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Leman Russ
12-10-2008, 07:56
Was trawling the interwebs when I came across this gem of a website, TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php) and their 40k section here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Warhammer40000).

Eventuallyi came across this little nugget:


Warhammer 40000 (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Warhammer40000) takes every sci-fi cliche imaginable and takes it to the point of parody in both ridiculous power and unpleasantness (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkerAndEdgier) (painting it black and adding skulls, spikes and flames is a perennial favourite.) As an example, Space Marines (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperSoldier) are recruited with an extreme form of The Spartan Way (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSpartanWay) which only one in every hundred aspirants survive (the Chaos faction takes this same idea and runs with it so far that their Spartan Way (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSpartanWay) kills all but one in a thousand, and they're trying to decrease the survival rate to eliminate all weakness...). They are then submitted to genetic augmentation which makes them comprehensively superhuman, given years of insanely dangerous training and religious indoctrination to turn them into utterly fearless, pitiless fanatics. They're equipped with gigantic millenia-old suits of ornate Powered Armour (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PoweredArmour) covered in skulls, parchment strips affirming their purity and dedication, skulls, gold bling in the form of eagles and skulls, and skulls. They're given fully-automatic rocket launchers for pistols, deploy into combat in pods that come straight down from orbit without slowing, and spend their days fighting ancient unkillable zombie robots, gigantic flaming-head sex demons and the like. This is what one faction does with one tropeas background for its basic troops choice.
Despite what people may think, 40k is still a dark, nasty setting that continues to draw us in after decades of existance.

This, fellow Warseers, is what we live for.

For Russ and the Allfather, ATTACK!

Lord Damocles
12-10-2008, 09:51
This, fellow Warseers, is what we live for.
What, skulls?

:p

Kildash
12-10-2008, 10:10
WOW... yeah that really does make it seem really f$kkin awesome huh... ow, you know what, we should all start using the words fugging, since that's how they say it in "LEGION"... Besides, it means we don't have to reach for those annoying signs anymore...


but really, that IS sweet

Autarch_Celebrate
12-10-2008, 10:17
i hate when people cant just accept us as hobbists, instead just keep the insults coming but when you find what they like and you start up at them they cant take it, i guess thats why im here

Putty
12-10-2008, 10:22
two words.

final fantasy

Autarch_Celebrate
12-10-2008, 10:24
two words.

final fantasy

YES, that is such a good series of games that i love, i have 8[viii], 10[x], 10-2[x-2], and 12 xii. they are great

Ghachii
12-10-2008, 10:45
Did some people read that write-up as an insult? :eyebrows:

As far as I can see it pokes a little bit of light-hearted fun, but is essentially in awe of the extremeness and brutality of the setting.

Maidel
12-10-2008, 11:07
This is the link:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Warhammer40000

Scroll down to the -Contains examples of: - section

That is absolutely making my day.

Clockwork-Knight
12-10-2008, 12:51
The funny thing is, the Wh40k-section at TVTrope was written by Wh40k-fans. Anybody who feels insulted about that article needs to do a reality check again for his brain.

Coasty
12-10-2008, 13:04
It's hilarious and does rather a good job of advertising the game. I've tinkered with that page a teensy bit myself in the past...

DapperAnarchist
12-10-2008, 13:06
I like this. Its someone going "this game is ludicrous and badass. If you have a problem with that, start by pulling your head out of your fundament."

I've just seen to much "oh, this game is so dreadful I have to go on a forum for it and complain about it in every detail" recently...

Frankye
12-10-2008, 17:39
That page was so hilarious I laughed through most of it.
Very honest (couple of small mistakes, but nothign major), to the point, and well written.

Feor
12-10-2008, 17:52
"Berzerk button" is still my favorite, though the evaluation of Tau as "the good guys" is also a bright spot. :)

Argastes
12-10-2008, 18:13
Yeah, that's a good read.... but ugh, it annoys me when people exaggerate the equipment of Space Marines to make them sound more extreme. Like describing bolters as "fully automatic armour-piercing rocket-propelled grenade launchers". Or saying that drop pods don't slow down from orbital velocity before landing.

Victomorga
12-10-2008, 18:20
Was trawling the interwebs when I came across this gem of a website, TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php) and their 40k section here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Warhammer40000).

Eventuallyi came across this little nugget:

Despite what people may think, 40k is still a dark, nasty setting that continues to draw us in after decades of existance.

This, fellow Warseers, is what we live for.

For Russ and the Allfather, ATTACK!

I haven't visited the site, but the sample above seems to be crapping on 40k as uninspired, immature, and derivative.

and he forgot to mention all the skulls....

if this is written by 40k fans who are having a go at themselves, then I understand the tone. if not, it just seems like the author is looking down their nose at the 40k universe as being a convoluted mishmash of sci-fi cliches, pubescent male aggression, and thoughtless exaggerations.

and we all know THAT isn't the case....

Adra
12-10-2008, 18:24
Very funny. How can we not see the funny side of 40k? Its pretty silly and freaky really but we love it.

Frankye
12-10-2008, 18:36
Yeah, that's a good read.... but ugh, it annoys me when people exaggerate the equipment of Space Marines to make them sound more extreme. Like describing bolters as "fully automatic armour-piercing rocket-propelled grenade launchers".
That's quite an accurate description actually, bolters are very high-tech stuff compared to modern technology.

kikkoman
12-10-2008, 19:36
Striking Scorpions

that is all

Sekhmet
12-10-2008, 19:48
YES, that is such a good series of games that i love, i have 8[viii], 10[x], 10-2[x-2], and 12 xii. they are great

Yet you don't have the two best Final Fantasy games... 6 and 7.

Clockwork-Knight
12-10-2008, 19:55
Yet you don't have the two best Final Fantasy games... 6 and 7.
Truer words have never been spoken. Especially about FF VI. VII is also good, but VI is the most important one. :D

Argastes
12-10-2008, 20:10
That's quite an accurate description actually, bolters are very high-tech stuff compared to modern technology.

No, actually, bolters could quite easily be built with modern technology; they are not really futuristic or advanced. They are simply a large-caliber submachine gun firing rocket-propelled APHE projectiles. Rocket-propelled bullets have been perfectly feasible for several decades, and we already have APHE bullets in calibers smaller than that of a boltgun.

I say that "fully automatic armour-piercing rocket-propelled grenade launchers" is an exaggerated description because it draws an implicit comparison between modern day-rocket launchers or grenade launchers, when in fact a boltgun is totally dissimilar to both (and much less destructive on a round-for-round basis). Yes, it is a "rocket launcher" in a technical sense because it's projectiles are rocket-propelled, but when you say "rocket launcher", people think of a modern rocket launcher: A shoulder-fired weapon launching a sizable explosive projectile, generally for anti-tank use (although sometimes against bunkers or personnel). And saying "fully automatic rocket launcher" conjures up an image of such a weapon--an RPG-7 or M72 or something like that--firing rapidly in the manner of a machine gun. A boltgun is nothing like that; it is much more realistic to think of it as a conventional firearm whose bullets happen to be fired by rocket propulsion rather than traditional gunpowder-filled cartridges. It has far more in common with a conventional firearm of similar caliber than with any sort of real rocket launcher. The term "rocket launcher" has misleading connotations in common usage, despite it's technical accuracy.

And bolter shells are not "grenades" at all; simply containing explosive composition does not qualify a projectile as a grenade.

Maidel
12-10-2008, 20:23
No, actually, bolters could quite easily be built with modern technology;
And bolter shells are not "grenades" at all; simply containing explosive composition does not qualify a projectile as a grenade.

Would you accept :

fully automatic, high calliber, armour-piercing, rocket-propelled, explosive shell firing device

:p

Argastes
12-10-2008, 21:23
Hahah, well... Like I said, I think the best way to describe it is as a large-caliber SMG firing rocket-assisted APHE rounds. But I don't want this thread to get derailed into a discussion about firearms terminology; retrospectively, I shouldn't have said anything.

Leman Russ
12-10-2008, 22:17
Hahah, well... Like I said, I think the best way to describe it is as a large-caliber SMG firing rocket-assisted APHE rounds. But I don't want this thread to get derailed into a discussion about firearms terminology; retrospectively, I shouldn't have said anything.
No No its all good!

The whole point of the post was to highlight how awesomely awesome and mad 40k is!

The fact there was even a discussion about how a bolter works is (imo) a testament to the fans!

Frankye
12-10-2008, 23:26
The fact there was even a discussion about how a bolter works is (imo) a testament to the fans!
We have not even started talking about the recoil of the thing actually :p

btw, I really liked this bit:

Warhammer40000 is your Standard Sci Fi Setting injected with a cocktail of every drug known to man and genuine lunar dust, stuck in a blender with Alien, Mechwarrior, Starship Troopers and Star Wars, bathed in blood and turned up to eleventy billion (and then set on fire). Twice. With chainsaws.They did forget about the skulls however. And eagle bling. And skulls with eagle bling.

Dictator
13-10-2008, 00:23
That page is very funny. And totally shows how fugging bad-ass 40k is.

Argastes
13-10-2008, 00:33
We have not even started talking about the recoil of the thing actually :p

Should be quite mild, actually, since recoil energy increases with the square of the projectile velocity and boltgun rounds apparently leave the barrel at quite low velocity. Plus, the heavier the weapon, the less felt recoil there is, and boltguns are apparently quite heavy (although why this should be is unknown; given their described caliber and operation, a boltgun should actually be quite light and compact).

Brother Siccarius
13-10-2008, 00:36
No, actually, bolters could quite easily be built with modern technology; they are not really futuristic or advanced. They are simply a large-caliber submachine gun firing rocket-propelled APHE projectiles. Rocket-propelled bullets have been perfectly feasible for several decades, and we already have APHE bullets in calibers smaller than that of a boltgun.

I say that "fully automatic armour-piercing rocket-propelled grenade launchers" is an exaggerated description because it draws an implicit comparison between modern day-rocket launchers or grenade launchers, when in fact a boltgun is totally dissimilar to both (and much less destructive on a round-for-round basis). Yes, it is a "rocket launcher" in a technical sense because it's projectiles are rocket-propelled, but when you say "rocket launcher", people think of a modern rocket launcher: A shoulder-fired weapon launching a sizable explosive projectile, generally for anti-tank use (although sometimes against bunkers or personnel). And saying "fully automatic rocket launcher" conjures up an image of such a weapon--an RPG-7 or M72 or something like that--firing rapidly in the manner of a machine gun. A boltgun is nothing like that; it is much more realistic to think of it as a conventional firearm whose bullets happen to be fired by rocket propulsion rather than traditional gunpowder-filled cartridges. It has far more in common with a conventional firearm of similar caliber than with any sort of real rocket launcher. The term "rocket launcher" has misleading connotations in common usage, despite it's technical accuracy.

And bolter shells are not "grenades" at all; simply containing explosive composition does not qualify a projectile as a grenade.

You are really, really, really reading way too much into this.

It's not an accurate description, but for someone who has never heard of 40k, or most military tech, it's an accurate image.

Argastes
13-10-2008, 01:04
You are really, really, really reading way too much into this.

Like I said, retrospectively, I shouldn't have brought it up.... I wasn't really taking issue with that specific instance of the phrase "fully automatic rocket launcher". I was just commenting that it's something that bugs me in general, since that phrase gets used all the time to describe bolters. TVTropes using it just reminded me, so I said something brief about it. Then Frankye said that it really was an accurate description, so I explained to him why I didn't think so. So no, I don't think I was "reading too much into it". I wasn't reading much of anything into it, until another poster disagreed with me and I had to explain my point at more length.


It's not an accurate description, but for someone who has never heard of 40k, or most military tech, it's an accurate image.

Wow, this statement is the exact, 180-degree opposite of the truth. My entire point above is that while the phrase "fully automatic rocket launcher" IS an accurate description in a technical sense, it does NOT give an accurate image to someone who has never heard of 40K or most military tech. I don't know how you got that switched around. A person who doesn't know much about 40K or real weapons is exactly the sort of person for whom the image is inaccurate, because it is exactly that sort of person for whom the phrase "fully automatic rocket launcher" conjures up the completely inaccurate image of something like a modern-day rocket launcher blasting away at several hundred rounds per minute. The people who aren't going to necessarily get this inaccurate image are the people who DO know something about 40K or real weapons. 40K people are going to already know what a boltgun is, while real-life weapons people are immediately going to understand that the term "rocket launcher" doesn't automatically imply something like what most people think of when they hear "rocket launcher".

Firaxin
13-10-2008, 01:55
a boltgun should actually be quite light and compact).

Well its obviously very heavy because

a) Its made of denser/sci-fi/made-up/etc materials, making it harder to deteriate/malfunction from wear and tear.

b) But more importantly, so that a space marine can bash brains out with it (In the Inquisitor role playing game, a space marine could do more damage throwing his boltgun than actually firing it...).

Leman Russ
13-10-2008, 01:59
b) But more importantly, so that a space marine can bash brains out with it (In the Inquisitor role playing game, a space marine could do more damage throwing his boltgun than actually firing it...).

