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BigbyWolf
10-10-2008, 17:41
There's a magic banner that only NGs can take (Bad Moon on a Stick) which states that "All Night Goblins in this unit are stubborn." Surely I am right to think that if I had a BO Warboss in that unit he would'nt be stubborn, as it specifically says NGs? If this is the case which Ld score do I test against if modifiers drop his Ld to less than the NGs? Im pretty certain that the rule is "use highest Ld value"...but i'm not totally sure...

Loopstah
10-10-2008, 18:50
The BO would not be stubborn as he is not a Night Goblin.

The Night Goblins would either use their own stubborn leadership or the BO's non-stubborn leadership, whichever was the highest.

Gazak Blacktoof
10-10-2008, 18:57
You're correct only the NG's are stubborn.

Yes you use the highest leadership value after modifiers which will either be the modified leadership of the orc or the unmodified leadership of the gobbos.

If a N. gobbo BSB had the banner and was placed in a unit of orcs they'd be able to use his unmodified leadership thanks to the rules on page 78 and 79. I'd ignore the "effectively becoming stubborn" reference in parenthesis- the writer was clearly assuming that the character would have a higher leadership value- the fool!:p

neXus6
10-10-2008, 19:00
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the best you can do is stick the Bad Moon on a Stick in a unit with Skarsnik then you get a pretty shiney Ld 8 and stubborn.

Okay it isn't Ld9 but it's pretty impressive for goblins. :D

Hahaha, I'd not thought of it that way Gazak, background wise it would be a laugh, the goblin is going nuts waving his Bad Moon on a Stick and all the Orcs see he doesn't care they are getting a kicking and won't be shown up by a puny gobbo so get stuck in. :p

Lord Dan
11-10-2008, 02:31
Can a BO even take a NG-only banner?

Gazak Blacktoof
11-10-2008, 09:30
No he can't. But re-reading throught the posts I don't think anybody has suggested it.

BigbyWolf
11-10-2008, 14:03
In a unit with Skarsnik plus having another character with the Horn of Urgok would be quite good (provided the spell goes off...) would give Ld 9...thats pretty tasty...

Cheers for the replies, cleared it up for me :), it's a fairly good idea, but nowhere near a big unit of stubborn dwarves or greatswords led by Karl Franz (or Highborn led Eternal Guard for that matter...) but for NGs its not bad...if only they were better in combat!

Nighthawke
11-10-2008, 14:09
are you crazy lol
night gobbos are amazing in combat, well not at fighting but actually trying to hurt/get to them is a nightmare, you have fanatics and then netters, they can make all the difference in winning that combat, then give them spears and you have a unit that will pretty much never run away
although it would be a lot of points :p

BigbyWolf
12-10-2008, 20:21
Yeah- and if the BSB dies then they lose the stubborn ability...

Storak
12-10-2008, 20:39
the banner is a symbol, of what is wrong with the O&G army. utterly useless.

Lorcryst
12-10-2008, 21:02
I have to agree with Storak, that banner is one of the most badly written items in the O&G book ...

"All Night Goblins is this unit are stubborn" ... BUT Night Goblin units cannot take magic banners ...

So you must take a Night Goblin Hero, and make him a Battle Standard Bearer, to purchase that mighty banner ... and then every unit he joins will benefit from his wonderful (?) Stubborn Ld 6 ...

BUT ... if you put him in a big block of Night Gobboes with Skarsnik leading them, you DON'T have a stubborn Ld8 unit ... because Skarnisk doesn't have the banner himself, so no Stubborn rule for him, it's the BSB that has it ... in the end, you have a modifiable Ld of 8 (Skarsnik) OR a Stubborn Ld of 6 (NG BSB) ...

Could be useful, perhaps, in an army specifically designed around Skarsnik + BSB with Bad Moon on a Stick ... but in my humble opinion, the Rowdy Grott's Big Red Raggedy Banner is vastly superior ... Panic checks can spell the doom of a Night Goblin army (even with Skarsnik, Ld8 isn't so good afterall), re-rolling those can be crucial, and the two banners have the same point cost (too much, IMHO, but that's another rant entirely).

