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View Full Version : First hand insight on the new Tyranid Codex.



SHOGUN_YAMATO
26-04-2005, 08:59
I'm very diapointed.

As the rules are you are not allowed to give point costs I'll just refer to the 3ed dex.

Gaunts - slightly reduced in cost, Hormies no can have 5WS, 4S and leaping for the same points as 4WS 4S leaping in the 3ed dex. Termies are quite cool and WITHOUT NUMER lets you controle Table Quarters :D Don't remember about vicotry points.

Genestealers - 5+ basic sv upgadable to +4, basic cost not changed, can have scout ability which means 6" SCOUT + 6" Move + d6" Fleet (yes they have it now) + 6"Assault = 19 to 24 move in a turn, which gives a good chance of charging in the first turn (I'm buying a box of Stealers).

Warriors - preety much the same, more expansive ranged weapons.

Biovores - shoot as an altilery but 1 shot for 1 biovore, all spores use blast marker, all biorores must shoot at one target.

Tyrant Guard - no weapon options, Scything Talons + Rending Claws, the same stats, don't remember cost.

Hive Tyrant - 0-1 winged, can't take Extended Carapace, for normal Tyrant this morph costs the same as Warp Field in 3ed dex. And the Warp Field itself is even more expensive with +2/+6 inv sv. Ant Tyrant can have only one power + synaps. Other biomorphs are at least 2x more expensive than in the 3ed dex. The avarage is about 10 pts for a morph. Don't remember about wings.

Carnifex - you can take 6, 3 as Elites but under sucha limit that you can put only a nacked Carnie with 2xScything Talons and max 2 morps (the cheapest ones). 1 Carnifex per 1 Heavy Support. And, as in the case of the Hive Tyrant, the moprhs are very expencive.

Zantrope - 3 powers, stats the same and slightly cheaper.

Barber Strangler - 24" range, pinning and some AP.

On the whole - the guys at GW did it again. The only armies they seem to be caring about are SM and CSM. The only vaiable choice now is an army composed of Genestealers only or you will have fewer models on the table than before. I'm seriously thinking of selling my Tyranids and completing my SM army or selling all and starting a CSM. I'll wait till I'll be able to reat the codex in a more peaceful place than a tournament.

cyndre
26-04-2005, 19:13
Nooooooooooooooo!

No more lash whips on the guards! That a BAD new to me. I just had tested this unit, HT with ScTalons+Whip+warp blast and 2 guards. It just ruled a dreadnought in HtH without any loss of wound.

invivos
26-04-2005, 19:31
Argh biovores spore mines reduced to blast template? Was hoping the Tyrant guards had a least a 2+ save concerning who bully they look. Higher weapon costs for the weapons seems ok to me as all weapons were somehow improved from what I read in range,syncronized etc.
Genestealers look like they finally were improved to being usefull :)
Any news about gargoyles? Any plastic gargoyle assembly stuff? In the german WD from may were pics of the gargoyles in the new Tyr albino colour sceme,but sadly they were the old models :( And what is the buglike 3 eye carnifex head for, enhanced WS? Thanks for answering :)

anarchistica
26-04-2005, 19:38
Warrior ranged options are more expensive? Curious, but i hope it means they're also useful now.

And as a Nid player with 7 Warrior, 50-ish Gaunts and 28 Genestealers, i can't say i'm disappointed. ^^

Inquisitor Engel
26-04-2005, 19:41
If you're disappointed, you must be a cheese-monger extroirdinaire. THe Nid list in amazing. I'm holding it in my arms and it's without a doubt the most flexible list GW have done (Without using Doctrines or traits of course, and even then it's close).

I love it.

Atrix
26-04-2005, 19:41
I can live with most of the 'bad' changes, but its a real shame about biovores. It looks like they are losing a lot of what made them the most fun unit in a nid army. Well, maybe in the next edition they will make every unit a viable option.

'whooooooshh' goes the pendulum

(yeah, yeah, I know, wait for the codex, geez, you guys take all the fun out of unreasonable complaining)

SHOGUN_YAMATO
26-04-2005, 20:11
If you're disappointed, you must be a cheese-monger extroirdinaire. THe Nid list in amazing. I'm holding it in my arms and it's without a doubt the most flexible list GW have done (Without using Doctrines or traits of course, and even then it's close).

I love it.


To be honest, I only had a chance to look at the dex for about 5 min or so. This is why I only skimmed the things I was interesteed in.

For those of you you are interested in the weapons - yes most of them were upgrades as follows:

Spinefist - 12" Twin-Linked.
Fleshborrer - 12", Wound Re-roll.
Devourer - 18", Wound Re-roll.
Deathspitter - 24"
Venom Cannon - 36", penetration on open toped vehicles.
Barbd Strangler is mentioned above.

I have to see the dex with a calculator for half an hour to see what is worth buying for the army as for me buying a Carnifex is spending 1/10 of my salery :/ (It's like this in all countries East of Germany),

Wraith
26-04-2005, 22:36
Warriors - preety much the same, more expansive ranged weapons.

Except they're immune to instant kill, some weapons get the 'living ammo' rule...


Ant Tyrant can have only one power + synaps.

Except synapse & the Horror...


Deathspitter - 24"

Deathspitters don't count as having 'living ammo'?

zealousheretic
27-04-2005, 05:24
Against vast majority of what Deathspitters get fired at, Living Ammo would be overkill.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
27-04-2005, 08:17
Sorry for the mistakes :)

And yes, Deathspitter has no living ammo rule :)

boogle
27-04-2005, 08:58
you do realise this is all in the rumour round up don't you?

Wraith
27-04-2005, 09:41
Well I personally agree that while the deathspitter fires a living creature it's designed to explode into acidic good, it's just I'd heard that the Deathspiter did get 'living ammo' rule so I wanted to check for certain as it didn't make sense.

SHOGUN_YAMATO
27-04-2005, 09:52
Most of the things but not point costs and such and this is quite importent.

As for the Deathspitter, to be certain ask Inquisitor Engel :)

Brimstone
28-04-2005, 19:39
Some comments, by no means complete. Once we have a final one, I'll replace the out of date one in the roundup.

Special & Miscellaneous Rules

No 'shoot the big ones'. no special targeting rules at all beyond standard 4th edition ones I believe

All Tyranids use 'Move In Cover' universal rule. Move through cover special rule

Instinct Behaviour Table
Tyranids outside Synapse can chose to Lurk in cover (which grants them a bonus to cover saves) or roll Leadership to see if they can move normally. No check to Lurk. Fallback is now towards the nearest Synapse creature, not cover or board edge.lurking broods can still shoot, cannot claim table qtrís. If you fail the LD test to move then you fall back as normal

Psychic Powers
Catalyst
Psychic Scream
The Horror

Army List

Tyrant Guard
Tyrant Guard my only be taken by HTís without wings. And HTís only, no guarding other creatures
No weapon options, scything talons and rending claws, the same stats. Can change scytals for lash whips at zero cost

Genestealers
Biomorphs, & Bioweapons -- scything talons, extended carapace, acid maw, feeder tendrils, scuttlers, toxic miasma. and toxin sacs and implant attack

Gaunts (Ranged Weapons, Non-leaping)

'Without number' rule (possibly different name) correct name, gaunts under 8pts can but it, opponent scores VPís each time the unit is destroyed.


Hormagaunts (Scything Talons, Leaping)
Hormagaunts now can have 5WS, 4S and leaping for the same points as 4WS 4S leaping in the 3ed dex.[color=red] wrong, Hormagaunts remain the same stat line and cost as previous, upgrades cost extra


Raveners
Raveners are now classed as 'Beasts', gain deepstrike, and can have a optional thorax mounted ranged weapon in addition to their two standard melee weapons, now slightly cheaper but statline remains the same.must take two hth weapons 2xscytals or scytals & rending claws


Gargoyles
No information now slightly more expensive, no other changes IIRC.

Zoanthrope
The vanes on it's back can belch out a gas containing bacteria that attack nearby organisms. This gives the Zoanthrope some bite in an assault. Has toxic miasma biomorph as standard, still crap in hth but more difficult to hit.

Biovores
Mines explode as a Barrage using the large template if more than one. small template uses standard barrage rules from rulebook.
"He also gave me the impression that their movement isn't random anymore."spore mine movement same as 3rd edition codex.