Of course, such an act is both Heresy and Blasphemy, so it will never happen lest you anger the Machine Spirit :D

Argastes
13-10-2008, 02:24
Damnit, a Space Marine shouldn't need anything more than his hands to bash brains out.

Templar Ben
13-10-2008, 02:52
I would expect a boltgun to be rather heavy. It is .75 caliber after all. Hold something like an M1 Enforcer. It has a round that is less than half the size (.30 Carbine) and with a much smaller magazine capacity and it is a beast.

Feor
13-10-2008, 03:04
I've always just called them Rapid Fired RPGs. Admitedly they're shooting concussion grenades, not fragmentation grenades (except Sternguard), but I still think it's a pretty good summation for anyone not terribly familiar with the game.

Also, Bolters, in their most recent incarnations, would not have a low muzzle velocity, they have a shell casing that's ejected. Most likely to ensure that they have killing velocity be it at 100 feet or 2 feet.

Brother Siccarius
13-10-2008, 03:06
Wow, this statement is the exact, 180-degree opposite of the truth. My entire point above is that while the phrase "fully automatic rocket launcher" IS an accurate description in a technical sense, it does NOT give an accurate image to someone who has never heard of 40K or most military tech. I don't know how you got that switched around. A person who doesn't know much about 40K or real weapons is exactly the sort of person for whom the image is inaccurate, because it is exactly that sort of person for whom the phrase "fully automatic rocket launcher" conjures up the completely inaccurate image of something like a modern-day rocket launcher blasting away at several hundred rounds per minute. The people who aren't going to necessarily get this inaccurate image are the people who DO know something about 40K or real weapons. 40K people are going to already know what a boltgun is, while real-life weapons people are immediately going to understand that the term "rocket launcher" doesn't automatically imply something like what most people think of when they hear "rocket launcher".

The term "fully automatic armour-piercing rocket-propelled grenade launchers" is an accurate image of a bolter's effects for someone who has never played or had experience with 40k. I don't see where you keep getting the wording of it as a rocket launcher, as it states "Rocket-propelled" and the only mention of it as a rocket launcher calls it a pistol a few words later (ie, "They're given fully-automatic rocket launchers for pistols") negating any problem the reader might have in thinking that it's shoulder mounted.

FashaTheDog
13-10-2008, 04:10
You know another thing that makes 40k awesome; chainsaw swords. Everyone seems to run around with them, the Imperium, Chaos, an entire Eldar Aspect, and Orks all have them as common equipment. Tell me you honestly wouldn't want one of those in real life, even if you just hung it on the wall and reved it up at parties to impress the guests. The only reason Tau lack them is because you don't see chainsaw swords in animes, the Tyranids are bugs, Daemons don't get it, and Dark Eldar and Necrons are too emo to admit that they want them too.

HK-47
13-10-2008, 04:34
That article is very hilarious, especially the quotes about laser sights, all the ones on religion, Nietzsche wannabe, Parental issues, Redshirt Army, Shared universe, Technopath, unnecessarily large interior, and A Wizard did it to name a few.

Argastes
13-10-2008, 06:08
I would expect a boltgun to be rather heavy. It is .75 caliber after all. Hold something like an M1 Enforcer. It has a round that is less than half the size (.30 Carbine) and with a much smaller magazine capacity and it is a beast.

:confused: Are you kidding? Even a full-sized M1 carbine is a very lightweight and compact rifle, and the Enforcer is a short-barreled version with no stock! It's overall length is like 18 inches and it weighs less than six pounds with a full magazine. It's downright tiny. And yeah, I've held one, and fired one. I guess it's a "beast" in comparison to most pistols, but it's really a stockless rifle, and by rifle standards, it's very small and light.

That said, yes, a boltgun would probably be bigger than an Enforcer. But not really by that much. There is no reason a boltgun should be any larger than a modern carbine-type assault rifle, and since it has to contend with fairly minimal internal pressures, it could be quite light. It might be fairly hefty with a full magazine, because those cartridges ARE quite big, but the unloaded weight could easily be around 8-10 pounds or less. And that's with modern materials; futuristic materials could cut the weight even further.



I've always just called them Rapid Fired RPGs. Admitedly they're shooting concussion grenades, not fragmentation grenades (except Sternguard), but I still think it's a pretty good summation for anyone not terribly familiar with the game.

