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Jack of Blades
11-10-2008, 16:53
Here's the first one that came to mind:

Exalted Champion of Anything

Glaive of Putrifaction
Helm of Many Eyes
Acid Ichor

So anything he wounds is reduced to S2 and T2 for the rest of the game, with ASF. This means that any of those big, nasty things will be completely useless after he's wounded them once, including Lord-level fighter characters. Oh, and did I mention that he'll get further bonuses from obliterating said characters, thanks to the Favor Table? Then there's the Acid Ichor. Provided that they actually wound you with S2, they'll then take a S4 hit themselves, which will wound them on 2+. It comes at an affordable price of 175 Points +/- shield and mount.

This is a deceptively lethal combo, which may look overpriced and redundant at first, but the value of being able to reduce anything to S2 and T2 for the rest of the game cannot be exaggerated.

bork da basher
11-10-2008, 17:27
id prefer to just kill it outright. im not interesting in stat reductions i want it dead and out of the way ;) i wouldnt pay the points for it myself. its too circumstancial to be worth it. exalted champs or lords need maximum castualties to make them worth their big price tag, big attacks and big strength is whats needed.

helm of many eyes and a great weapon will do me. A4-5, S7, ASF hits puts a dent in most things.

i really feel chaos got a duff magic item selection and very few of the gifts are worth taking at the cost they are. other races have far far better magic weapons which to me is a bit wrong considering chaos is proberly the most combat orientated army out there with piles of magic weapons filled fulla demons n junk.

Jack of Blades
11-10-2008, 17:43
i really feel chaos got a duff magic item selection and very few of the gifts are worth taking at the cost they are. other races have far far better magic weapons which to me is a bit wrong considering chaos is proberly the most combat orientated army out there with piles of magic weapons filled fulla demons n junk.

Yep I agree. At least the magic items are adequate, the gifts are just outright lackluster and Daemon Princes are rather shafted once again, seeing as the gifts are like I just said, lackluster. The new lores are very nice, but then you'll have to sacrifice your Lord for a Sorcerer, or sacrifice your sanity and take a DP.

EndlessBug
11-10-2008, 18:24
well there's that gift that does d6 strength 4 no armour saves hits on a model in combat, whats that you can now kill that mage or elf lord before combat starts? My god that gift is enough on it's own!

sure they do seem to be lacking in some other areas, main problem is that all their items seem to be too powerful, i.e. too many points that they can't afford much. still they're great without gear anyway!

Personally I'd take the item which forces them to re-roll successful to hit rolls, bung my guy on a horse with barding, give him a shield and a nifty berserker sword or the no armour saves one, then give him the above mentioned gift and roll on ahead.

decker_cky
11-10-2008, 19:38
Glaive doesn't reduce the stats until the end of the combat phase, so your combo won't work as you intend.

SilentTempest
11-10-2008, 21:04
I've not looked at the book at all, but I'm going to go with bork's view. Reducing a character's stats is okay, but surely with your WoC characters, from what I've heard, it's not much harder to just kill the thing outright, claim the victory points, and eliminate the opponent's source of leadership (or more if you're fighitng one of the Undead armies).

veilwalker
11-10-2008, 21:23
The concern isn't the stuff that you can kill outright in 1 turn. The glaive is useful for those things that you can't kill in one turn, ala Dragons, Treemen, Greater Daemons, etc. Think of the mocking you can give to a BT when he is strutting around with S 2 and T 2.

bork da basher
11-10-2008, 21:27
besides what person in their right mind accepts challenges against exalted champions or lord of chaos with ANYTHING that doesnt have a good chance of beating it. half the armies available dont have anything able to go toe to toe with these combat monsters in the first place. if your in a position where your mage lord or whatever has been charged by a chaos lord of champion then your not playing very well and deserve to have him splattered to teach you how not to do things.

Havock
11-10-2008, 23:07
A DE hero/lord with pendant of khaeleth that is NOT on a monstrous mount will accept that challenge happily.

EndlessBug
12-10-2008, 10:42
The mace is a good idea against monsters, giants, dragons, manticores (especially! as they have no armour save), hydras, greater daemons, chariots.

As for the lords as I stated above the gift of chaos can sort that out no problem, assassins get slaughtered by that, getting rid of that threat.

The glaive is certainly decent, but you have to make sure that your lord can get into combat with the enemies monsters.

Havock
12-10-2008, 11:03
besides what person in their right mind accepts challenges against exalted champions or lord of chaos with ANYTHING that doesnt have a good chance of beating it. half the armies available dont have anything able to go toe to toe with these combat monsters in the first place. if your in a position where your mage lord or whatever has been charged by a chaos lord of champion then your not playing very well and deserve to have him splattered to teach you how not to do things.

The problem is, that unless the unit is say, whitle lions or anything else that stays standing (barring fear autobreak) is going to get horribly mauled by the additional combat res the hero will generate if he's whaling away at your rank & file troopers. The system sort of encourages you to accept; you don't need to win, you just have to hold tight until the flanking unit of wutsit can get into the chaos unit.

