include an Ork boy? If so, isn't that temptation in INQ54 players, but only stymied by the lack of convertible models?

In INQ54, it's just as easy to have power armour, bolters and such. I think the key here is not that 40k models exacerbate the situation, but rather that Inquisitor as a game is really best suited for those that understand it as a narrative game where the objective is not to smear the other models into a red mist in the first turn. Committed wargamers and storytellers can put the time into converting their models to make them more acceptable.

The Power of 'No!' is important here. Inquisitor is different to 40k and Fantasy in one key aspect. There is no arguments about whether something is beardy, cheesy or the like. That's because of the iron-fisted GM, who can break whatever rules he likes, or even invent them on the spot. If an INQ28 (or an INQ54!) player is breaking the spirit of the game, it's the right - and perhaps even the duty - of the GM to clamp down on it.

A Shoestring - or a Noose?
I was on a 40k forum, talking about INQ28, when someone said that it was 'Inquisitor on a shoe-string'. I was disappointed by this attitude, really, because it assumes that INQ28 is automatically inferior to INQ54. I think what I really seek with this blog and with my efforts in the wider GW web community is to rehabilitate INQ28. Not to try to prove its dominance over INQ54, but to show it as a valuable and interesting source of ideas and inspiration, to ensure that people don't simply dismiss it out of hand.

Hopefully INQ28 and INQ54 will both ensure that the Inquisitor game does not decline into obscurity!

kaled
09-07-2009, 19:20
If people would like, feel free to email me and I'll feature your INQ28 work!Well, I've got my rather meagre Inq28 collection - mainly done to see if I could model Kaled at 28mm and as an excuse to re-paint some old Rogue Trader era miniatures. Feel free to use the pictures if they're of use to you.
http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/kaled100/Inq28/

I read your blog the other day and thought it a well written piece - I'll have another look and maybe post a couple of comments to get a discussion going.

Commissar Molotov
09-07-2009, 21:38
Thanks, Kaled! I've written up an article which should get posted up momentarily. I hope it's alright, and if it's not then feel free to contact me again. :)

Ynek
10-07-2009, 11:13
Whilst we're all showing off our Inq28 creatures, I thought I would dust off a few old pictures for those who haven't seen them... When I broke my wrist, one of my ongoing projects at the time was a 28mm version of one of my favourite 54mm characters, the Hive Maiden.

http://img106.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=brightnessincrease0003.jpg

That link should lead to a gallery of images, which show the original large-scale Maiden along with her little sister.

If anyone knows of a good way to photograph unpainted green stuff without the picture coming out all crummy, please let me know how it's done! XD

MarcoSkoll
10-07-2009, 14:10
If anyone knows of a good way to photograph unpainted green stuff without the picture coming out all crummy, please let me know how it's done!
Well, it depends on how good you think my attempts are. Example. (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/RagnarokEOTW/IMG_1272.jpg)

Firstly, find something to use as a backdrop (I used a towel), and lots of lights. Set all of this up so that it's brightly illuminated. Put the figure in question slightly in front of the backdrop, making sure the light's on it.

Now, here's the four tricks I use.
1) Find the macro mode (not the Marco mode), usually a button with a little flower. This will tell the camera it should be focusing at shorter distances.
2) Turn off the flash. You should have enough light you don't need it. (If you don't then turn it on, but it's preferred that you shouldn't)
3) Turn ON the 10 second timer - this is so you can set up the camera so you're not touching it when it goes off, and it's a much steadier platform.
4) Set the camera for 4x zoom or similar (or as much as you can if it's less than that). This means the camera has to be further away from the model, which helps eliminate depth of field problems. (i.e. parts of the model being in focus when other parts aren't).

Set up the camera so it's facing the model and the shot shows everything you want it to. Also make sure it's actually willing to focus on the model. A half press on the button will usually tell the camera to find focus - make sure this is right if you've got live view. If not, try turning off macro mode again.

Press button, step back, and don't touch any of it until the picture is taken.
Because it's all steady, focused and with a longer depth of field, you should get a better picture.

You can then take the picture you've got, and if you've got a decent image editor, you should be able to use the "Levels" control (or equivalent), which allows you to view and adjust the histogram for best contrast and brightness.

That's how I do it anyway. Works well for most model photography.

kaled
10-07-2009, 19:58
Marco - any progress on the models for Marco & Silva? It seems like it's been a while since we had an update.

MarcoSkoll
10-07-2009, 21:34
Marco - any progress on the models for Marco & Silva?
Not really I'm afraid. My university work became very dense, so while it was feasible to pick up a pencil in breaks in the schedule, there wasn't really the time I needed to do a stage of "Green Stuffing".
However, the year has now finished, so I do mean to get back to them. Silva will need the modelling knife applied here and there because I revised her appearance, but it shouldn't be too hard to get back to things.
I do mean to get them done and come to a Conclave meet.

On other news, although I'm going to wait until one of the others is done before I try and turn Frost into a miniature, her actual appearance is now pretty much sorted. Refer to current WIP artwork. (http://ragnarokeotw.deviantart.com/art/Frost-Sniper-WIP-3-128590984)
Actually, I might be really evil and bring Frost to a Conclave meet. :p

Ancelyn1331
11-07-2009, 10:12
@ Dave, a great little resource of suppliers.:)

@ MarcoSkoll, that is an excellent and concise guide to taking photos. Well done.:D

When the 'Clave is resurrected I'll take your advice and take new pictures of my (many) WiPs.

precinctomega
11-07-2009, 13:49
I like the idea
as you can get so much more variety in models
but i beleive 54mm is alot better
and i was close to starting inq28
but its all about the 54mm

Almost an Inquisitor haiku, there.

I roll seventy-three.
I needed forty or less.
Alas! I am toast.

Power armoured tank!
Force halberd and storm bolter!
Your informant flees...

R.

kaled
13-07-2009, 12:34
While I was at my parents this weekend I dug out a few more old miniatures who I might convert into a couple more Inq28 warbands - the current plan is to do 28mm versions of my Ordo Sicarius and Explorator warbands.

For the AdMech one, I've got 'Tech Priest and Staff' and 'Adeptus Mechanicus 3' from this (http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2034impforces.jpg) page who will be unconverted (although I might change the axe head on the armoured guy for a cog shaped one). I've then got the three Titan Crew from here (http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2035impforces.jpg) who might end up as a Moderatus (unconverted), a version of my Explorator (http://kaled100.atspace.com/kryzak.JPG) not wearing his spacesuit (main addition will be a servo backpack or mechadendrites), and a Skitarii-Provost (who will get a backpack and shotgun).

For the Sicarius warband I've got 'Assassin and Combi-weapon' from the first page, who was part of the inspiration for my Snake-Eyes (http://kaled100.atspace.com/operative.JPG) character and who might be converted to carry a needle rifle. Plus I found a Vindicare and Eversor assassin who will supply parts to build another operative and a version of Red Queen (http://kaled100.atspace.com/red_queen.JPG) (perhaps using the body of 'Psyker 3' on the second catalogue page). I've also got the 'Navigator' from the first page who I'd just give a bandana. Then I just need to work out how to do a 28mm version of this (http://kaled100.atspace.com/blackjack.JPG) guy which shouldn't be too hard.

As for when they might get done, who can say...

Commissar Molotov
13-07-2009, 15:48
I really like the classic assassin, though I can't say I'm overly enthralled with all the old Rogue Trader models! I really like the Astropath you used for 28mm Kaled's retinue though.

The "Blackjack" character can be replicated almost exactly using the new Catachan Command squad. It has the kneeling legs, a very similar torso, a head with the same sort of forage cap...green-stuffing sleeves wouldn't be too hard I suppose, and then you could end up with a very close replica.

Looking forward to seeing where you go with these!

kaled
13-07-2009, 17:39
I really like the classic assassin, though I can't say I'm overly enthralled with all the old Rogue Trader models! I really like the Astropath you used for 28mm Kaled's retinue though.To be honest, there is a certain amount of nostalgia behind me using these miniatures when I could quite easily get newer ones that are better sculpted and would fit the characters just as well. I need to have a trawl through BitzBox to buy a few things if I'm going to build these characters - I'll check out the Catachan section.

Commissar Molotov
16-07-2009, 11:34
I imagined nostalgia might be a fairly hefty contributory factor! For me, the sculpt quality of that period just varies so much. Some of them are nice, and capable of standing alongside contemporary miniatures, whilst others are horrible.

Still, I've been inspired by you to use one Rogue Trader model in my INQ28 games - it's an Ork boy, but it's nothing like contemporary Orks, so I'm going to be using it as another (minor) alien race.

Eternus
16-07-2009, 13:03
My desire to play at 28mm comes mainly from that fact that I have far more plot ideas than models to support them. If I want my warband to steal something, then escape from a hostile building populated by NPC thugs, I can't do this at 54mm without converting 4 or 5 thugs, but at 28mm, I can just use Necromunda models.

It's a way of getting around my desire to play certain scenarios being scuppered by a lack of suitable models. I'd prefere to play at 54mm, I just don't have access to the number or variety of models, and I already have around fifteen 54mm models, most of them heavly converted or even scratch built!

