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skank
10-10-2008, 14:13
I had 2 ogres defeated by a hydra. No suprise there but i was told that i would autobreak due to being outnumbered by a fear causer (US6 of ogres to US7 of hydra and handlers). I assumed you only counted the monster itself but the rules seem to say otherwise.

BRB page 50 under the Fear rules:

"Units in close combat automatically fail their Break test if they are defeated by an enemy that they Fear and the combinded unit strength of the units on the losing side is lower than the combined unit strength of all Fear-causing enemy units on the winning side."

So it seems my tyrant is scared of elves now, right?

Also what does this mean for other mixed units such as salamanders?

Cheers

Gorbad Ironclaw
10-10-2008, 14:32
You still only count the actual US of mdels causing fear/terror.

skank
10-10-2008, 14:38
Cool, great.

Where can i see that written down? (a FAQ?)

apbevan
10-10-2008, 15:01
you can read it in the quote you provided.

"Units in close combat automatically fail their Break test if they are defeated by an enemy that they Fear and the combinded unit strength of the units on the losing side is lower than the combined unit strength of all Fear-causing enemy units on the winning side."

The key there being the combined unit strength of all fear causing enemies. Only the Hydra was causing fear on your ogres so only its unit strength is counted for the purpose of auto breaking.

skank
10-10-2008, 18:06
Yeah, thats how i see it but thats not how my group read it.
The importaint bit is 'Fear-causing enemy units ', not combined US of fear causing models.

They see this the same as a ridden monster, the riders US is added to the overall US, even if he does not cause terror/fear himself.

They use this paragraph to back them up.

Nighthawke
10-10-2008, 19:03
i can see how they would think that, but my reply would be due to their logic if you have a hero or lord that causes fear in say a unit of 20 or so, you do not autobreak as the only thing causeing fear is that one model,
basically in their logic if you put one model that causes fear in a none fear causing unit that unit now generates fear

EvC
10-10-2008, 19:44
Ah, the eternal conundrum, what do you do when you play against people who will play absolute RAW at the expense of all common sense and fairplay? I would just pick up one of their Handlers (If they're ok with you touching their models), hold it up and ask "You are seriously telling me this model causes terror?". If they still insist that it does, then get out your rules lawyer hat. Like insist that the "reminders" for Ogre rules like characters not being able to be targeted unless they're closer to enemy units are proper rules and must be followed. Fill the table with buildings and conga-line in and out of them.

Usually that helps people realise that acting like an ass when it comes to the rules isn't conducive to an enjoyable game.

SolarHammer
10-10-2008, 19:52
Yeah, thats how i see it but thats not how my group read it.
The importaint bit is 'Fear-causing enemy units ', not combined US of fear causing models.

They see this the same as a ridden monster, the riders US is added to the overall US, even if he does not cause terror/fear himself.

They use this paragraph to back them up.

Cool! So a unit of 20 Chaos Warriors (don't cause fear) joined by a hero on a Daemonic Steed (causes fear) would autobreak regular units up to size 21?

Oh wait, that's not cool, that' really, really stupid. :rolleyes:

Nighthawke
10-10-2008, 19:58
righto changed now, sorry bout the problem

SolarHammer
10-10-2008, 20:02
Wrong quote. Right reply. Edited for clarity.

I pity skank for his gaming group.

Nighthawke
10-10-2008, 20:06
ah right, sorry bout that sol ill change it now

EvC
11-10-2008, 00:50
Actually I think the problem can be solved. A unit with a Fear causing model in it does not become a fear-causing unit, it just remains a unit with a fear-causer in it; much like if you want to charge a unit with a fear-causer, you don't need the fear test if you're not contacting the fear-causer. Thus the Hydra and Handlers combined do NOT count as a "fear-causing enemy unit" at all, and you can either discount it entirely, or use the common sense compromise of only counting the US of the fear causer.

Failing that, tell them that they only dispel your Gut Magic on an 8+ :D

decker_cky
11-10-2008, 01:07
The problem is that the overall hydra entry has the terror rule, meaning that by RAW, the handlers literally do cause terror.

theunwantedbeing
11-10-2008, 01:20
You may want to read the section in the armybook, rather than just the bit in the besteriary.