Because, looking at the pts cost and the incredible sluggishness of our army, we are the ones who are going to be outflanked most of the time :p

cold0
12-10-2008, 11:57
Go with warriors/knights/chosens champion. They are far less expensive, have better stats than many enemy heroes and with a few tricks they became really impressive.

The exalted is just a waste of points.

With Festus in the same unit a warrior/chosen champion has WS5/6 S4 T4 A3 I 5 AS 2+ (with the shield) Regeneration 5+ and Poisonuos attack. Then the chosen has a free (and positive) roll on the Eye of Good and a 25 points magic item. Plus the mark of Nurgle.

veilwalker
12-10-2008, 13:19
With Festus in the same unit a warrior/chosen champion has WS5/6 S4 T4 A3 I 5 AS 2+ (with the shield) Regeneration 5+ and Poisonuos attack. Then the chosen has a free (and positive) roll on the Eye of Good and a 25 points magic item. Plus the mark of Nurgle.

Then give them the frenzy banner and watch the carnage as the opposing player tries to keep everything away from that unit and forgets about everything but them.

cold0
12-10-2008, 14:02
Then give them the frenzy banner and watch the carnage as the opposing player tries to keep everything away from that unit and forgets about everything but them.

As old Metallica's song said "...Kill, it's such a friendly word" :evilgrin:

Steeleheart
12-10-2008, 14:27
My general has some sword that allows him to do automatically hitting S8 hits on anything in base to base contact (usually 3 models) if he forgoes his usuall 4 attacks at strength 5. i thought that was pretty cool.

Von Wibble
12-10-2008, 17:25
Until his unit champion is killed and he has to go into a challenge, inflicting all of 1 hit.

Steeleheart
12-10-2008, 19:24
using the weapon isnt madatory, its an option. and one hit that will almost certainly wound isbt so bad... what weapons would you recommend? the glaive of toughness 2?

Dexter099
12-10-2008, 19:49
I got a look at the book and lots of nice magic weapons were added, and some just got even cheaper. (chaos rnesword is now 50 points) All of the exisitng magic items got a tiny bit toned down, or got incredibly good. Such the sword of change. It is now +1 str, and instead of creating a chaos spawn, every enemy in base contact with the people you kill take a S6 hit.

Incredible high Elf killer, is combined with Helm of many eyes. The glaive we are tlaking about is one of the worst weapons anyways... Death's head is cheap and actually useful again, and some of the daemonic powers are incredible, such as immunity to all missiles but a cannon ball.

W0lf
12-10-2008, 20:31
i dont rate helm of many eyes.

M4 infantry with litte/no ranged support cant afford to fail a stupidity check in a 6 turn game, and trust me, they will.

cold0
13-10-2008, 08:55
Don't forget the value of a 25 points magic item for the Chosen. Something is very good. Here my preference list:

a) Bronze Armour of Zhakk (Immune killing blow/poison). Ban of all wanna-be assassins.
b) Collar of Khorne (Magic Resistence to the unit and small ward save)
c) Death's Head. (if charged it's a excellent stand a fire weapon. hit 2+ D6 T test, no armour savae!)
d) Book of Secrets (poor man wizard)

Kornath
13-10-2008, 10:22
Chaos Lord 210 points
-MoK
-Juggernaught
-Shield
-The Crimson armor of Dargan
-Necrotic Phylactery
-Chaos Runesword
-Diabolic Splendour

He is a little expensive, but he will have a +0 AS (If the crimson armor counts as chaos armor), be immune to nurgle/death spells aswell as poison, can't be killing blowed or take multiple wounds.

Chaos Lord
-Mark of Nurgle (you saw that coming)
-Shield
-Daemonic Mount
-Armor of Damnation
-Glaive of Putrifaction
-Acid Ichor

Cheaper (I think) will be a headache to kill, hopefully. If you inflict a wound the character will be S2 and T2 for the rest of the game. In a duel where no one dies and you wound him, he knows that chances of survival are pretty low. For every wound you take that character will take a S4 hit, a little revenge is always nice

Kornath

I posted this in some other thread... expensive, but worth it.

darrelltmcd
13-10-2008, 23:58
Lord
w/ stream of corruption, blood curdling roar, filth mace, golden eye of tzeneech, enchanted shield, book of secrets, mark of tzeneech, disc of tzeneech.



stream is once per game st 3 breath weapon AP -1

blood roar is 2d6 st1 no save

mace is poisoned attacks and causes terror for rest of game after first casualty

eye is 4+ ward aggainst missile attacks

book is 1 random spell from fire shadow or death (lore is players choice)

generates one extra power dice and no dispel dice. when miscast 1d6+1 not 2d6

disc is flying with flaming close combat. and not monster mount.

