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Ymir
08-10-2008, 15:50
Is the dwarfen Flame Cannon any good? I've never used it myself, nor played against it, but I really like it as a concept, and would maybe get one for my dwarfs someday.

It just seems like the Organ Gun are that much better, considering it's vastly superior range (and even then, it's a short range as war machines goes...)

On the other hand, forcing Panic Tests like the flame cannon does can really be a game-winner sometimes...I've had absolutely great moments with the Screaming Skull Catapult, for example...

So...thoughts, anyone? Is there some kind of consensus out there that I'm unaware of?

Malorian
08-10-2008, 16:58
I've used it twice and it's hit and miss.

When it hits a block it will kill more than an organ gun, but the organ gun is more reliable.

They are also for different things: Organ gun is better at killing units with negative modifiers to hit and puch armor a bit better, flame cannons are great against blocks, models with multiple wounds, and with regen being more common it's great at negating that. Add in the panic test and you can see why it is more.

Overall though I like the organguns better as I like to have more control over my warmachines.

Gokamok
08-10-2008, 18:28
Basically: What Malorian said:D

My good ol' 6th edition Dwarf army used to have 1 of each, which worked out really well. The Organ Gun is absolutely amazing for taking out skirmishers, fast cav and such, and when deployed near the end of your line in a refused flank setup, it can be very helpful in dictating enemy movement.

The Flame Cannon however is just utterly devastating against infantry blocks. You have to be quite unlucky with your rolls not to hit quite a few models, and on a good day it will burn huge holes in your opponents line.

Malagant
08-10-2008, 20:59
I've been fielding a Flame Cannon and,with one exception, every battle I wish I had that Organ Gun instead.

happy_doctor
09-10-2008, 05:38
I like the Flame Cannon a lot!

In my opinion it is more reliable than an Organ gun in that with the right guess, you are bound to hit a lot of models regardless of artillery dice rolls. (barring misfire)

Against infantry blocks it is hands down better than the organ gun, it has a greater effective range (12" guess plus 2-10" artillery dice plus 8.5" template equals 30.5 potential maximum range) and can deal with ogre-like creatures easily due to D3 wounds. Another aspect worth considering is its flaming ability; with the proliferation of regeneration saves in newer armies, you may find yourself in a situation where that 4+ save ruins the best organ gun shot. This won't happen with your trusty flame cannon, though!

Further more, its "cause panic" attribute helps a lot against skirmishers and units that might be after your warmachine in general (although with the abundance of immune to psychology troops nowadays this seems a bit redundant)

Finally, it has a great model and will add a bit diversity to your army!

Pendragon
09-10-2008, 07:12
While it is fun to burn your enemies to cinders, nothing beats the surprised look on an enemy general's face when his precious unit of knights disapperars in a hail of armour piercing spleens, livers and kidneys...

...or did i misunderstand something?

/Joel

Braad
09-10-2008, 09:11
Wood elves tree army anyone?
Trolls maybe?

Or do organ guns also have flaming attacks?

Atzcapotzalco
09-10-2008, 09:50
Personally, I like the flame cannon, and I'd like to just correct a misconception about the range-the flame cannon has a maximum guess of 12", plus 2-10" for the artillery dice, which seems worse than the organ gun's 24", but the template adds another 8" to its effective range, so practically you can rely on being able to hit anything the organ gun can reach, and have a chance of shooting further. Also, the size of the template makes it fairly reliable-on a good guess, most rolls on the artillery dice will still do some hits, and even a glancing hit causes a panic check.

General Squeek Squeek
09-10-2008, 13:43
it's a great weapon, but remeber alot of the newer armies now are ITP so one of its key components will be wasted on that. That said its fluffy, cool, and can be absolutely devastating.

Harwammer
09-10-2008, 13:56
have you considered an organ gun and gyrochopter? you can use the gyrochopter to slow down the enemy so the organ gun can shoot a little longer.

Skitnica
09-10-2008, 14:40
That same theory would apply to Flame Cannon and Gyrocopter. Overall, I prefer the flame cannon to the organ gun. Barring any catastrophic misfires I almost always cause more casualties with the flame cannon. I tend to aim it at big blocks of troops, and with the 8.5inch flame template, it's a bit hard to miss. I do think that the organ gun outperforms the flame cannon as a Cavalry killer however. The automatic hits and the high armor piercing makes for a deadly combo.

There is nothing like, on turn one a 12" guess and a 8" or 10" scatter causing a unit of swordmasters to fail a panic check.

blurred
09-10-2008, 14:48
Just like happy_doctor said, flame cannon is amazing now with all the regenerating units around. Most daemon armies in tournaments have at least one unit of plaguebearers with a herald in them and its a real pain to try to kill them; unless one has a S5 flame-spouting war machine. Yeah, purge the unclean! ;)

Dragon Prince of Caledor
09-10-2008, 15:30
AUTOMATIC PANIC TEST IF WOUNDED ONCE! STRENGTH FIVE! I have never used it but have played dwarfs and nothing is more satisfying than watching your enemy run before they have passed half way! It is also good against flammable targets; obviously. The range isnt short; it says max 12' you then add the artillery dice to your guess and then place the beginning of the flame template down. It will go a long way; the fluff and model is kinda cool too. But, on the contrary, rolling a ten with the organ gun on a unit of anything makes me giggle ;) I would give it a try though; if you arent sure if you want ot buy it proxy it for some games and see if you like it. Let us know, Im curious myself!

lcfr
09-10-2008, 15:42
In my experience Organ Guns are a tad more reliable, and cheaper to boot. The Organ Gun is a better "all-comers" weapon, I think, but I wouldn't rule out replacing it with a Flame Cannon now and then. The fact that it makes flaming attacks isn't what makes it worthwhile, though, since you can give any traditional warmachine this ability for 5pts.

If you know you're running up against a horde army, take the Flame Cannon; it's more likely to make its points back w/auto-panic and a S5 template.

blurred
09-10-2008, 15:47
The fact that it makes flaming attacks isn't what makes it worthwhile, though, since you can give any traditional warmachine this ability for 5pts.

Yes, but I don't rate regular cannons that high when it comes to dealing with infantry. Flame cannon has flaming attacks combined with the teardrop template. That's what makes it so strong against regenerating troops.

lcfr
09-10-2008, 15:52
Yes, but I don't rate regular cannons that high when it comes to dealing with infantry. Flame cannon has flaming attacks combined with the teardrop template. That's what makes it so strong against regenerating troops.

Are there any troops that can regenerate besides Plaguebearers w/a Herald (or infantry w/Festus in WoC, IIRC) ?

You're right, of course, but how often does the average Dwarf player face regenerating troops? BTs and Cannons w/Rune of Burning are significantly cheaper than FCs and better suited to tackle regenerating monsters, a much more common regenerating opponent.

blurred
09-10-2008, 15:58
Are there any troops that can regenerate besides Plaguebearers w/a Herald (or infantry w/Festus in WoC, IIRC) ?

Anything in the VC army with the Drakenhof banner.

You're right that there aren't that many of them, but they're almost impossible to get rid of without something flaming (and they are quite common in tournaments). Its just a matter of preference really: I see the flame cannon being much better at multi-tasking than a regular cannon or a bolt thrower (and dwarf cannons deal D3 wounds, something I've never understand).

lcfr
09-10-2008, 16:06
Its just a matter of preference really

Newfangled contraptions come up by beardlings 'spent too much time above ground *grumblegrumble*

Although I'm sure we could agree there's nothing like FCing and panicking horde army units to lift your spirits during a game :cool: