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Axius
10-10-2008, 23:23
The title pretty much sums it up... I'm sure there's probably fluff out there to either dispute or back it up, but I'm still very new to this hobby. And I haven't really had a chance to read many of the books, or codices for information.

I was thinking about helping a friend of mine build up his space marines, and as he isn't a big fan or the Imperium, yet isn't tempted by Chaos...he and I were both wondering if it were plausible for marines to go renegade, without devoting themselves/falling to Chaos?

Kind of thinking along the lines of what might have happened with the 11th and 2nd chapters...

Overt_Spy
10-10-2008, 23:39
Yep, Marines can break away from Imperial edict to pursue their own goals.

mukelnas
10-10-2008, 23:48
If I remember correctly most chapters don't actualy consider themselves part of the imperium.

a long time ago (2nd ed I think) Huron Blackheart and the red corsairs wern't actualy chaos. They were renagade marines who kept their original chapter colors, and painted red X's over all the imperial icons. At least I think that's how it was I can't find my old codex.

And what about the fallen dark angels, I don't know anyone who plays DA, are they chaos.

Axius
10-10-2008, 23:54
Yep, Marines can break away from Imperial edict to pursue their own goals.

Good, good. His idea was to use a company from the Salamanders that broke off to pursue other interests, and have recently allied themselves with a small Eldar corsair fleet in staving off a Necron and Tyranid invasion. They were told to stay put by Vulkan and the Sallies, as the inquisition had requested their aid. But they weren't having any of it, and left anyhow. Thus becoming renegade.

Here'sa couple of paint scheme ideas; Green from the Sallies, but black to show the renegade/rebellion. Or a couple of variants if he used Templars.

Kyrolon
11-10-2008, 00:07
Well, there's pursuing their own interests, and there's renegade. I think all marine chapters probably partake in the first. Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Crimson Fists have all been portrayed in BL novels as doing thing other than what they were asked to do, or ignoring administratum requests as they see fit. I think most chapters consifer themselves to be serving the Emperor more than the High Lords.

There would be a slightly different connotation (in my mind at least) to a renegade chapter. A renegade chapter would have said "screw the Emperor we're goin freelance." I could see a chapter like this operating on the fringes of the Imperium (galactic north?) where they hire out as mercenaries, work for rogue traders and such. There were several art pieces like this back in the RT rules. The closest I can recall in fluff were the renegade marines on the Iron Warriors planet in the Ultramarine omnibus.

When we get down to the question of "what happens to these chapters," there are a couple of possibilities. If they become needed by the Imperium and openly disobey, or worse they fight AGAINST imperial forces they might come to the attention of the inquisition. I say might because it's a big galaxy, and it's probable that any of these rengades would be small chapters or individual marines/squads/companies etc. They could stay unknown for some time.

If the inquisition ever caught up with the deserters they would be in Biiiiiig trouble. If it were a whole chapter they'd be expunged from the records and put on the exterminate on sight lost.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

Dan

Malphax
11-10-2008, 01:16
If a chapter goes renegade, they would indubitably be considered servants of Chaos by the rest of the Imperium. What or why wouldn't really matter. Once they turn against the Imperium, they're branded as Chaos. During the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy, this is what happened to several of the Legions. They didn't start worshiping Chaos until AFTER they "turned traitor." There are also several Traitor Chapters that have nothing to do with Chaos.

So... really, you could use the SM or CSM rules for them. Just don't use chaplains, daemons, or possessed.

Usopreme
11-10-2008, 01:36
The two best examples are the soul drinkers and relictors. Both still follow the emperor but think the imperium is wrong for one reason or another. They both still have chaplains and kill xenos and traitors, they just don't hang out with grey knights to often.

Warforger
11-10-2008, 02:19
Well most chapters that do go renegade eventually go Chaos sooner or later as per the Chaos codex, but not all do.

I would post my chapter's story, but I fear it would be too long.

Axius
11-10-2008, 02:24
Has anyone actually looked at the shortened-version of the reason the company/chapter might be going rogue?