Puuka
17-07-2009, 18:50
I think that the underlying agreement that we all appear to be dancing around is:

"unconverted 28mm models in inq28 = bad. Don't just use Tom, Dick and Harry from your 40k army."

Unconverted models do tend to make people, particularly people who are new to the Inquisitor game, think "40k." Heavily converted models do go some way to offset this, in much the same way that since necromunda models are so different from general 40k models, less people tend to think: "I wanna play a squad of space marines!"

Depends on the piece you decide to pick. Sometimes, your guy will just look like an average Joe, but he may have an interesting back story. Your commander that seems to keep having bad rolls and losing battles, maybe, he's been reassigned to some backwoods planet to root out some bovine narcotics farmers (or so he's told, the big muckety mucks just want him off the front line because he sucks and they are tired of losing good units to his imcompitance). He finds some secret plot against the Imperium with the help of a few local mutants and misfits. The question is, does he report it and try to stop it, or does he find out why he was really sent there and help the plotters and try to get his revenge?

Tybalt Andrus
17-07-2009, 22:49
A nice little treatise there, Molotov. But I still stick to my original assertion... ;)

Commissar Molotov
18-07-2009, 10:14
Ah! We meet at last! If you want to counter-argue, please feel free to do so at the blog. Kaled's already chipped in. :)

kormas
01-08-2009, 12:25
precinctomega: sorry for taking so long to reply :D, sort of lost track of this forum :o.

but with narritive wargaming. the thing that always confused me the most was the 'narritive' part. personaly i thought that it could possably mean that there was a set naritive and players had to opperate within these boundries.

so just wondering if i have the idea: you assign the players missions to complete throughout the game. if you (as the gm) feel that the player needs something to spice up his/her mission you add a rule into the game.

is that about right?

Ynek
01-08-2009, 16:05
Depends on the piece you decide to pick. Sometimes, your guy will just look like an average Joe, but he may have an interesting back story. Your commander that seems to keep having bad rolls and losing battles, maybe, he's been reassigned to some backwoods planet to root out some bovine narcotics farmers (or so he's told, the big muckety mucks just want him off the front line because he sucks and they are tired of losing good units to his imcompitance). He finds some secret plot against the Imperium with the help of a few local mutants and misfits. The question is, does he report it and try to stop it, or does he find out why he was really sent there and help the plotters and try to get his revenge?

Looking like an average Joe does not mean that the model should be unconverted. If he has an interesting backstory, then the odds are phenomenally against him just looking like the 'off the sprue' imperial guardsman.

If he came from a wealthy family and was conscripted, then maybe he has an airloom laspistol that his father gave him as a parting gift, or even something as simple as a handkerchief that his sweetheart gave him so that he would forever remember her. These are fairly simple touches, but they would be converted and represented on the model so that the character reflects his storyline.

Or if he was a veteran of a war against the tyranids, then a few pieces of battle damage and a few scars would go a long way to individualising the model. In fact, according to the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer and the Imperial Munitorum Manual, Imperial wargear is passed from dead guardsman to new recruit until it is beyond repair. Therefore, unless your guardsman was one of the phenomenally lucky ones to be given a brand new suit of armour and a fresh-from-the-forge-world lasgun, then the odds are that he would have a bit of battle damage, unlike the 'off the sprue' models.

The point that I was trying to make is that an unconverted model rarely has any sense of character. The vast majority of 40k models are designed so that they could represent ANYONE, but they don't have enough of an identity to represent a particular SOMEONE.

A character's model should reflect his or her backstory. Invariably, this will mean that they will need converted to some degree or another. Converting models to fit with the backstory you have written is one of the most fun parts of the Inquisitor game, and if you go around using 'off the sprue' models, then you're just cheating yourself out of this.


Just to use one of your own examples - If your Imperial commander from your 40k army was disgraced for being inept and sent to do some other errand as you describe, then he would surely look a little different from his 40k counterpart. Maybe he hit the booze after his recent dishonour, maybe he's let his personal hygeine and disciplines slip. His shirt would be unironed, (he's a disgrace, anyway. What difference is a shirt going to make) he might carry a bottle of booze with him, he might have started chain smoking, he's probably dressed down a bit, since he's not trying to look smart and important in front of his men anymore, he's probably had a lot of his wargear re-claimed by the munitorum, to be given to a more worthy owner... All he would have left is that which he owns personally. All of this would make him look quite different to the stock model which GW will sell you.

MarcoSkoll
01-08-2009, 18:03
I'm going to assert that if you're not converting your models, 28mm or 54mm, you're not within the spirit of Inquisitor. Inquisitor is about depicting exciting and unique heroes, not people who are average in any way, shape or form.

