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FunkyRatDemon
12-10-2008, 20:10
See post 15 for updated list


Hello, older player here, I just got back into Fantasy after playing 40k for roughly 7 years...Thought I'd pick up my old army again

I see mostly VC, Nurgle based Daemons, and Cavalry Bretonians.

Going for a more "Magic-Force'
Level 4 Sorceress, Pendant of Khaeleth, Focus familiar (was thinking Staff may be better)
Level 2 Sorceress, 2 Dispell Scroll
Level 2 Sorcerress, 1 Dispell Scroll, Sacrificial Dagger
Assassin, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, additional HW
25 Spearman, Full Command, Shields
20 Corsairs, extra HW, Full Command
10 Crossbowman, Guard Master
10 Crossbowman, Guard Master
5 Dark Riders, Musician, crossbows
5 Shades, Great Weapons
5 Cold Ones, Full Command, Ring of Hotek
Hydra
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
-Total 2250-

Or I could drop the Level2 Sorceress w/ Dispell + Dagger along with 5 Corsairs for:
6 Harpies
1 Master on Cold One, additional HW, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of Slaughter

What are your thoughts? (Overall, or with BSB vs Lv2 Sorceress)
I do want to stick with 2 Bolt Throwers and a Hydra, and at least 20 Spearmen (converted from Corsairs...took forever)
I refuse to give Shields to Crossbowmen though, Never needed to last edition, don't see the reason this edition.

Also with placement, not sure where to place my Lord, Heros or Assassin...ideas?

LION
13-10-2008, 16:43
:pDear Mr Rat Demon,
thank you for conatcting us with your proposed Dark Elf Magic Based Host. Its has been examined by the myrid poorly qualified generals inhabitating my mind at present and we have come to the below conclusions:

(1) Three Blood Crazed Elf magic users would be more effective than only two. The Sacrifical Dagger is to good to leave in the Temple & would be best wielded by your General in a large block of Bunker Spear Elves

(2) Choose the location of your hidden Assasin Asset acording to your faced opponent.

(3) Shields for your RCrossbow models would give them a useful 4+ save in close combat. Gold is good..but how can Citzens of the North support their econmy in hard times by spending looted foreign currency, when they are dead corpes on the battlefield?

As to you other request involving the currently Vacant Post titled "High Defender Of Ulthan" , we are sorry to say that at this point you have failed to reach the short list. Please do not hesitate in re applying at a future date LION

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FunkyRatDemon
14-10-2008, 05:38
:pDear Mr Rat Demon,
thank you for conatcting us with your proposed Dark Elf Magic Based Host. Its has been examined by the myrid poorly qualified generals inhabitating my mind at present and we have come to the below conclusions:

(1) Three Blood Crazed Elf magic users would be more effective than only two. The Sacrifical Dagger is to good to leave in the Temple & would be best wielded by your General in a large block of Bunker Spear Elves

(2) Choose the location of your hidden Assasin Asset acording to your faced opponent.

(3) Shields for your RCrossbow models would give them a useful 4+ save in close combat. Gold is good..but how can Citzens of the North support their econmy in hard times by spending looted foreign currency, when they are dead corpes on the battlefield?

As to you other request involving the currently Vacant Post titled "High Defender Of Ulthan" , we are sorry to say that at this point you have failed to reach the short list. Please do not hesitate in re applying at a future date LION

---------------------------------------------
Lions Weekly Bits Box Blitz Sponsored by Elf Glue
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165087
I do now agree that 3 Sorcerresses would be better overall
However, wouldn't the Focus Familiar do better on the Lv4? Considering she has so many spells already, generates lots of PD already (+PoD)

Ok, I guess I;ll jsut place my Assassin afterwards (post-deployment)

I don't really want to give my RxB'men shields. Not only for modeling reasons, but also since I don't want to throw in the 20pts, and if their getting charged they're likely in trouble anyways.

Mullitron
14-10-2008, 12:11
[QUOTE=
I don't really want to give my RxB'men shields. Not only for modeling reasons, but also since I don't want to throw in the 20pts, and if their getting charged they're likely in trouble anyways.[/QUOTE]

I agree tho iam still in the process of painting my crossbowmen so havent used them in a game yet. Even if were wrong tho i dont think its going 2 be a big game make or breaking part of your army

FunkyRatDemon
14-10-2008, 21:43
I agree tho iam still in the process of painting my crossbowmen so havent used them in a game yet. Even if were wrong tho i dont think its going 2 be a big game make or breaking part of your army
In the last edition, I never got them involved into combat, and if they were it was by stuff with scout and they were already useless for the rest of the game
20pts isn't alot, but I'd prefer to keep it off to insure everything else is 'maxed' in #'s

Mannfred
15-10-2008, 09:34
Okaii you going for a Magic heavy force to begin with why not max out on mages...like u have 3 u could easily fit in four....and why not take Morathi shes way more powerful at magic knowing all 6 spell of Dark Magic and with a +1 to cast...bit more pricy i must admit...

Okaii 3 dispell scrolls u won't be needing that if ur going offensive magic u'll have like 6 dispell dice already maybe if u want seal of ghrond and get like 7 and that'll be fine usually maybe a scroll but not 3 too waste of points...take like Darkstar cloak and tome of furion to up ur magic and yesh u need that staff....it's like so so good...

U need more support units like true your block of 20 spearmen and 20 cosairs will hold any unit in combat but like u can't take them out...or break them....u have 5 Cold One Knights with the ring of hotek lol ur playing a very dangerous game...if u want magic protection just simply take a null talisman...ur army only has two hammer units which need to be taken into consideration...maybe wat u could do is split the unit of corsairs into 2 units of 10 and just use them to protect/threaten the flanks when u hold ur opponant with the warriors...

Your need some march blockers of else ur opponent will be in charge range quick so maybe cut out ur shades even though their awesome for harpies..

FunkyRatDemon
15-10-2008, 17:50
Okaii you going for a Magic heavy force to begin with why not max out on mages...like u have 3 u could easily fit in four....and why not take Morathi shes way more powerful at magic knowing all 6 spell of Dark Magic and with a +1 to cast...bit more pricy i must admit...

Okaii 3 dispell scrolls u won't be needing that if ur going offensive magic u'll have like 6 dispell dice already maybe if u want seal of ghrond and get like 7 and that'll be fine usually maybe a scroll but not 3 too waste of points...take like Darkstar cloak and tome of furion to up ur magic and yesh u need that staff....it's like so so good...

U need more support units like true your block of 20 spearmen and 20 cosairs will hold any unit in combat but like u can't take them out...or break them....u have 5 Cold One Knights with the ring of hotek lol ur playing a very dangerous game...if u want magic protection just simply take a null talisman...ur army only has two hammer units which need to be taken into consideration...maybe wat u could do is split the unit of corsairs into 2 units of 10 and just use them to protect/threaten the flanks when u hold ur opponant with the warriors...

Your need some march blockers of else ur opponent will be in charge range quick so maybe cut out ur shades even though their awesome for harpies..
I wasn't sure if Morathi would be good or not, I'm too Defensive of a player otherwise. Yes she's incredible, but I really haven't heard how good she is yet and would like to see if she proves her pts in 2250pts games as opposed to 3000pts matches. 4 Sorceresses! Isn't that too much?

I do now realize that 3 Scrolls is too many. My Problem with the Seal is its pts limit, I could jsut give a Lv2 Sorcerous the Seal + Tome. Where should the staff go? Likely on the Lv4, correct? I would like to keep the Lv2 with Dagger (She would likely go in the 25brick of Spearman).

I was worried about my lack of 'hammer'. Would you not consider a brick of 20 Corsairs w/ 2 HW a 'hammer'?
Is the Talisman really that much better then Ring? I was planning on getting my CoK out of my area on Turn1, hopefully making them get into combat by Turn2 and preventing them from a successful Magic Phase

Does this list warrent the Assassin? If not, thats alot of pts available towards another brick of 20Spearman w/ Shield +FC or 5 more Cold Ones (likely 'naked')

Shades were great for me when I played them along time ago, They've proven good to me, particularly vs. VC and Bretonians. I did wonder in my 'sub-option' if a BSB + Harpies would be better then the Lv2 + 5 corsairs. I do have the Dark Riders w/ Musician for preventing Marching and such, but Harpies can be usefull, just not sure how they'd fair vs my normal opponents

thanks for the insight!

Dark Apostle197
16-10-2008, 00:05
I was worried about my lack of 'hammer'. Would you not consider a brick of 20 Corsairs w/ 2 HW a 'hammer'?

Not really. They can't handle any scary combat unit.


Is the Talisman really that much better then Ring? I was planning on getting my CoK out of my area on Turn1, hopefully making them get into combat by Turn2 and preventing them from a successful Magic Phase
The talisman doesn't cause Miscast on your guys... If you're sending one of your two hammers off die get into combat early, they probably won't last long.

And it is unit targeted within twelve too, so running them up make casting magic missiles dangerous early on.

FunkyRatDemon
16-10-2008, 03:11
Not really. They can't handle any scary combat unit.


The talisman doesn't cause Miscast on your guys... If you're sending one of your two hammers off die get into combat early, they probably won't last long.

And it is unit targeted within twelve too, so running them up make casting magic missiles dangerous early on.