Also, Bolters, in their most recent incarnations, would not have a low muzzle velocity, they have a shell casing that's ejected. Most likely to ensure that they have killing velocity be it at 100 feet or 2 feet.

Well, I think that the phrase "rapid fired RPGs" has the exact same problem as "fully automatic rocket launcher"; it draws a comparison with a real-life weapon (the RPG-7 and other RPGs) which have little in common with a boltgun. So I think it's really a misleading summation for anyone not familiar with the game. If someone doesn't know what a boltgun is and you tell them it's a "rapid fire RPG", they are probably not going to realize that it's actually a big machine-pistol firing rounds about the size of a shotgun shell, with no bursting radius. And the boltgun shell is not a "concussion grenade", it's an explosive bullet.

Yeah, I know that bolter ammunition has a cartridge casing. That's not just in their most recent incarnation; that's been present since the beginning. Even the Rogue Trader art shows boltguns ejecting spent brass. What's recent is GW's explanation for this: They have told us that the projectile is fired from the barrel using a small "booster" propellant charge, which is contained in the cartridge casing, before the rocket motor ignites and provides the round's main propulsion. That will prevent the projectile from being stopped at the muzzle by any obstruction, but it still cannot provide the kind of muzzle velocity that is referred to as "high velocity" in firearms. Muzzle velocity is still probably subsonic.


The term "fully automatic armour-piercing rocket-propelled grenade launchers" is an accurate image of a bolter's effects for someone who has never played or had experience with 40k. I don't see where you keep getting the wording of it as a rocket launcher, as it states "Rocket-propelled" and the only mention of it as a rocket launcher calls it a pistol a few words later (ie, "They're given fully-automatic rocket launchers for pistols") negating any problem the reader might have in thinking that it's shoulder mounted.

To repeat myself.... I wasn't taking issue specifically with the TVTropes description, it just reminded me of how it annoys me when people call boltguns "rocket launchers", so I made a general comment regarding that point. I wasn't addressing the TVTropes article in particular, so it does you little good to point out that the term I criticized wasn't the exact same term that TVTropes used. I thought I made this clear in my last post.

But if you want to look at the specific wording of the TVTropes article, then yes, it is still inaccurate; the boltgun is NOT a "rocket-propelled grenade launcher" any more than it is a "rocket launcher". And the phrase "rocket-propelled grenade launcher" is going to give 40K newbies just as much of an inaccurate impression of the boltgun as does the phrase "rocket launcher".

Imperialis_Dominatus
13-10-2008, 06:49
Was trawling the interwebs when I came across this gem of a website, TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php) and their 40k section here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Warhammer40000).

Eventuallyi came across this little nugget:

Despite what people may think, 40k is still a dark, nasty setting that continues to draw us in after decades of existance.

This, fellow Warseers, is what we live for.

For Russ and the Allfather, ATTACK!

Yes, that article is gold.


i hate when people cant just accept us as hobbists, instead just keep the insults coming but when you find what they like and you start up at them they cant take it, i guess thats why im here

...what?


two words.

final fantasy

That reminds you of how awesome 40k is?


I like this. Its someone going "this game is ludicrous and badass. If you have a problem with that, start by pulling your head out of your fundament."

Yep.


I haven't visited the site, but the sample above seems to be crapping on 40k as uninspired, immature, and derivative.

and he forgot to mention all the skulls....

if this is written by 40k fans who are having a go at themselves, then I understand the tone. if not, it just seems like the author is looking down their nose at the 40k universe as being a convoluted mishmash of sci-fi cliches, pubescent male aggression, and thoughtless exaggerations.

and we all know THAT isn't the case....

I do believe you've misinterpreted the tone of that article.


Yet you don't have the two best Final Fantasy games... 6 and 7.

Haven't played 6 but the story sounds great. 7 is God on a stick.


You know another thing that makes 40k awesome; chainsaw swords. Everyone seems to run around with them, the Imperium, Chaos, an entire Eldar Aspect, and Orks all have them as common equipment. Tell me you honestly wouldn't want one of those in real life, even if you just hung it on the wall and reved it up at parties to impress the guests. The only reason Tau lack them is because you don't see chainsaw swords in animes, the Tyranids are bugs, Daemons don't get it, and Dark Eldar and Necrons are too emo to admit that they want them too.

Yeah, lol, chainswords are awesome. Next time someone asks me why I play with little toy soldiers, I'll either direct them to the TVTropes website or simply say 'chainsaw swords' and look at them like I expect an epiphany of inspiration to hit them.