Carnifex

Can take twin-linked deathspitters and devourers (count as one bio-weapon choice). 1 x TL deathspitters or 1 x TL devourer is a weapon choice

Gabekun
28-04-2005, 20:12
I don't have my template handy, nor the models to test it out on, but if the spore mines now use the small blast template, and you center the template over the mine.. doesn't that basically mean you'll only ever get partials on enemy models?

Wow, I feel really bad about buying a biovore now... seems like it might suck pretty badly..

Wraith
28-04-2005, 20:21
Nice one Brimstone I've updated the post. :)

You know you posted in the wrong thread right? ;)

So if there's more than one spore mine exploding the small blast templanet is still used?

Bruen
28-04-2005, 20:40
OK small blast template on spore mines makes them pointless unless they are incredibly cheap. You are going to get one or two partials maximum.

Brimstone
28-04-2005, 20:43
Nice one Brimstone I've updated the post. :)

You know you posted in the wrong thread right? ;)

Oops no I didn't I was just reading your thread and was wondering where mine was, I'm tired. :o


So if there's more than one spore mine exploding the small blast templanet is still used?

Spore mines are barrage weapons so you explode the first mine and then roll the scatter to see which direction the other templates are linked to the first (p31 of the rulebook).

M@L@L
28-04-2005, 20:45
If I do collect the nids when the new dex is released, it will be because of the majority of the models. The broodlord is a bit iffy, but you'll find that with most first versions of new niddy beasts. The raveners for, example, got tired after a while and I'm quite pleased with the giant ripper look the new ones will have.

I'm not fussed about the rules changes really. As long as they don't make them **** poor in a fight, it's all good. I'm glad the stealers will now be the super fast killing machines that we all envision them as and, judging from the sprues, the Carnifex looks set to be my favourite plastic kit (until they bring out a new race with something better that is:D).

The new Tyrant guard kinda reminds me of one of the beasties from pitch black except with it's wings clipped and a steroid addiction. The fact that the Zoanthrope is close enough to the old one without being crap is most impressive. It's almost like a mix of the 2nd and 3rd edition versions.

New Lictor, gorgeous. The hive Tyrant is pretty sweet as, even with the ridiculously large horn which is easily removed by those who hate it.

I think I've ranted about the new minis long enough. Bottom line, I'm liking what I've heard about the new dex. It allows you to have variety with which kinda army you choose without all the beardy custom jobs that might have been the 3rd editions downfall. Hmmm, now what type of army to go for? Lotsa little bugs, warrior army, Godzilla style...

Gabekun
28-04-2005, 20:49
This was really bugging me, so I had to go get some minis, my template, and a spore mine.

Unless you have some very lucky scatter, you WILL only get partials (I tested on a group of Space Marine Scouts, with 2" between each model). Though against other horde armies with lots of packed together models, you will probably get more.

With a lucky scatter against a 2" spread out squad, you may be able to get one whole, but no partials.

Yeah, this looks pretty bad for the Biovores...

Atrix
28-04-2005, 21:19
Things *look* bad indeed for biovores. Of course you can't really know untill 1) you play them and 2) know how many points they cost.

But consider these points, if a brood(?) of mines (from 3 biovores) misses their target, they will float around as a unit. Now if one hits, they all blow up. The one that hits will only get partials and most likely the other 2 mines will not hit anything ( assuming that they place markers over them and do not do the multi-barrage thing at that point, post initial launch)! Pretty big waste for the most likely situation. The chance of a random movement moving more than one mine into range to even touch anything else is slim, even if the mines are all clustered together (btb). Now, I am under the general opinion that GW designers are not ******, AND that my evaluation makes several (all?) assumptions. So, I will hold out judgment on my favorite nid unit until I get my claws on a codex. But, if any of my assumptions are true, woe be the humble biovore.

Brimstone
28-04-2005, 21:24
Well I've played two games with the new biovores using bio-acid, in my second game last night they pulverised two Land Raiders and almost killed another.

So I've learned a few things.

1. Biovores are great vehicle killers, I've got plenty of other things to kill troops.
2. Bio-Acid mines are lovely especially with AP3.
3. Barrage weapons also pin so they are great for holding troops in place until I pounce on them.

Atrix
28-04-2005, 21:32
Well, that is good to hear. I love biovores and don't want to stop using them at all. And, I can always use more anti-vehicle. ESPECIALLY againsts those @#!$ Vipers, although I hear VC's will pen open-topped vehicles now (woohoo!). Loooks like bio-acid will be the new poison mine, in terms of most used/useful.