all for 380 points

Leggy
14-10-2008, 17:11
Chaos Lord
Mark of Tzeentch
Father of Blades
Armour of Damnation
Talisman of protection
shield
330 points

The Father of blades causes any rolls of 1 against the bearer to be inflicted on the attacker. The armour of damnation forces any successful hits to be rerolled. Attackers will end up doing as much, if not more damage to themselves as they will the chaos lord. Very befitting a tzeenchian character. The last points are spent on a basic talisman of protection, although its effectiveness is doubled by the mark of tzeentch.

as for the helm of many eyes, I consider it far too risky to use on anything less than a Chaos lord (or within his area of effect). Ld8 is just too low to risk. You end up failing a quarter of the time

scarvet
15-10-2008, 00:55
How about Tzeech wizard with collar of Khorne? 5+ward, Magic Resistance 2, +1 to cast. Don't forget a common magic weapon for him since he got 2 S4 attacks

cold0
17-10-2008, 14:49
I tried this one and works nicely, unless you find an enemy with flaming attack.

Chaos Lord 210 pts
Mok 15 pts
Jugger 50 pts
Crimson Armour of Dargan 40 pts
Crown of Everlasting Conquest 50 pts
Diabolic Splendor 35 pts
Favour of Gods 5 pts
halberd 8 pts

Cause Fear (-1 modifier), Immune Killing Blow/Multiple Wounds, Regeneration 4+, AS 0+, MR 1, WS 8 A 6 S 6 + WS 5 A 2. Modifier of 1 the Eye of Gods result.

Not bad, what do you think?

kramplarv
17-10-2008, 17:05
the diabolic splendour is to no use, it is not worth 35 pts for -1 on a fear check. on a dragonrider other hand ;);) :) exchange the halberd for a flail and see your Ws8,6A, S7 dude rock the house and the party!

Malorian
17-10-2008, 17:48
I'm glad to see there are so many different setups and not just one ulta build :)

Kalec
18-10-2008, 06:23
Armor of damnation is amazing, but a chaos lord should be taking a more destructive weapon then the Father of Blades. A runesword or a flail or halberd would serve him better, in my opinion. He isn't going to leave a whole lot of enemies alive to attack, after all.

It is, however, an excellent weapon for fending off KB enemies like war dancers, witch elves, and assassins while keeping the amazing armor of damnation.

For lords: a daemon prince with mark of tzeentch, splendour, and word of pain. Rather cheap for a flying terror bomb that makes enemies test at -1 ld, is stubborn in combat, sports an impressive 4+ ward save, and is safe from most killing blows. Not the most competitive choice, but getting to use my 40K daemon prince in my fantasy army is worth something as well.

fubukii
18-10-2008, 08:29
Chaos Lord
Mark of khorne
Axe of khorne
Favor of the gods
crown of everlasting conquest
Juggernaut
shield
Word of agony
6 str 6 attacks with killing blow, +/- 1 to any roll on eye of the gods, 4+ regen, 0+ save, 3 str 5 attacks from mount and MR

athamas
18-10-2008, 10:42
Exalted hero of Khorne
Juggernaught
Shield

180 pts of pure hurt.. simple and effective IMO, im highly tempted to take an army with just 4 of these guys as heros... 8 attacks at S5. 0+save..

Von Wibble
18-10-2008, 16:26
using the weapon isnt madatory, its an option. and one hit that will almost certainly wound isbt so bad... what weapons would you recommend? the glaive of toughness 2?

Inflicting 1 wound in a challenge is terrible. It means static CR counts more rather than your expensive models killing power. I don't recommend the glaive either (though if you nkow you are facing monster heavy armies that changes). I think 5 attacks at S5 is already good. A simple +1 to hit means you are 2s 2s against a lot of opponents. Throw in the armour busting scream so that the obvious weakness (the lowly -2 to saves) is covered, and concentrate on defense or saving points.

athamas - I agree with this approach. Just make 1 of the shields the enchanted shield for the -1+ save if you are feeling nasty.

Ozorik
18-10-2008, 16:34
How about Tzeech wizard with collar of Khorne?


Oooooh I dont know, fluff?

athamas
18-10-2008, 20:50
something about being enslaved...

anyway, its 10pts extra for MR2... fairly good going IMO..

Shamfrit
18-10-2008, 22:40
Chaos Sorceror Lord
Mark of Tzeentch (Lvl.4)
Collar of Khorne
The Black Tongue
Enchanted Shield
Conjoined Homonculus
(Appropriate mount if needed, Barded Steed etc.)

400 odd Points might seem like alot, but you're getting a fairly competant fighter, with a 1+ save in combat, a 5+ ward, Lvl 4, +1 to all casting rolls who can boost by D3 at the risk of stupidity.

It's what I've run for 5 test games, I'll try Daemon Princes next :D

athamas
18-10-2008, 23:18
The Black Tongue is a great item.. but the downside is nasty.. i would prefer to have it on a foot slogging rank and file hero who is there to cause a few extra wounds, but is not my army general, that extra lost wound could cost you a lot of victory points [you take 1 wound you would be under half strength for Vp and only have 2wounds left when it comes to dieing!]


however the infernal puppet really takes my attention, you are garanteed to be able to adjust it by one.. that can stop you from rolling double 1 and dieing, as well as make sure you get the most favorable result to yourself...

i really want to see The Black Tongue + Infernal puppet used in combination vs single die casting VC, it will be horific.. there is a very real chance to completly screw over a vampire on turn 1! [looking for results of 2, 10 or 11 really...]

Mr_Rose
19-10-2008, 00:06
Everyone is going on about the Glaive of Putrefaction and character killing, but what about monsters?
Chaos Lord,
MoK/Jugger,
Favour of the Gods,
Necrotic Phylactery,
Chaos Runeshield,
Glaive of Putrefaction.
Point him at the nearest Large Target and watch him go (the shield/phylactery are there to frustrate anyone riding said beast). Then watch him get better when he rolls on the EoG table.

Only really suited to larger games (300pts+) where you have a "spare" lord slot. Definitely not your General.

Shamfrit
19-10-2008, 13:54
Good analysis Athamas, it is a shame there is not a healing weapon available as that would make it even nastier.

I used it yesterday only to have the opponent roll something utterly useless, I used it too early. However, dropping it on a vampire general, great Daemon or a Dragon Mage is something that can win the game for certain. Infernal Puppet is probably the closest item in the book to being 'in every army,' it's magic defence implications arn't direct, but that one miscast that DOES happen can go very, very wrong indeed.

That, and someone rolled a 4 yesterday on the miscast chart, but I only rolled a 1 on the D3 roll! SO close to killing the general!

athamas
19-10-2008, 14:50
i can see that pair making there way into almost every competative army...

the ability to force a miscast on those listed then adjust the result can be game breaking...

it gives then a 1 in 12 change of dieing minimum.. possibly much much better... [just need to get that into my army now... ]

cold0
19-10-2008, 15:11
Good analysis Shamfrit & athamas,

cleary Black Tongue + Infernal puppet is probably the only "must have" combo of WoC. There is no escape against, only luck, but can win the game. Expecially considering the poor magical defence of the WoC list, unless you play with a pair of Juggers and a Collar of Khorne.

Shamfrit
19-10-2008, 15:32
I have been weighing up the potential differences between the Mark of Tzeentch and synergy with the Collar and the Golden Eye...

Which do you think is better?

3+ ward against ALL missiles?

Or a 5+ ward against everythign with MR2?

I'm going withthe Collar.

logan054
19-10-2008, 15:44
exalted champion
MoN
Palanquin
blasphemous amulet
bronze armour of zhrakk

place him in a unit

Chaos warriors
MoN
fullcommand
festering shroud

exalted champion
MoN
glaive of putrfication

nurgle wizard

caste curse of the leper on a unit you have engaged, then challenge the enemy hero/lord, now you dont want to kill them, just inflict a wound, after you this the hero is S+T 1, if the spell isnt dispelled by the end of you enemies next turn the hero then has S+T 0 and the unit dies.

wizard
infernal puppet
black tongue (these could go on separate models also the combo was pointed out to me)

daemon prince
MoS
lvl4 wizard
Diabolic splendor
conjoined homunculus

Kalec
19-10-2008, 16:28
I have been weighing up the potential differences between the Mark of Tzeentch and synergy with the Collar and the Golden Eye...

Which do you think is better?

3+ ward against ALL missiles?

Or a 5+ ward against everythign with MR2?

I'm going withthe Collar.

Depends on the character. Pretty much everyone except a disc-riding sorcerer would get more from the collar, but a sorcerer on a disc really wants the golden eye.

Also: chosen champ with book of secrets: yay or nay? Only problem I see is that we have no idea how many pd he can use for a single spell.

Mr_Rose
19-10-2008, 16:45
Depends on the character. Pretty much everyone except a disc-riding sorcerer would get more from the collar, but a sorcerer on a disc really wants the golden eye.

Also: chosen champ with book of secrets: yay or nay? Only problem I see is that we have no idea how many pd he can use for a single spell.
He can use exactly one PD since that's how many he gets and he's not a wizard, or at least that's how I read the following:

The dice in the pool do not belong to any specific Wizard and can be tapped into and used by any of the Wizards in the player's army.

Havock
20-10-2008, 05:14
Good analysis Athamas, it is a shame there is not a healing weapon available as that would make it even nastier.

I used it yesterday only to have the opponent roll something utterly useless, I used it too early. However, dropping it on a vampire general, great Daemon or a Dragon Mage is something that can win the game for certain. Infernal Puppet is probably the closest item in the book to being 'in every army,' it's magic defence implications arn't direct, but that one miscast that DOES happen can go very, very wrong indeed.

That, and someone rolled a 4 yesterday on the miscast chart, but I only rolled a 1 on the D3 roll! SO close to killing the general!

Not just that, but it can also 'shunt' your mages to the safe 'seven' as well. Great thing to have. Even more fun if you have something like 'infernal gateway' ready and manage to get the miscast roll to 6. Watch your opponent sweat.

Kalec
20-10-2008, 06:16
He can use exactly one PD since that's how many he gets and he's not a wizard, or at least that's how I read the following:

According to that, he can't use any pd, because he is not a wizard as you said, and the item itself does not clarify this issue.

Avian
20-10-2008, 08:00
Well, either the item makes him a Wizard (presumably counting as level 1), or it doesn't, in which case he can't use his extra spell because spellcasting is limited to wizards. I hope it get clarified reasonably soon, but in any case, I don't think a Chosen mini-Sorcerer is really worth it. He's something like 65 pts for a guy that generates only 1 PD and 0 DD, has only 1 wound and can't get items. And you need a fairly expensive unit of Chosen to go with him. I'd rather give him the Death's Head or the Collar of Khorne, possibly the Helm of Many Eyes if I intend to have a Ld 9-10 guy nearby.

Morph
20-10-2008, 08:07
Was planning on a Lord in an all-nurgle army, and the Chaos Runesword caught my eye. The +1 Ws means Ws 9, so with the MoN elite Ws5 infantry that would be hitting you on 4s are now hitting on 5s. And as an added bonus, Bloodthirsters are hitting you on 4s instead of 3s.

And the +1 S and A are handy.

Th3 Maels7rom
20-10-2008, 18:35
Chaos Lord
Halberd
Shield
Mark of Tzeentch
Armor of Morrslieb
Talisman of Protection
Crown of Everlasting Conquest
Disc of Tzeentch


2+ ward save, 4+ regeneration, 2+ armor save...

"the lord of 3 saves"

Mr_Rose
20-10-2008, 19:19
You wanna tell me how you get a 2+ ward outta that lot? The best you're going to get is a 3+ vs non-magic attacks and a 5+ vs everything else. Remember, wards don't combine like armour...

Shamfrit
20-10-2008, 21:35
Collar of Khorne, Chaos Daemonsword, Mark of Tzeentch, Disk of Tzeentch, Shield.

One badass crazy war machine hunter!

Kalec
21-10-2008, 00:40
I think an exalted of tzeentch with the collar, disc, mark, a flail, and a shield would be sufficient.

itcamefromthedeep
21-10-2008, 01:01
Lord with the Runsword, Mark of Nurgle and the Armor of Damnation. 5 points to spare for Favored.

No ward save there, but anything WS 5 and below hits you on 5s, rerolling hits. Remember that Runeswords don't leave you without hitting power either.

Another vote for the Sorcerer Lord with Black Tongue and Infernal puppet. Don't forget that one Sorcerer Lord can take both.

Sorcerer Lord with Diabolic Splendour joins a Hellcannon to give the cannon his LD penalty. Splendour is added to any unit he joins. No so great, but kinda cool.

Socerer Cabal, all in one unit with the Skull of Katam and a Sorcerer Lord with Splendour, so all your Sorcerers benefit from Spelndour. One of them takes the Death's Head, for more Panic tests. Another takes a mount with fear, to add the penalty to tests for charging your cabal.

Sorcerer on foot with Bloodskull pendant, making the wiz a competent combat character. Let your Champion declare the challenge in that combat.

Diabolic Spendour on a Demon Prince spellcaster. Add a Bloodcurdling Roar and/or Stream of Corruption in there for fun. Take a BSB with the Doom Totem to reduce Leadership further.

Demon Prince with Fury of the Blood God, because they can't take magic items anyway.

Dexter099
21-10-2008, 04:25
If you REALLY don't want your chaos lord to die at all.

Chaos Lord: Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos armor that gives 4+ ward save, barded steed, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, shield.

Save: 1+ armor, 3+ invul, 4+ regen.

However, I prefer to swap out the crown for the chaos runesword.

For a rank and file killer, go:

Chaos Lord: Mark of Tzeentch, Sword of Change, amulet of protection, barded chaos steed, shield.

Will own units.

W0lf
21-10-2008, 10:56
If you REALLY don't want your chaos lord to die at all.

What the choas lord that has a 6+ ward vs killing blow?

Its 4+ ward vs non-magical attacks. Killing blow ignores armour and regen leaving you with MoT.

Hardly unkillable, infact hes very killable. A lord with axe of khorne should hand him his ****.

Chaos lord shave to challenge. As such axe of khorne/favour of khorne and helm of conquest is the best combo. Imo anyway. KB and +1 S when you have to challenge is priceless. In 3 games ive killingblowed a vampire lord and a sarus oldblood.

The Red Scourge
21-10-2008, 11:35
IMO the fighty lord won't be worth it – especially with the Will of Chaos special rule. Its just too many points on a too vulnerable model.

On top of that the chaos troops should be able to dish out enough pain without the support of heroes. So I'd rather spend my hero choices on sorcerers to add some support to the troops where they need it – from a distance.

W0lf
21-10-2008, 12:44
Oh totally. In a Tourny or WAAC army a chaos lord has never been worth his points. But chaos lords have something that many people find more important then min-maxed lists; The cool factor.

I was a notorius power gamer but ive since decided cool factor > power factor in many cases. Plus it gets to a point when the list is winning the games not the player lol.

Chaos lords are V. Cool

JonnyTHM
21-10-2008, 17:09
What the choas lord that has a 6+ ward vs killing blow?

Its 4+ ward vs non-magical attacks. Killing blow ignores armour and regen leaving you with MoT.


Note: not getting an armour save is not the same as 'ignores armour' otherwise all those armours that make you immune to killing blow would be worthless.

Killingblow does not negate ward saves granted by magic armour.

W0lf
21-10-2008, 19:19
The magic armour says its against non-magical attacks. Do you have the book?

athamas
21-10-2008, 19:50
if you want protection, go with MoT, Armour of Dargan and the crown of conquest... then mount on a barded steed, you get a 1+ save, regen and a 6+ ward, but can take a cannon ball to the chest and only lose one wound, and dont have to worry about KB...

if its Mok, you can be on the back of a juggernaught so only have to worry about things that ignore armour and are flaming... which is almost nothing.. and even then you only take 1 wound!

Mr_Rose
21-10-2008, 19:54
The magic armour says its against non-magical attacks. Do you have the book?
Killing blow is not necessarily a magic attack - it is a property of attacks, which may be magical or otherwise, ditto poison. However, most KB you will come across is granted as part of the effect of a magic weapon, making the 3+ ward useless. Of course, you can still take it against those lucky scraplauncher hits! :p

vodrake
21-10-2008, 20:11
Chaos Lord - 210
MOK - 15
Juggernaut - 50
Daemonsword - 75
Helm of many eyes - 25
Shield - 10

Total of 385

If you want somebody who will kill whatever looks at him, there you are.

He has 7-12 attacks at str 6-8 at WS8, 3 at Str 5 WS5 and a 0+ save, striking first...6 wounds a turn quite easily, only problem is if he hits himself at which point he has a 3, 4 or 5+ armour save. So yeah he can kill himself if you roll quite badly, but he can kill most most anything else if he roll's average.

Eta
21-10-2008, 22:41
Chaos Lord with Skinhidden Plate, Glaive of Putrifaction, Talisman of Protection, Daemonic Steed (or Disc of Tzeentch), shield and Mark of Tzeentch - 380 points (350)
2+ armour save, 5+ ward save

After wounding your opponent once he will in return not be able to wound you.

Greetings
Eta

Shamfrit
21-10-2008, 22:53
Daemon Prince
Mark of Tzeentch
Fury of the Blood God, Mantle of Chaos

4+ ward save, 3+ ward against magical spell wounds, MR2, strength of all missiles reduced by D3.

Pretty much only killable by running him down or a nasty combat character :D

Dexter099
22-10-2008, 02:00
What the choas lord that has a 6+ ward vs killing blow?

Its 4+ ward vs non-magical attacks. Killing blow ignores armour and regen leaving you with MoT.

Hardly unkillable, infact hes very killable. A lord with axe of khorne should hand him his ****.

Chaos lord shave to challenge. As such axe of khorne/favour of khorne and helm of conquest is the best combo. Imo anyway. KB and +1 S when you have to challenge is priceless. In 3 games ive killingblowed a vampire lord and a sarus oldblood.

I think you're thinking of the worng armor. There's a suit that gives +1 toughness for 60 points, but there's also the suit that gives a 4+ ward.

Mr_Rose
22-10-2008, 08:11
I think you're thinking of the worng armor. There's a suit that gives +1 toughness for 60 points, but there's also the suit that gives a 4+ ward.
I think you're thinking of the wrong book. There is no armour on the WoC book thst provides a flat 4+ ward save. There is, however, one in there that provides a 4+ ward against non-magical attacks only.
As I stated above, whilst KB is not always a part of a magical attack, in most situations where you'd actually want to use it this combo, it is.

urien
22-10-2008, 11:38
about that demon prince- so youve got a bogging down unit, if it;s got lucky, that costs around 400+ [points??

W0lf
22-10-2008, 11:55
yeah its nice the designers thought to put no decent ward save items in there.

Of course you can pay 50 pts for regen (pretty much a must on a lord) but thats ignored by the biggest threat aka killing blow.

Lordsaradain
22-10-2008, 12:37
yeah its nice the designers thought to put no decent ward save items in there.


How is that nice? :eyebrows:

Shamfrit
22-10-2008, 12:41
How is that nice? :eyebrows:

'Sarcasm' I believe.

What do people think about Vilitch's Obscene Dice generating ability and combos with magic items?

kramplarv
22-10-2008, 14:13
Chaos Lord with Skinhidden Plate, Glaive of Putrifaction, Talisman of Protection, Daemonic Steed (or Disc of Tzeentch), shield and Mark of Tzeentch - 380 points (350)
2+ armour save, 5+ ward save

After wounding your opponent once he will in return not be able to wound you.

Greetings
Eta

of course he will. charge a shaggoth and tell him he has S2. WRONG. he still have S6. and probably a GW. so your chaos lord will suffer heavy beating.

the glaive does not until the end of the combat. after some returning blows.

W0lf
22-10-2008, 15:06
What do people think about Vilitch's Obscene Dice generating ability

???

I didnt bother reading his rules after i heard no protection on a model that has to challenge...

Care to elaborate as some **** stole my stores copy of the warriors book.

He keeps comming up, how good is he?

airmang
22-10-2008, 15:33
i believe he gets the number of DD equal to the number of PD your opponent used to cast a spell that failed. and vice versa for DD your opponent used, but failed, he gets that many PD. I could have it backwards...

Shamfrit
22-10-2008, 18:02
Vilitch is effectively strong enough to be the only magic user on your side of the field: as airmang has rightly said, he works thusly:

For each of your opponent's unsucssesful attempts at casting a spell, you may generate an additional number of dispel dice equal to the amount of dice used to cast the spell to use as dispel dice that turn (in addition to whatever you normally have.)

For each of your opponent's unsecsessful dispelling attempts at your spells, you may add an equal amount of power dice to your pool for that turn, in addition to the 6 available to Vilitch...he has 4 WS 5 Str 5 attacks, T4 and no save worth speaking of, but his magical prowess is more than worthy of his 395 points i'd say - it punishes Vampires, harsh.

Mireadur
22-10-2008, 18:04
hi, nobody mentioned the armour which gives T6 plus the glaive which makes enemy S2 ? that makes your character definitely unkillable in a challenge/vs a monster if you can score 1 that single wound.

Von Wibble
22-10-2008, 18:24
I'm not sure - presumably a miscast counts as a failed attempt dso Villitch gets those dice too..

Mireadur - eta mentioned it several posts up. I personally do not like items that have effects on wounding as I prefer to increase my chances of getting the wound in the first place.

That said I have seen no mention of the helm of many eyes plus whip of subversion(?) combo, with the scream thingy gift. Against enemy characters you get just 1 wound to majke them attack their unit instead of you, and if they have so much armour that you think you won't hurt them inflict D6 S4 hits with IAS on top. Pricey, especially with the need for protection though.

Personally I think minimising with just a few points on protection (bronze armour, collar of khorne, crimson armour), and maybe utility items is the way to go.

riven5
22-10-2008, 20:19
of course he will. charge a shaggoth and tell him he has S2. WRONG. he still have S6. and probably a GW. so your chaos lord will suffer heavy beating.

the glaive does not until the end of the combat. after some returning blows.

Where does it say that the Glaive only makes wounded models S2 and T2 after close combat is over? I've only seen the rumors, mind you, but they all state that the glaive makes you S2 and T2 "for the rest of the game". Why wouldn't that take effect right away?

athamas
22-10-2008, 20:38
because it say... 'at the end of the combat'

cm2008
22-10-2008, 20:40
khorne lord on jugger with enchanted shield -1+ AS
Crown of everlasting 4+regen
collar of khorne 6+ ward MR2
biting blade
favor of the gods
word of agony

= one scary lord.

Mireadur
22-10-2008, 21:09
Arent Crown of everlasting conquest and collar of khorne talismans both of them? .

PS: ok just too many posts for today... See you all tomorrow!

thekiwi
22-10-2008, 21:30
If you combine the Black Tongue with the Pendant of Slaanesh, then you'll gain +1A when you lose that wound. You'd have to put it on a Chaos Lord for that to mean much, but it'd still be useful. Add a Sword of Striking, Mark of Khorne, a shield and a barded warhorse, and you'd have an injured (possibly dead) enemy mage and a Chaos Lord with a 1+ save and 7 attacks at S5 hitting (most of the time) on 2s. And the possibility of gaining more attacks when he suffers more wounds. All for 344 pts.

I also like the Sorceror Lord on a Disc with the Mark of Tzeentch and the Eye of Tzeentch.

Mr_Rose
22-10-2008, 22:23
Soo... Chosen Champions... Death's Head or Blasphemous Amulet? The Amulet is best on the charge, as you get to make 'em roll immediately you're done moving, but the head makes a great stand-and-shoot response to a charge from those pesky elf knights...

cm2008
22-10-2008, 23:07
probably forgot about that.

cold0
23-10-2008, 08:03
Death's Head or Blasphemous Amulet?

Death's Head forever; expecially vs. heavy armoured low T (3) cavalry.