I'm not sure if this would fall under the rebel, outcast, traitor, or 'just pursuing other interests' category.

Warboss Antoni
11-10-2008, 02:33
Soul Drinkers is a good example. For one reason or another ( sorry, I never read the books ), they beileve that the imperium is wrong and they continue to serve the emporer, only not the imperium. I can imagine chapters would go rougue from being fed up with the imperium. Maybe reinforcements never arrived or they are scrutinized by the inquisition.

ReveredChaplainDrake
11-10-2008, 02:46
Two words: Black Templars. (I would also accept "Space Wolves".)

This is why the Chaos Marine codex failed. The book portrays all Chaos Marines as aspiring to Daemonhood (or Abaddon-hood, if you don't mind Costume Contest 40k) from the very instant that they turn away. Anything before that, such as pursuing one's own interests, is counseled away by the Chaplains. Thus, in order to be a Chaos Marine, you basically have to out-preach your Chaplain, and thus you begin worshipping Chaos.

Axius
11-10-2008, 03:04
How do Templars perform on a competitive basis? Or do they tend to be underpowered?


Edit: Would they be acceptable under any of the proposed paint-schemes?

SwordJon
11-10-2008, 03:10
Technically speaking, the Night Lords were renegade marines who later fell to chaos, but they were not always chaos marines.

Warforger
11-10-2008, 03:21
Well every legion at one point wasen't CSM (even Word Bearers). I mean the Emperor woulden't create an army to destroy the Imperuim

"Assitant: Umm Emperor what are these Daemonic marines doing in our chambers?

Emperor: I am making them so that they can doom humanity into a downward black hole to oblivion

Assitant:.... WHY?

Emperor:......"

Axius
11-10-2008, 03:34
Well every legion at one point wasen't CSM (even Word Bearers). I mean the Emperor woulden't create an army to destroy the Imperuim

"Assitant: Umm Emperor what are these Daemonic marines doing in our chambers?

Emperor: I am making them so that they can doom humanity into a downward black hole to oblivion

Assitant:.... WHY?

Emperor:......"

Makes me think of a bad RPG. lol

Imperialis_Dominatus
11-10-2008, 04:44
If I remember correctly most chapters don't actualy consider themselves part of the imperium.

True. I think the autonomy of Marines is something that people need to keep in mind when thinking about them.


And what about the fallen dark angels, I don't know anyone who plays DA, are they chaos.

According to canon, they all were or at least were duped by it during the fall of Caliban. Some are Chaotic, some aren't, however.


So... really, you could use the SM or CSM rules for them. Just don't use chaplains, daemons, or possessed.

I'd argue that in some cases, a renegade Chapter would still have Chaplains. For example, if they had turned on the Imperium in the Emperor's name (think about it, it makes sense), they would still have Chaplains. Alternatively, if they did fall to Chaos, or perhaps some other religion, the Chaplains might preach it.


Edit: Would they be acceptable under any of the proposed paint-schemes?

Sure would.


Well every legion at one point wasen't CSM (even Word Bearers). I mean the Emperor woulden't create an army to destroy the Imperuim

I think he means during the Heresy. Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Iron Warriors haven't always put their full stock in Chaos- in fact, not much at all by some interpretations. There are more Chaotics among them now, from what I can tell, but they've tried to keep independent of the Dark Gods.


Good, good. His idea was to use a company from the Salamanders that broke off to pursue other interests, and have recently allied themselves with a small Eldar corsair fleet in staving off a Necron and Tyranid invasion. They were told to stay put by Vulkan and the Sallies, as the inquisition had requested their aid. But they weren't having any of it, and left anyhow. Thus becoming renegade.

I think it might be more fitting if your friend were to use the Salamanders' humanitarian nature against them in their fall rather than have them ally with xenos. Space Marines generally hate xenos, and will only ally with them in extreme circumstances. And by Necron and Tyranid invasion, you mean a separate attack by each force? In which case the Sallies Company has basically become allies for the Eldar.