That article is very hilarious, especially the quotes about laser sights, all the ones on religion, Nietzsche wannabe, Parental issues, Redshirt Army, Shared universe, Technopath, unnecessarily large interior, and A Wizard did it to name a few.

Yeah, I need to visit that site more often.

WrYpoRrY
13-10-2008, 07:06
"A futuristic space Inquisition ruthlessly hunts down anyone with even a hint of the taint of the heretic, the mutant, or the alien, and is backed up by legions of supercharged daemonhunting super soldiers and fanatical power-armoured battle nuns." -the site.

That said, they are Really really cool.

Gotta love those fanatical battle nuns.

precinctomega
13-10-2008, 07:08
I can't help thinking that someone at GW - Alan Merrett, perhaps - spends time on TV Tropes trying to work out how to squeeze another trope into the GW background.

R.

Unclejo
13-10-2008, 08:27
The best thing about 40k is that, in the far future, and faced with technology in advance of our own, the Imperium has developed equipment to let people punch tanks.

Guns are for wussies.

Leman Russ
13-10-2008, 08:32
And while I may have to be purged for this, the whole concept of Tyranids seems over the top awesome too:

Tyranids: Extra-galactic locusts in apparently limitless numbers. If they take over a planet, they devour all organic material, eat the soil, drain the geothermal heat from the planet's core, drink the oceans and suck up the atmosphere (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetEater), leaving an airless rock. Hungry (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HordeOfAlienLocusts). Extremely psychic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PsychicPowers), with the psychic chatter (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PsychicStatic) that forms their Hive Mind (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HiveMind) being so powerful that their mere presence drives psychics insane and interferes with technology that uses psychics - including interstellar travel and communications. Bug Wars (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BugWar) crop up wherever they go, with the suggestion that the three galaxy-eatingly-enormous, near-unstoppable Hive Fleets are just scouts for the real invasion (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWarHasJustBegun).

DarkMatter2
13-10-2008, 12:43
I don't really like the article. It gets under my skin by sensationalizing it just a bit too much.

The whole way that TVTropes treats 40k is just silly to me, honestly.

GavT
13-10-2008, 12:56
I'm a big fan of TVTropes, and I particularly like the description of the Warhammer 40,000 universe. If nothing else, it serves to remind us that it is inclusive, over-the-top and fun (which is an odd thing to say about a universe that's so pessimistic in function). Some people claim that 40K isn't original, this proves that this may or may not be the case but if you're going to be inspired cast your net wide and deep without prejudice! The long list of tropes that exist in 40K I see not as an indictment but as praise, for blending together so many disparate things into one universe. This is borne out by the popularity of the 40K background, because pretty much anyone who likes the general style can find an image or story that fits their tastes.

Emperor bless chainsaw swords and, my favourite, space-elf knights on flying bikes with laser lances :)

40K has also spawned its own phrase on TVTropes, one that we all know and love:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoreDakka

GAV

DapperAnarchist
13-10-2008, 17:46
What I liked about the page was its recurring references to Nightmare Fuel - because, when it comes down to it, 40K is SCARY. Seriously. There is so much twisted stuff in there, so much insanity, so much blood, so much horror...

Argastes
13-10-2008, 19:36
What I liked about the page was its recurring references to Nightmare Fuel - because, when it comes down to it, 40K is SCARY. Seriously. There is so much twisted stuff in there, so much insanity, so much blood, so much horror...

Ehh... I feel like 40K isn't as bizarre and frightening as it used to be. It certainly still has the potential to be--all the same setting and thematic elements are still there--but I think that a lot of the more recent fluff really hasn't lived up to that potential in the same way that the old stuff did. I remember being genuinely disturbed by some of the old RT and 2nd Edition fluff; and much of it, while not truly disturbing, still conveyed this sense of weirdness, depravity, terror, and insanity. Nowadays it's mostly just full of fairly straightforward violence described in a fairly cookie-cutter tone, and the parts of that they try to make disturbing/scary are generally unconvincing; the current crop of writers just seem unable to emulate the old style effectively on the rare occasions that they try (IMO, of course). I feel like it's gotten cartoonish, in a way.

Not that I don't still love the setting, of course. I just wish some of the old RT/2nd Edition atmosphere was still around.

Coasty
13-10-2008, 19:57
if this is written by 40k fans who are having a go at themselves, then I understand the tone.

We Tropers write about everything in that tone. It's half the fun. :D