Atrix
28-04-2005, 22:39
Hold on a click, Brim, Landraiders? AV14 Landraiders? With Bio-acid mines? Two of them? Did something change with the rules? Or are you just really, really lucky :)

Negafex
29-04-2005, 01:38
im going to have to add my two cents and say that i got a peek at the new dex today and im pretty sure i saw that the barbed stranglers stats were Sx-1, aslt1, causes pinning, and shoots 36". im pretty sure thats what i saw

clarkdobbs112
29-04-2005, 04:37
still a lousy gun against the vast majority of armies (chaos, necrons, beakies, DH, WH)
and not so great against orks (no pin if above 12), guard (w00t! I killed 8 guardsmen! 40 points!) etc...

gLOBS
29-04-2005, 04:50
Ok with with acid having 3+2d6 amor pen you can get a score 15 you can even pen a land raider or even a monolith. Nothing has changed except the small blast rules which only benefits getting more hits on a veh and gimps all the other types of mines.

Eversor
29-04-2005, 04:55
still a lousy gun against the vast majority of armies (chaos, necrons, beakies, DH, WH)
and not so great against orks (no pin if above 12), guard (w00t! I killed 8 guardsmen! 40 points!) etc...
Someone's cranky today ;) See the possibilities instead.
Besides, you get to fire plant seeds. What more can you want!

Negafex
29-04-2005, 13:33
i might have forgot to mention that it has a max strength of 8 but that is still enough to insta kill a lot of different units if it is on a carnifex like we all know it should be. besides you know how many eldar duardians or scarab swarms that gun can take out? more than its fare share

Lion El Jason
29-04-2005, 14:01
Ok with with acid having 3+2d6 amor pen you can get a score 15 you can even pen a land raider or even a monolith.

You'd only get 1D6 on a monolith...

Atrix
29-04-2005, 14:27
I am aware that a bio-acid mine can pen a Landraider, but only on box cars. To do it twice in one game, even including the slightly easier to get glance, seems rare. Each mine has a 1/12 chance of either glancing or penatrating a landraider. Even with 18 mines fired throughout a 6 turn game, Brim would have to have been pretty lucky to get enough mines to hit the landraider to make up for that poor chance at damage (not even taking damage rolls into consideration. Of course his opponent could have had two landraiders right next to each other, that would help. This is all moot if some of the rules changed. Like if you can now place mines on top of vehicles, that would help deminish the effects of scatter.

Eversor
29-04-2005, 16:43
Like if you can now place mines on top of vehicles, that would help deminish the effects of scatter.
Sorry if I go on a sidetrack... But my impression was that you've always been able to place the mines dead center on vehicles.

Zartan
29-04-2005, 17:07
I agree with Atrix. To say, "Biovores are great. I killed two Landraiders by rolling two double sixes in a row." isn't saying much about biovores. Show me a unit in this game that isn't great if you roll nothing but sixes.

Atrix
29-04-2005, 17:23
Sorry if I go on a sidetrack... But my impression was that you've always been able to place the mines dead center on vehicles.


The truth is that the 'do mines have to be placed "on the board" like the 3rd ed codex says' issue was never really addressed (as far as I know). And, even within the half-dozen stores I travel around to, people played it differently. So, for me it was a lot easier to play my mines on the board since it benefits my opponent, thus no rules disagreement. Just simpler that way. So, maybe, in the new codex, this issue has been laid to rest. Given Brim's apparent success with bio-acid mines, it's seems that we will be able to place mines on top of vehicles/models. All the better, helps make up for the can only get partials with a small blast template thing.

Gop
05-05-2005, 00:56
Mines were allowed to be placed on top of a vehicle, so a hit roll (2/6) would always result in an acid hitting the vehicle. I haven't seen anything to suggest that was changed...

Brimstone
05-05-2005, 01:31
The good thing about the new Biovores is that you are only rolling once for scatter so if you roll a hit you are getting three rather than a single mine on target.

Then you have the removal of the random bio-acid spray which while fun I admit, did get frustrating when it squirted away from anything

You are guaranteed one full penetration roll and with the barrage grouping possibly more (even if you are not and the centre hole is off taget it's still 2D6+2).

So you lose out on the ability to scatter mines at various targets due to brood grouping but the firepower you concentrate is much more effective.

