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Mitsoulas33
12-10-2008, 07:09
Hello dudes... What is this machine spirit? I've heard that it might be a C'tan... Can anyone tell me the story...?

Coasty
12-10-2008, 07:16
That's the Machine God, the highest deity of the AdMech's religion. The Machine Spirit is...well, the AdMech have a rather pantheistic approach to technology, believing that all machines have a spirit within them.

Oberon
12-10-2008, 07:18
The machine spirit is that thing people of the imperium think inhabit every machine and weapon, and makes them work. If the machine spirit is sad, the machine won't work, if the spirit is angry, it will work harder (guns are "aroused for battle" beforehand, as are tanks). Basically it is AI.

You might be mistaking Omnissiah/Machine God to machine spirit. Omnissiah is the god of adeptus mechanicus and all things mechanical, and after C:Necrons it was thought that C'tan named Dragon lived under the surface of Mars (forge world, most important one too) and was infact the machine god. Still waiting for the official word on this though.

Unclejo
12-10-2008, 08:09
I thought that the Emperor was considered to be the Omnissiah?

Coasty
12-10-2008, 08:20
Depends who you ask. The AdMech probably say that to keep the Inquisition happy.

Unclejo
12-10-2008, 08:31
Depends who you ask. The AdMech probably say that to keep the Inquisition happy.

But the AdMech were saying that BEFORE the Inquisition existed.

Anyway, Lexicanum says "On his arrival at many of the worlds, the Cult Mechanicus recognised the Emperor as the long awaited Omnissiah, however with his ascension of the Golden Throne at the dawn of the Imperial Age this belief was largely discredited." so it seems I was wrong anyway.

precinctomega
12-10-2008, 08:43
The Machine God in the Cult's theology is the sum of all knowledge: it's deity in potentia rather than in fact, so there is no "Machine God" that can exist in reality.

There can, however, be an Omnissiah, which is a physical manifestation (and avatar, if you will) of the Machine God, distinguished by the coagulation of such boundless degrees of knowledge and technical wisdom that it approaches the nature of the Machine God in a single form.

There are dark rumours that a secret cabal within the Cult gave praise to a mysterious Omnissiah in the Noctis Labyrinthus of Mars. But when the Emperor came, he was publicly proclaimed to be the promised Omnissiah and the Cult of the Dragon (as it was known) went underground, although it remained influential behind the scenes.

The Emperor's status as the Omnissiah has been enshrined in Mechanicus orthodoxy for ten millennia, but the Cult of the Dragon is still there. Whether the entity is really in the Noctis Labyrinthus (or on the moon of Phobos as was recently hinted) is open to debate, as is the question of whether it is or is not a dormant C'tan (although the circumstantial evidence is certainly substantial).

The Cult of the Dragon isn't the "secret truth" of the Mechanicus. It's a heretic grouping within the Mechanicus, the vast majority of which accepts the Emperor's status as the Omnissiah. It's even rumoured that there's another secret group inside the Mechanicus that is aware of the Cult of the Dragon and is attempting to foil its efforts to revive the Dragon and seize control of the Mechanicus.

R.

Allen
12-10-2008, 12:31
Depends who you ask. The AdMech probably say that to keep the Inquisition happy.

Not exactly.
A short preview of "Mechanicum", the new Abnett's Horus Heresy novel, clearly states that the Mechanicus (the organization later re-named as Adeptus Mechanicus") recognized the Emperor as the Omnissiah during his (its?) first visit on Mars.

olmsted
13-10-2008, 02:40
this is what is recognized as the schism on mars. there are groups that think he is the machine god and there are groups that think the two are seperate.

in regard to the machine spirit. there is something to it when you read titanicus. there seems to be an inner beast especially with in the god machines that the princeps must control or loose them selves to. think ghost in the machine that technically gives a character to the machine.

many of us give such a personality to our cars. we give them names pet them and even talk to them when we need to. i remember my family was driving to Washington State and we were running on fumes the entire family was talking to the car "come on baby just over this next hill come on i know you can do it." i myself was scratching the door handle next to me. also the fact that many of us just use different rituals such as smacking the tvs to make them work.

Allen
13-10-2008, 08:06
this is what is recognized as the schism on mars. there are groups that think he is the machine god and there are groups that think the two are seperate.

in regard to the machine spirit. there is something to it when you read titanicus. there seems to be an inner beast especially with in the god machines that the princeps must control or loose them selves to. think ghost in the machine that technically gives a character to the machine.

many of us give such a personality to our cars. we give them names pet them and even talk to them when we need to. i remember my family was driving to Washington State and we were running on fumes the entire family was talking to the car "come on baby just over this next hill come on i know you can do it." i myself was scratching the door handle next to me. also the fact that many of us just use different rituals such as smacking the tvs to make them work.


The "spirit" of the Titans is not what the Imperium calls Machine Spirit.
Titans are semi-sentient machines, fully aware of their existence: they have not an advanced AI, but an animal-like, biological (or cybernetical, I don't remember well) "brain". Every Princeps linked with the Titan during the centuries of its existence leaves a "shadow", a "ghost", imprinted in the "spirit" of the Titan.

The sum of those factors is the "spirit" or the "mind" of the Titan as it's perceived by the men linked. Aggressive, warlike, animalistic and predatory ;)

Clockwork-Knight
13-10-2008, 12:29
It's still called a machine spirit. Anything else is an Abominable Intelligence and must be destroyed.
Machine spirits vary in their complexity. The Machine spirits of the colossal battle ships and titans are very very advanced.

malika
13-10-2008, 12:31
Check this thread (http://anargo-sector.net/community/index.php/topic,375.0.html) out, we've been having a similar discussion about it. :)