I don't like the alliance idea. It doesn't fit that well in established fluff. The Ultramarines might be fine with allying with filthy Tau, but as a whole the Space Marines and the Imperium all frown heavily on it, especially First Founding Chapters like the Salamanders.

Axius
11-10-2008, 04:58
Well, I hope you keep replying, because I'm happy for the advice. (as is he, sitting next to me on his laptop)

The way we have the story panned out is that a Tyranid hive fleet arrives to feast upon a (Tomb)world where a large Large Tau armada is making ready to assault an Exodite Maiden planet 'For the greater good'. The Eldar farseers have seen that the Tau will drive off the Tyranids, who will then divert their attention to the maiden world, just as the Tau bring their guns to bear against it...

Meanwhile, the space marines nearby are told to retake the planet for the imperium, however - they see that it is a lost cause as the Tau have a firm hold of the planet...and a very large fleet in orbit. As they prepare to give their lives for the emperor, the tyranid arrive, and the Eldar sneakily disrupt the engines of the lone Marine vessel, causing it to stall into the orbit of the planet, where it is quickly shot down by the Tau.

The marines crash land on the planet, a large percentage of them surviving the crash, and they are beset upon by the Eldar. Most of the marines are cut down, however, a farseer manages to get the Commander to call a cease-fire as the Tyranid begin to devour the planet.

The Eldar explain that they will help the marines rid the world of the Tau, and the marines begrudingly accept - knowing that it's the only way.

So in the midst of the Tau battling the Tyranid, Eldar and Space marine sweep into their flank, utterly decimating the Tau battleforce...however, in the process the Tau detonate several plasma reactors within the central city, which in turn awakens the Necrons burrowed beneath the surface of the planet... so now the Eldar and Marines face both the full force of a Necron Tombworld, and a (albeit slightly weakened due to the Tau) Tyranid invasion.

Once again they might begrudgingly accept one another's aid in order to survive.


Does that make more sense?

Mr_Rose
11-10-2008, 08:31
It's internally consistent of that's what you mean, but I'd have to question the farseer's skill if he didn't notice the fact that the Tau were occupying a frakking Tomb World, with all the risks that entails - the Eldar hate the Necrons almost as much as they hate Chaos after all.

But yeah, the logic of the story is fine as long as you assume that the Farseer who forecast all this is in fact an idiot. Which is not something I have a particular problem with since a lot of Eldar decision making in the fluff since the 13th Black Crusade has been increasingly moronic....

keatsmeister
11-10-2008, 09:16
But yeah, the logic of the story is fine as long as you assume that the Farseer who forecast all this is in fact an idiot. Which is not something I have a particular problem with since a lot of Eldar decision making in the fluff since the 13th Black Crusade has been increasingly moronic....

Age catches up to all of us eventually, especially Xenos and heretics ;):p

It is possible within that storyline setting that the Eldar did see it and chose not to act as inaction would have been in the interest of their own Greater Good (TM). The Tau are ignorant of the true nature of many of the galaxy's greater threats, though at least in their case it is through their inexperience, whilst humanity chooses to remain wilfully ignorant.

Havock
11-10-2008, 09:59
Well every legion at one point wasen't CSM (even Word Bearers). I mean the Emperor woulden't create an army to destroy the Imperuim

"Assitant: Umm Emperor what are these Daemonic marines doing in our chambers?

Emperor: I am making them so that they can doom humanity into a downward black hole to oblivion

Assitant:.... WHY?

Emperor:......"


"To solve the future unemployment problem of course, you nitwit: daemons posessing people hellbent on devouring humanity's soul requires a strong organization to counter that, a secret one, but a large one nonetheless. And nobody will expect them..."

=Angel=
11-10-2008, 10:19
IIRC space marines are answerable to the Inquisition and the Highlords- submitting geneseed for purity tests etc. Chapters that fail to do this or fail to explain WHY they just smacked up an imperial world would be branded renegade, regardless of their actual level of loyalty.

Rogue chapters are then a wildcard- something the Imperium can't predict- they just don't know what they are up to or why. Even if they're saving the galaxy, the Imperum wouldn't know about it.