The Beast
06-05-2005, 13:19
I thought I heard that the bio acid mine was getting a strength increase to strength 4. Was this just the wishes of a desperate vore user or is there some truth in it?

Atrix
06-05-2005, 17:41
The good thing about the new Biovores is that you are only rolling once for scatter so if you roll a hit you are getting three rather than a single mine on target.

It could be argued that rolling one scatter die for three mines has some downsides as well.

Negafex
06-05-2005, 18:02
it is truly sad that the biovores cant cause as much panic and chaos as they once did so looks like its up to the six fexs now,BTW with spore cysts do the mines fire like a biovore or float next to it, do they follow the fex arround, will we ever find a tenth planet, will my toast ever pop up, who will answer these questions and more?

charlie_c67
08-05-2005, 00:08
Can anyone tell me how this monsterous creature only army came about? I've looked at the dex and can't see how it's possible.

Rabid Bunny 666
08-05-2005, 00:30
i like the lower "I" as warriors were too hard and don't get me started on hive tyrants

the raveners are better now as well as 'stealers and lictors

and the fluff saying they were around in the 36th millenium

just smoothing over rough patches

Mantus
08-05-2005, 06:36
Biovores work but I am just not sure if the unit is worth 165 points. They are increadibly fragile and only have Ld5. They are not the best against vehicles. With only a 13% chance per mine to glance AV13. Would be quite effective against marines squads though. I can't imagine them killing the 11 marines to make their points back unless one gets some very lucky hits.



Can anyone tell me how this monsterous creature only army came about? I've looked at the dex and can't see how it's possible.

I am pretty sure people were just thinking about craming as many of the big boys into an army as possible. The two tyrants and the six fex will cost 1100 - 1300 points. That leaves very little for anything else.

Lostanddamned
08-05-2005, 10:21
Then two squads of 3 rippers as troops choices. Same method as the maximum assault cannon army.

Rabid Bunny 666
08-05-2005, 14:00
but remember. biovores have brood telepathy, so they do not need a unit to babysit them

Mantus
08-05-2005, 21:03
but remember. biovores have brood telepathy, so they do not need a unit to babysit them

Frankly I would rather they didn't. Just permenantly lurk. With their old Ld10 they would have passed most break and pinning tests.

Rabid Bunny 666
08-05-2005, 21:05
but there was still a chance that they would fail, now they are guaranteed to sit around

Mantus
08-05-2005, 23:05
but there was still a chance that they would fail, now they are guaranteed to sit around

If you lurk you stay put but can fire weapons.

bluedwaggin
08-05-2005, 23:26
I Have a Few comments after reading the new 'Dex. First I was thinking about the HT and his Bodyguard. Taking the bonesword and lashwhip. Then giving the guard 1 or 2 lash whips anything with any multi attacks will be reduced to 1 on average leaving on more with rending claws(or what ever they get) to tear them open, along with the others. Next a question what is the best weapon for nids to use to open Tanks and such

Negafex
08-05-2005, 23:34
if the barbed stangler can get pen hits then a fex with a new strangler is good . ven cannons are good but only can get glancing against non open topped vehicles. plus the strangler is good for anti troop cause it now from what i understand causes pinning

Mantus
09-05-2005, 01:13
The best weapon for blowing up tanks would be Warpblast.

The most usefull weapon would be the Venom Cannon on the fex followed by a Venom Cannon on the tyrant.

While a VC can only gance, it's the nids most reliable weapon. The rest only have one shot or low strenght or both. So while you may not be blowing up tanks with it, chances are good that you will keep them shaken so they can't do any damage.

Though for the price of a tooled up VC Carnifex you can get three Zoanathropes with WB.

A tyrant with guard is a bit of a point sink. A tyrant and three gaurd come up to 285+ points and are very tough and great in hand to hand. Unfotunately they only move 6 inchers per turn. Which means that most players will simply ignore the unit.

Some things to think about.

The Beast
09-05-2005, 16:09
Can anyone tell me how this monsterous creature only army came about? I've looked at the dex and can't see how it's possible.

They don't actually mean just MC's on the table. Just filling up the HS, Elite, and HQ choices with MC's for a total of eight. You will be forced to take some troops and FA as usual though. The idea came from the rumor section where it states that cheap carni's can be an elite choice.