W0lf
23-10-2008, 21:00
Wouldnt take chosen :P

I used them 3 times and the rolls were 100% pointless.

I got:
+1 Ld when they have a lord with them.
Cause terror. Against a vamps player when i had banner of rage anyway.
MR 3 against dwarves.

fun times.

Mr_Rose
23-10-2008, 21:11
Wouldnt take chosen :P

I used them 3 times and the rolls were 100% pointless.

I got:
+1 Ld when they have a lord with them.
Cause terror. Against a vamps player when i had banner of rage anyway.
MR 3 against dwarves.

fun times.
That's what Valkia's for...
Or you need to make a more pleasing sacrifice to the dice gods before the game. :p

Shamfrit
23-10-2008, 21:14
I must admit, I only got +1LD and Terror too.

I'd go for Favour of the Gods personally.

W0lf
23-10-2008, 21:22
im just using warriors and a war alter.

That way i can make the unit 'Chosen' For a turn but if my ogres/marauders need the boost they can have it.

Plus its fun to keep trying for a 12+ in a Tzeentch army.

I find it hurts a lot less when models die aswell now they are 3 pts cheaper a model.

Ominous Anonymous
24-10-2008, 00:23
Death's Head forever; expecially vs. heavy armoured low T (3) cavalry.

What's the range on that thing? I've got an idea for a funky Headless Horseman conversion for my Chosen/Knights Champion.

cold0
24-10-2008, 08:11
What's the range on that thing?

12". It always strike with 2+ so its' perfect for stand & shoot.


im just using warriors and a war alter.

That way i can make the unit 'Chosen' For a turn but if my ogres/marauders need the boost they can have it.

Agree. I have my splendid Chosen models but I will paint them in remote future as I have over 40+ from Realms of Chaos period; better Warriors+ War Altar so you can cover even other units with the altar power.

SirA
24-10-2008, 09:07
wow some good ideas here
i am curious what still might come up ;)

inq.serge
24-10-2008, 18:05
Will this work?

Saturnus the sado-masochist.

Lord.
Mark of Slaanesh
Pendant of slaanesh
Acid ichor
Regeneration crown.
Whatever you want.

Will he get +1 attack and a st4 hit on everyone wounding him if he regenerates the wound?

I'll however will take this combo:

Emelie Opheliadottir*:

Sorceress lady.
Slaaneshi
Boobsnake
Beguiling gem
Infernal Puppet
(Sometimes favour)
Maw (I call it ophidian maw, since there's an identical power with that name in =][=)

Emelies Right hand/maid
Sorceress
slaaneshi
boobsnake
black tongue
scream

Emelies banner
Exalted
slaaneshi
boobsnake
scream
BSB
Doom banner.

Emelies banner usually stays on top of a hill to get seen.

Beguiling gem gives a huge advantage in challenges if the opponent sees the banner.
Ophidian maw: I test or die (NO save at all!) (Vs man-sized only).

Easy challenge wining. Very good with favour.
The right hand will use tongue to annoy VC/DoC/Any non-slaan.
Puppet makes it just better.

A good thing is to have puppet + lots of hellcannons.
Not to kill, but to hope they misfire and cause a miscast on every mage.

*Pics of Emelie: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166357

Von Wibble
24-10-2008, 19:23
inq. serge - If a model is in a challenge it is in combat. Surely the unit he is in combat with blocks his LOS to the banner? (unless he is a large target).

Am I right in saying mounted models use their mounts I for the I check if it is lower? Dark elf cold one riding highborns beware if this is the case - 3 layers of save or not.

Doh! Man size only. So just mount your important models then.

inq.serge
25-10-2008, 08:48
If the man-sized model is mounted, then the man-sized model gets eaten, the mount doesn't, if I understood correct.

And everyone uses their own I.

But; Would the SM lord work?

Put him on a slaaneshi chariot, and take 2 more slaaneshi chariots.
Put them in one unit if possible, or keep them close.
Charge with all three on one unit at the same time. Will on average kill 11 light/heavy armoured elfs with Impact Hits alone. Nice for charging units of 10 swordmasters.

vinny t
25-10-2008, 16:14
I have a great combo...

Exalted Champion of Khorne riding a Chaos Steed with a flail

a cheap 150ish points for 5 Strength 7 Attacks 2+ save guy. Can be put in warriors or Knights!!!

Von Wibble
25-10-2008, 16:46
If the man-sized model is mounted, then the man-sized model gets eaten, the mount doesn't, if I understood correct.

And everyone uses their own I.

But; Would the SM lord work?



Except I just read the extendable maw rules and they clearly state it only works vs infantry.

inq.serge
25-10-2008, 18:10
Damn, I missed that!

Any ideas if the regeneration combo works?

Mr_Rose
25-10-2008, 18:19
Damn, I missed that!

Any ideas if the regeneration combo works?
Don't think so, sorry. I know the pendant doesn't work and I'm pretty sure the acid blood doesn't either.