Classic reasons to turn rogue/renegade:
Martial pride
Personal pride or ambition
Pride pride pride
Compassion (no we will not abandon these souls to exterminatus)
Heroism ( Marine Bob... i'm warning you, if you rush in and save them I'll brand you a traitor!)
More pride
Offended pride- Ego


In the novels- marines seem to be either angry or heroic. Thats their two emotions and they swing from one to the other realll fast. Work with that.

Iracundus
11-10-2008, 10:36
Rather than suddenly turning 180 and going from worshipping the Emperor and their Primarch to Chaos worshippers, it is probably far more likely and common that Chapters get branded as renegade when they start pursuing their autonomous interests at the expense of the rest of the Imperium. Like the Soul Drinkers, Chapters may come to believe they embody the Emperor's ideals better and break from the Imperium or alternatively perhaps believe they should be the ones reforming the Imperium and start attacking/conquering Imperial worlds and installations (in order to rule them for the people's own good of course). Good intentions pave the road to hell.

Hasan ibn Sabbah
11-10-2008, 11:35
Nope, definitely not all chapters go renegade to worship chaos. Let's face it, Marines are created as noble warriors of humaninty, and the last thing we can say about Imperium is that it's "noble". It's corrupted, unfair and smells bad, Inquisitors do what they want (witch can lead to abusing of autonomy of chapter). Some of chapters can come to thinking that Imperium abandoned ideals of Emperor and seek new way for themselves.

But the thing is that the Imperium get's sick every time some Marine chapter says "I don't want to play with you anymore" and want to exterminate it AND the safest place to hide for all Renegade Marines is Eye of Terror, and Chaos Gods are always happy for new friends joining they're party.

Maidel
11-10-2008, 11:49
Renegade chapter thats not fallen - Space Wolves without a doubt.4


As for other chapters, well i dont think there are any. With the exceptions noted (Soul drinkers etc) the only logical reason to 'defect' is to take power for yourself (or the chapter master).

This drive for power is what pushed them towards chaos, its a logical progression.

The only reasons a chapter would go 'renegade' without being driven towards chaos is for 'humanitarian' reasons. What I mean by that is that they think they are doing better for the imperium, than the imperium is itself.

Most of the first founding (and some second founding) chapters have gone this way at some point:

Space wolves - dont take orders. period.
Blood angels - any other chapter would have submitted themselves for 'cleansing' if they had the issues they have
Dark angels - the fallen take preferance over EVERYTHING
Black templars - Codex Astartes - whats that?
Ultramarines - yea, our 'empire' isnt for us, its for the imperium, honest...

Frankye
11-10-2008, 11:57
Some misunderstanding with the powers to be might force a chapter to flee, and maybe ask chaos help to survive. Expecially when you have space puppies blowing up your planet...

Maidel
11-10-2008, 12:00
Some misunderstanding with the powers to be might force a chapter to flee, and maybe ask chaos help to survive. Expecially when you have space puppies blowing up your planet...


Nah - you were dirty sorcery using chaos worshipers before we wiped the floor with you :D

Morganstern
11-10-2008, 12:11
Technically speaking, the Night Lords were renegade marines who later fell to chaos, but they were not always chaos marines.

The Night Lords still do not worship the chaos gods and hold the other trator legions in contempt for doing so. This background fluff has existed since the first Chaos codex.

sad_genius
11-10-2008, 21:15
According to RT era background marine chapters could be assigned to a Rogue Trader, those that were would have had an excuse to be operating out of Imperial jurisdiction, encounter alien cultures and ways of thinking etc ... no telling what they might get up to after that ;-)

There were also mentions of plain "renegades" in the RT book, some of whom were wearing power armour, so could have been marines; that being said, power armour wasn't the sole-preserve of marines back then as it is now.

qwertywraith
11-10-2008, 22:19
The Night Lords still do not worship the chaos gods and hold the other trator legions in contempt for doing so. This background fluff has existed since the first Chaos codex.