If you've spent the time on writing a genuinely lavish and interesting background, then why waste all that by then just using a model that's straight out of your 40k army?

Gen.Steiner
02-08-2009, 11:04
28mm Inquisitor is something I've often thought about doing, especially as my collection of Necromunda models grows together with my Guard forces. It seems to me as though the main problem with Inq28 is not that it's difficult to do, or that it's expensive, or any of these things, but simply that there's a distinct lack of civilians! The main appeal for me of Inq28 is the idea of being able to represent a bustling city street, or a village market, or even a farm with Groxes, strange fruit bushes, hard working peasantry, slaves, etc etc. Yet that all involves just as much conversion as a 54mm project would, which defeats the point (for me) of Inq28 as a simpler, easier method of playing Inquisitor.

That said, I have seen some wondrous things done in 28mm, particularly over at The Underhive forum, which often play in my head, trying to tempt me to build a township or part of a Hive City... ;)

As for 54mm Inq, I have a few models, only one of which is finished, all of which are converted, and I've played two games. I love the game, love the models, don't have scenery that works well with them, and can't find any opponents. Ho hum!

kaled
02-08-2009, 11:09
As for 54mm Inq, I have a few models, only one of which is finished, all of which are converted, and I've played two games. I love the game, love the models, don't have scenery that works well with them, and can't find any opponents. Ho hum!Your profile says you live in Nottinghamshire, so opponents should be easy to find. Members of the Conclave organise events at WHW a few times a year which you're welcome to come along to, and if you ask around on the 'Clave I'm sure you'll find opponents if you want to organise a game yourself.

Gen.Steiner
02-08-2009, 11:30
Well, it's not quite that simple - I can't drive yet, and have a small baby plus I'm out of work, so my wargaming time's massively limited anyway.

Otherwise I'd be a regular sight at WHW... :(

On the plus side, I'm moving to London fairly soon so will be able to pop back to the Charing Cross Games Club or some other group and hopefully get some use out of Gideon Sterne.

precinctomega
02-08-2009, 17:03
The main appeal for me of Inq28 is the idea of being able to represent a bustling city street, or a village market, or even a farm with Groxes, strange fruit bushes, hard working peasantry, slaves, etc etc. Yet that all involves just as much conversion as a 54mm project would, which defeats the point (for me) of Inq28 as a simpler, easier method of playing Inquisitor.

The INQ rules really don't handle massed figures well, regardless of the scale used. In this situation, it's much easier on everyone to simply assume that the events on the tabletop take place a few seconds after the first shots are fired and the streets have been deserted, less one or two scene-setting NPCs.

R.

Gen.Steiner
02-08-2009, 21:38
ah, but simplified rules for the masses work wonders, surely? I mean, that's the point of the GM... isn't it?

Daredhnu
08-08-2009, 15:13
until the bullets start flying they'd be a form of cover/concealment, then when things go down they become moving cover, running around and mostly making a nuisance of themselves i'd give them a single move (run) action and call it a day then though, make them try to clear the board as soon as possible.

so you will probably have a hectic turn or 3 then the game continues as normal.

precinctomega
09-08-2009, 15:14
ah, but simplified rules for the masses work wonders, surely? I mean, that's the point of the GM... isn't it?

And I wrote the Grunts rules for the Architecture of Hate campaign for exactly that sort of situation. But even these stripped-down, single-roll rules are designed for perhaps half a dozen NPCs and no more than ten on the table. What I frequently see is the "Zombie Apocalypse" game, in which an inexperienced GM simply swamps the PCs with shambling hordes.

With a clever board set-up, a coherent objective and an experienced GM you can do this sort of game. But most Inq28 games are intro games with novice players and a novice GM and if all the characters have to do (or all they can think of to do) is blast away at the gribblies it makes for a very dull game.

R.

Ynek
09-08-2009, 17:30
Don't knock the zombie apocalypse until you've tried it, PO. I GMed a game not so long ago where we had around fifteen to twenty zombies on the table, and the game still ran at an acceptable pace. (Albeit with very simplified NPC rules.) Link: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210070

But I know what you mean. A game with too many models on the table can slow down to such a pace that the game becomes painfully slow, and this invariably ends up with both the players and the GM becoming suddenly rather bored.

Ancelyn1331
10-08-2009, 17:29
Brains... I don't see why zombies couldn't all act as one, since their only objective is the players. Let's face it the dynamic of zombies is not complicated.

precinctomega
12-08-2009, 10:15
I'm not saying it can't be done, or that it can't be great. But new players will get more out of a PvP game in terms of learning the rules and having an exciting, dynamic experience. Zombie Apocalypse games should come later in the sequence, perhaps as the conclusion to a lengthy campaign.

R.