Gazak Blacktoof
12-10-2008, 21:23
No, placing the banner in a unit with skarsnik will make skarsnik stubborn at leadership 8. Skarsnik is a night goblin- all night goblins in the unit are stubborn.

Yes the item is largely useless.

Lordsaradain
13-10-2008, 07:13
Unless you have a themed force of 2000pts nightgoblins or something...

:p

Devil Tree
13-10-2008, 07:42
Even with the most favorable interpretation it still sucks. I donít think I have to point out that there is something seriously wrong with an army, when it takes a hero, a magic standard and a special character to make a single unit borderline competitive. And thatís if your opponent isnít being sympathetic, and doesnít simply paste your weedy hero. For the points you might as well start DE and get a couple of units of black guard.

BigbyWolf
13-10-2008, 12:34
the banner is a symbol, of what is wrong with the O&G army. utterly useless.

Lighten up a bit! O&G are by far and away my favourite army, and I've got a few. They're also the one that I've had the most success with


Lordsaradain- thats what I was thinking of, someway of giving otherwise relatively weak troops a bit more staying power.

Oh, and Devil Tree, DE instead of Greenskins, blasphemy! But each to their own I suppose ;-)

Anton
13-10-2008, 14:11
Unless you have a themed force of 2000pts nightgoblins or something...

:p

Still, useless. Any of the other banners are better, even the 25 point ones.

Lorcryst
13-10-2008, 16:34
Unless you have a themed force of 2000pts nightgoblins or something...


Still, useless. Any of the other banners are better, even the 25 point ones.

I have a 2000 points Night Goblins only themed force ... without Skarsnik, because I really hate all Special Characters (they break the rules, and Skarsnik in particular totally changes the way the army works).

And Anton is right, any of the other banners are better for the points spent, 50 points to make ONE unit with somewhat lousy leadership Stubborn ?
If it had an area of effect and a cost of 25 points, I might consider it, but until the 8th edition (or a much needed errata/rewrite of the current book), I'll continue to use the Rowdy Grott's Big Red Raggedy Banner ...

Gobbo Lord
13-10-2008, 17:00
Even more useless by the fact that by taking it the Night Goblin BSB forgoes all other Magic Items, making him extremly killable compared to the ammount of points tied up in him.

I wonder has anyone EVER played an army that has taken either of the 50 point Goblin only banners, Bad Moon on a Stick or the Spider Banner. Worse still has anyone ever used them themselves.

BigbyWolf
13-10-2008, 19:42
Never taken either banner personally, but I have seen the Spider Banner used in a large unit of Goblin Archers before, might have worked better if the range was better than 16"...only Greenskin banner I tend to use is the Spirit totem, and occaisionally Nogs Banner if i'm using Black Orcs.

Lord Dan
13-10-2008, 23:32
I've used the spider banner in some archer before, as well (who have an 18" range, BTW).

I've used the stubborn banner before a couple times, and each time it proved pretty useless.

The big red raggedy banner, on the other hand...

T10
14-10-2008, 10:49
I've used the spider banner in some archer before, as well (who have an 18" range, BTW).


Last time I checked thse short bows had a 16" range.

-T10

Gobbo Lord
14-10-2008, 11:07
Yup definently 16 inch range.

Lord Dan
14-10-2008, 15:44
Ouch. Well then I got ripped off 2 inches in the last game I played... :rolleyes:

Bob the Butcher
21-10-2008, 21:53
The Orcs & Gobbo army is one army I don't mind if my opponent uses special characters, as this army needs them more than any other.

Mireadur
22-10-2008, 11:58
Ouch. Well then I got ripped off 2 inches in the last game I played... :rolleyes:

You must not know rules very well then, since there are no tyoe of bow which shoots at 18''