Well in Slaves to Darkness they are identified as a Khornate "chapter".

Much of the fluff in the chaos codex indicates that without devotion to the Emperor, the marine mind will eventually succumb to temptation and chaos. Discipline keeps chaos from breaking in.

Indigo
11-10-2008, 23:57
According to RT era background marine chapters could be assigned to a Rogue Trader, those that were would have had an excuse to be operating out of Imperial jurisdiction, encounter alien cultures and ways of thinking etc ... no telling what they might get up to after that ;-)

There were also mentions of plain "renegades" in the RT book, some of whom were wearing power armour, so could have been marines; that being said, power armour wasn't the sole-preserve of marines back then as it is now.
True, but RT was a deeper universe, with more shades of gray than the current 40K universe.

Maidel
12-10-2008, 00:02
that being said, power armour wasn't the sole-preserve of marines back then as it is now.

Oh, so I imagined the inquisitors in power armour.


Or the sisters of battle in power armour...

sad_genius
12-10-2008, 10:39
No, you didn't imagine them :rolleyes:

To be fair, I was more talking about the option to put Imperial Guard, Eldar, Orks and possibly a few others in power armour. I'm not throwing a hissy fit or anything, RT was a *very* different game, and I was mainly suggesting that in those days power armour wasn't so heavily associated with marines and other marine-like Imperial folk; those "renegades" in RT could have easily just been dudes in power armour rather than renegade marines.

Maidel
12-10-2008, 11:22
To be fair, I was more talking about the option to put Imperial Guard, Eldar, Orks and possibly a few others in power armour.

You still can, they just changed the names of them (Well not for the guard) to mega armour or aspect/ exarch armour.


I'm not throwing a hissy fit or anything, RT was a *very* different game, and I was mainly suggesting that in those days power armour wasn't so heavily associated with marines and other marine-like Imperial folk; those "renegades" in RT could have easily just been dudes in power armour rather than renegade marines.

Yea, I get what you mean - you are talking about the two random blokes whereing MARINE power armour sitting at a bar having a drink.

Its true. back then the power armour that is associated solely with space marines wasnt their sole preserve.

No offense was intended by me being smart ****. :D

WLBjork
12-10-2008, 19:01
Space wolves - dont take orders. period.

Not entirely true.

Depends on the Wolves. You give them an order they know is wrong, you're unlikely to ever get another order obeyed. Same way if you screw up, they'll stop listening to you. And woe betide you if you try and double-cross them!

However, a person who proves themselves friendly and reliable can give orders to the Wolves.

But they aren't renegade. Crazy, psycho-raving nutters, yes... (can't imagine any sane Legion taking on the forces of a segmentum after all!) - and the same goes for DA, BA and BT (that they aren't - quite - renegade).

Maidel
12-10-2008, 20:05
Not entirely true.

Depends on the Wolves.

Totally true - and i was being very short handed with it.

What i mean was that an EXTERNAL order (Eg from planetary commanders or high lord of terra or snotty ultramarines) is likely to be ignored.

IF your wolf lord gives you and an order YOU OBEY. I didnt mean to imply they were all khorne beserkers, which my post would have implied.


I susspect the best way to get the space wolf chapter to 'obey' an order would be to 'politely request' their 'esteemed presense'. Or tell them that the Dark Angels are there and making them look bad.

Or just throw a large bone in that direction :D

Disciple of Caliban
12-10-2008, 21:29
Na, as it says in the space wolves codex, the best way to get them to do something, is order them not to :)

Maidel
12-10-2008, 21:34
Na, as it says in the space wolves codex, the best way to get them to do something, is order them not to :)

hahaha


fair enough :)

Applesauceninja
13-10-2008, 03:48
look at the soul drinkers

Lord Pree J.
13-10-2008, 06:14
From what i've seen most renegade marines are chaos, but there are some that aren't quite fully chaos, or aren't chos at all. Take some of the Fallen for example. They are renegade, but not all of them are actually Chaos. Some have turned their back from Chaos and became just mercenaries (i believe).