Gotcha on both notes.
So, should I lose the Assassin for another 'hammer'? I know I can reformulate somehow another 5 CoK's into the army if I lose him

Talisman will replace then the Ring

FunkyRatDemon
17-10-2008, 08:27
-New 2250 list-
Supreme Sorceress, LV4, Pendant of Khaeleth, Black Staff
Sorceress, Lv2, 2 Dispel Scroll
Sorceress, Lv2, Seal of Ghrond, Tome of Furion
20 Dark Elf Warriors, FC
20 Corsairs, FC
5 Dark Riders, Repeater Crossbows, Musician
10 Repeater Crossbowman, Guardmaster
10 Repeater Crossbowman, Guardmaster
5 Cold Ones, FC, Null Talisman
5 Cold Ones, FC, Null Talisman
1 War Hydra
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers

Leaves me with 33pts left
10PD (before PoD), 6DD

1 Lv2 will likely use the Lore of Shadows (which would be better? I think the 1 w/ the Tome)
If I dropped the Corsairs to 15, and could lose 2 more pts then I could toss in 5 Shades w/ Great Weapons

I was really hoping to put in the Power Familiar of Dagger, but because the Seal is 30pts I can't run that...

I think I have enough Shooting, and now enough 'Hammers' (2 Cold Ones + Hydra)

Not a big fan of 'Khainite' units...so sorry to others who suggest them. I was thinking of running Black Guard, but $$$ wise I'd like to avoid, and I'm not sure how they'd match the 'theme' of the army. (Theme still in the works)
I run lots of Magic + Dispell becuase I mainly play Vampires, Nurgle Daemons and Bretonians. Hence the Tomes appearance, then again...

Mannfred
17-10-2008, 13:24
Okaii i like the new list but i mean theres some personally changes i'd like to make with justification ofcourse....firstly the two units of cold one knights...like i don't know if u've modelled them yet but i've always done bare knights....like honestly don't take full commands - because it's only a 5 wound unit carrying a banner like thats potentially another 100 vps ur giving away to ur opponent with a simple charge - like if by some accident u get charged u'll probably lose combat to static combat res - like usually 2 ranks; standard; outnumber to ur standard ur opponent is already up by three points...probably they'll win combat and break ur knights; so u lose already 135 + ur banner it's not worth it the way i see it.... + u won't need a banner if u get a flank charge....like all ur opponent has is outnumber and musician so there only up by 1 since u have a flank + u get a charge bonus...i mean hey it's true if u get the charge then banner will break ur opponent easier but if u don't u won't just be giving away 100vps for free....+ saves u a bucket load of points....

Btw ur knights don't need magic protection; like can't u just dispell scroll and dice all there first turn spells and just do a second turn charge i mean...it's not unreasonable...so by removing ur full command and null talismans...thats an extra 110pts...easily enough pts to get shades....

Another thing is bulk out ur warriors i mean 20 is a big block but seriously it's not enough like a turn of shooting could well throw them into a panic; plus ur vsing mostly fear causing enemies so having more than 20 models helps against the inevitable close combat; and if u outnumber then u won't break so easily...personally i do a unit of 28 spears....7 wide - 4 deep maximum attacks since but most importantly i'll outnumber most undead armies that field 20 man block...

Umm Guard master up grades for crossbows honeslty i've never seen the point like yeah +1 bs is gud but for 10pts it's so not worth it...i'd rather have shields than a guard master; i less casualty means more than just hitting maybe once more per turn...but yesh don't want shields so i won't push it....

Btw i'm not a real fan of cosairs like never was never will be so to me u could make that unit of 20 cosairs into 3 units of 10 spearmen for charge redirection and flank charges - msu always works well with elves...since more units gives u more freedom to do more elaborate maneveurs and set up better traps...

Anyways yeah thats a little of my comments for now

popisdead
17-10-2008, 18:51
are you really taking 8 levels of magic? why bother? just don't' play and brag instead?

FunkyRatDemon
17-10-2008, 20:05
Okaii i like the new list but i mean theres some personally changes i'd like to make with justification ofcourse....firstly the two units of cold one knights...like i don't know if u've modelled them yet but i've always done bare knights....like honestly don't take full commands - because it's only a 5 wound unit carrying a banner like thats potentially another 100 vps ur giving away to ur opponent with a simple charge - like if by some accident u get charged u'll probably lose combat to static combat res - like usually 2 ranks; standard; outnumber to ur standard ur opponent is already up by three points...probably they'll win combat and break ur knights; so u lose already 135 + ur banner it's not worth it the way i see it.... + u won't need a banner if u get a flank charge....like all ur opponent has is outnumber and musician so there only up by 1 since u have a flank + u get a charge bonus...i mean hey it's true if u get the charge then banner will break ur opponent easier but if u don't u won't just be giving away 100vps for free....+ saves u a bucket load of points....