GodofWarTx
13-10-2008, 07:41
I would say not all renegade marines go chaos,but its an inevitability that they will be sorely tempted by it. It even states so in the Chaos Space Marine codex. They might throw off their vows to the imperium as it's protectors, but once they do, they become hunted. The people they still might try to protect despise them and hunt them. Their supplies and spare equipment gets dried up.

They have few options -

Raid loyalist worlds, basically aiding chaos.
Turn to darker paths for their sorely needed supplies.

The homeworld of the marines at one time or another, will be assaulted and it will cause surely a lot of hatred for the imperium for being so narrow minded to see the virtue of their independance.

Also, they could be tempted or tricked and manipulated into serving the chaos legions or chapters who have already gone renegade, and surely themselves need a fresh supply of more geneseed and new warriors to take up their own fights.

I think the Souldrinkers showed just how deadly a tightrope that path can be.

Vaktathi
13-10-2008, 08:09
RT era fluff has all sorts of stuff about renegade (non chaos) marines, and Dead Sky Black Sun had a group of them on Medrengarde (they hadn't fallen to Chaos, but they also weren't exactly upstanding loyalists either)

Spektre
13-10-2008, 08:16
There is a Black Library book called [U]Dark Angels[U] by Gav Thorpe and there is a character named Astelan who goes rogue during the Horus Herasy and does not succumb to Chaos but fights to finish the Emperors dream, because if you don't know the Emperor didn't want to be worshipped and his plan was totally different then the current Imperial time. So you might want to do your theme of of that, a breakaway Chapter who fights for the Emperor and not the Imperial beraucracy

Sidorio
13-10-2008, 08:21
because if you don't know the Emperor didn't want to be worshipped and his plan was totally different then the current Imperial time.

of course, it all makes sense now. by unituing humanity and turning it into a giant empire he didn't want to be worshipped as a godly being. he just wanted to help people for no apparent reason.

Leman Russ
13-10-2008, 08:25
Heloooo See my pups making a litte apearence here :)

Despite what you all may think we don't really hate the Inquisition or the Imperium, just those in charge tbh. The young Logan has pleanty of friends in the Inquisition and Navitas, just a lot of enemies too.

If I had any say in it I'd say to keep an eye on that Papa Smurf down south, what with his own little empire and all....

Spektre
13-10-2008, 08:32
of course, it all makes sense now. by unituing humanity and turning it into a giant empire he didn't want to be worshipped as a godly being. he just wanted to help people for no apparent reason.


Dude no reason to be rude I'm just quoting from the Horus Herasy books that stated this. No need to be sarcastic and all I was only trying to help someone who was looking to get into the game

Sidorio
13-10-2008, 08:39
sorry, if i was rude or sarcastic, but really what did the emperor expect would happen. also i haven't read anything thats horus heresy and didn't realsie that you got it from there. you have my apology. and who says chaos can't say sorry.

Kriegschmidt
13-10-2008, 08:42
"To solve the future unemployment problem of course, you nitwit: daemons posessing people hellbent on devouring humanity's soul requires a strong organization to counter that, a secret one, but a large one nonetheless. And nobody will expect them..."

The Spanish Imperial Guard!

Uh hang on...

Unclejo
13-10-2008, 09:04
of course, it all makes sense now. by unituing humanity and turning it into a giant empire he didn't want to be worshipped as a godly being. he just wanted to help people for no apparent reason.

Alexander didnt want to be worshipped as a god. Napoleon didnt want to be worshipped as a god. Hitler didnt want to be worshipped as a god.

Forming an Empire does not equal seeking godhood. Ever heard of the British Empire? I'd elaborate more on my point, but I have to sacrifice a goat to my Lord & Master Prince Charles.

Sidorio
13-10-2008, 09:11
as far as my knowledge of world history goes... none of those people you mentioned Unclejo set up an enormous empire across the galaxies and united all the poples of the world. Nor did their empires last as long as that lazy guy who's dying in his golden throne.

anyway... i already apologised for my sarcasm.

Spektre
13-10-2008, 09:14
Thank you for the apology.

Also for the OP the Corsairs if you look in the book all appear to not be tainted by chaos so you could use the CSM codex for that as well if he didn't want to use the SM codex.

Unclejo
13-10-2008, 09:18
as far as my knowledge of world history goes... none of those people you mentioned Unclejo set up an enormous empire across the galaxies and united all the poples of the world. Nor did their empires last as long as that lazy guy who's dying in his golden throne.

anyway... i already apologised for my sarcasm.


But they set out to form/formed Empires. Is interplanetary travel now a key-feature in creating godhead?

The reason for wanting to control a lot of planets is to...control a lot of planets. More planets equals more taxes, more manpower, more resources.

Intergalactic Empires are hardly a new-concept in science fiction. Off the top of my head I can only think of one where forming a godhead was the aim of the Emperor in question, and that wasnt for the obvious reasons.

And, as correctly stated, the Emperor DID NOT WANT TO BE WORSHIPPED AS A GOD. Thats why the Wordbearers fell to Chaos, and possibly started the seed of the entire Heresy.

Sidorio
13-10-2008, 09:26
obviously you know far more on this than me so i shall leave the topic be, anyway i should be finishing an assignment on investing for commerce rather than arguing on warseer.

Dio´Ra
13-10-2008, 09:29
Badab War

Basicly where the story starts with Huron and the big misunderstanding for some chapters...which think they sided with the good guys....but in the end learned the hard way....

the chapters who sided with Huron and who got back to the Imperium during the conflict were: Mantis Warriors, The Executioner's and last The Lamenters...

But the Astral claws (Nowadays the Red corsairs) weren't given the emperors forgiveness...instead they were declared Excommunicate Traitoris and became one of the Renegade chapters.

Now I see Lexicanum as a nice site for fluff and heres the list of renegade chapters according to Lexicanum:
click me (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Renegade_chapters)

now one of my personal favourites are just the poor relictors...wish I knew why the Inquisitor was so interested in that black box...and how come the Grey Knights didn't sense anything fishy about this fishy Inquisitor who clearly has no good things on his mind with the black box....

Unclejo
13-10-2008, 09:32
obviously you know far more on this than me so i shall leave the topic be, anyway i should be finishing an assignment on investing for commerce rather than arguing on warseer.

Well I should be making a visa application on which my future life hinges. But talking about plastic models somehow seems more important :cheese:

Chimpeh
13-10-2008, 10:14
Good, good. His idea was to use a company from the Salamanders that broke off.... *Snip*

Searching Lexicanum for Renegade Chapters I came across the Dragon Warriors (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dragon_Warriors)

There isn't much official fluff about them other than that they are thought to be a Salamander successor chapter. I suppose the lack of fluff regarding why they turned renegade is good though, as it allows your friend to expand it up on it himself.

As the others have mentioned the old RT background mentioned numerous chapters becoming renegade for a plethora of reasons. More recent background however seems to describe every chapter that turns, turning to Chaos. Now whether that's because alot of the modern fluff is written from an Imperial view point and the Imperium automatically declares any 'traitors' as Chaos-followers or whether it's due to other reasons such as lack of resources etc. I believe is free to your own interpretation.

Personally, I rather like the idea of Renegade marines fighting autonomously either to further their own ends or because they don't agree with the current edicts of the HLoT.

Sidorio
13-10-2008, 12:04
Well I should be making a visa application on which my future life hinges. But talking about plastic models somehow seems more important :cheese:

ha, i think i'll need to do one of those in a few years if i want to work in the UK. anyway my thing was 20% of my School Certificate mark for commerce (it makes sense to Australians in NSW and the ACT).

anyway, to the real point of this forum. yes there are chapters that reject the imperium and the gods of chaos. if you can you should read the soul drinkers series. it is difficult for the chapters but it does happen.

Unclejo
13-10-2008, 12:12
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Steel_Cobras

Non-Chaos worshipping renegades.