Btw ur knights don't need magic protection; like can't u just dispell scroll and dice all there first turn spells and just do a second turn charge i mean...it's not unreasonable...so by removing ur full command and null talismans...thats an extra 110pts...easily enough pts to get shades....

Another thing is bulk out ur warriors i mean 20 is a big block but seriously it's not enough like a turn of shooting could well throw them into a panic; plus ur vsing mostly fear causing enemies so having more than 20 models helps against the inevitable close combat; and if u outnumber then u won't break so easily...personally i do a unit of 28 spears....7 wide - 4 deep maximum attacks since but most importantly i'll outnumber most undead armies that field 20 man block...

Umm Guard master up grades for crossbows honeslty i've never seen the point like yeah +1 bs is gud but for 10pts it's so not worth it...i'd rather have shields than a guard master; i less casualty means more than just hitting maybe once more per turn...but yesh don't want shields so i won't push it....

Btw i'm not a real fan of cosairs like never was never will be so to me u could make that unit of 20 cosairs into 3 units of 10 spearmen for charge redirection and flank charges - msu always works well with elves...since more units gives u more freedom to do more elaborate maneveurs and set up better traps...

Anyways yeah thats a little of my comments for now
I have 1 Squad of CoK with FC, but I could just buy more (They are that incredible).
I would at least give them the Dread Knight, I could lose the Talismans as well...that would give me a nice boost in pts (which I really could/do want)

Guardmasters are only 5each, so 10overall for the 2. I guess I could try without them (I;ll just use my conversions as regs then). I was avoiding shields on them for practicality reasons. And if you've ever seen them with shields it looks horrible too...

With my extra pts I'll just get more Spearman, I had more in the initial list anyways

I think I will keep the Corsairs, not only do I love the models, but their resistance to Magic (Nurgle and Vampire) is really invaluable, their cloaks help alot. and 2A each really helps.

Thanks for your Help


are you really taking 8 levels of magic? why bother? just don't' play and brag instead?
I'm not sure about the sarcasm...Yeah...2 Lv2's and 1 Lv4...because DE are great at Magic...

Dark Apostle197
17-10-2008, 21:13
I basically agree with everything Manfred said except with talismins. They aren't necessary, but I wouldn't plan on a second turn charge, especially to ensure magic not hitting them.

FunkyRatDemon
17-10-2008, 21:57
Level 4 Sorceress, Pendant of Khaeleth, Black Staff (in 23elf-unit) [350pts]
Level 2 Sorceress, Dispell Scroll, Tome of Furion [175pts]
Level 2 Sorcerress, Sacrificial Dagger, Dispel Scroll (in 24elf-unit) [185pts]
24 Spearman, Full Command, Shields [183pts]
23 Spearman, Full Command, Shields [176pts]
15 Corsairs, extra HW, Full Command [175pts]
10 Crossbowman [100pts]
10 Crossbowman [100pts]
5 Dark Riders, Musician, crossbows [117pts]
5 Cold Ones, Dread Knight [151pts]
5 Cold Ones, Dread Knight [151pts
1 Hydra [175pts]
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers [200pts]
-Total 2238-

Sorcery:
Lv4 will have Dark Magic
Lv2 w/ Tome likely Fire/Shadow
Lv2 w/ Dagger likely Dark Magic
10PD (+PoD +Dagger), 6DD (+2 Dispel Scroll)

I like this list much more
Any more thoughts?

Dark14
18-10-2008, 06:02
dump the dark riders for shades or even another sorc. :) and all dark magic i recommend

FunkyRatDemon
18-10-2008, 21:34
dump the dark riders for shades or even another sorc. :) and all dark magic i recommend

That would seem cool...
But Dark Riders are my War Machine hunters and march-preventers...+they are the best fast cavalry in the game!

Mannfred
19-10-2008, 09:03
Well i can tell u i like what i see on the list; like 95% of everything but maybe just think about swapping Dark Riders for 2 units of 5 man harpies...but yeah it's an awesome list...now move on from list writing....play some games and tell us some results....

Mooseman007
19-10-2008, 16:52
I think your list is pretty good, the magic is a life saver.

FunkyRatDemon
19-10-2008, 18:51
Well i can tell u i like what i see on the list; like 95% of everything but maybe just think about swapping Dark Riders for 2 units of 5 man harpies...but yeah it's an awesome list...now move on from list writing....play some games and tell us some results....
The reason I'm running Dark RIders over Harpies is because Dark RIders are more effective vs Bretonians, VC and likely Daemons which I face more often, rest assured though, in larger games they will go in, or if I'm facing against non-VC/BRet's or Daemons. Thanks for the approval


I think your list is pretty good, the magic is a life saver.
Thanks, hoping to do well with all the Magic