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View Full Version : How do I make a good Daemon fantasy/40k army using the exact same models?



sephiroth87
13-10-2008, 19:08
This is the plan and I need your help. Up front, this requires 40k knowledge of the daemons as well as fantasy knowledge of the same army.

I want to buy daemon models and have a decent army for both 40k and fantasy using the exact same models. I know that neither will be the best army out there with this method, but that's not my main concern.

So if you were going to build one army that was for both fantasy and 40k, what would you build and how would you build your lists?

I know this is also a 40k question, but the idea of taking one army box to the store every week and playing two different game systems is very appealing to me. Tactically, I think it's possible to win games with either list. I think that different choices are effective in both lists, so I won't be able to spam out on one specific unit that's good in only one system.

Out of 40k, the only unit I can't take is the soulgrinder, as it has no fantasy equivalent. I think all fantasy daemons have a 40k equivalent. I figure that to do this, I'm going to have to do the big daemon group hug and have a variety of units from different gods.

On points, I'm looking to build a 2000-2250 point fantasy list and with the exact same models, build a 1500-2000 point 40k list.
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If anything else, it's a neat thought exercise and should help some other people who'd like to build two armies for the price of one. Anyone got ideas?

Gazak Blacktoof
13-10-2008, 19:59
I don't know anything about the 40K daemons but in fantasy the best daemons seem to be flamers and hounds, horrors are also very useful because they provide offencive and defencive magic.

For characters the daemon prince apparently isn't very points efficient but everything else works well enough. Heralds have a locus effect in warhammer so if you include heralds for a particular god they should be accompanied by an infantry unit from that army. I've seen a few battle reports where people have also made excellent use of tzeentch heralds in flying chariots but I don't think that's an option for 40k.

Screamers and furries are both also very useful for taking out enemy war machines and forcing characters to remain in units.

EDIT: Have you got an idea as to which gods you want to use or any particular models you like? If you're going to buy, paint and assemble an army its very important to end up with an army you like and want to spend time on as well as one that is competent on the table top.

sephiroth87
14-10-2008, 03:26
As far as what I want to play, I guess I'd like a mix. I have a slaanesh mortals army already. I like all the models and I just don't want to spam out on flamers, which is what I play against over and over again.

I kinda figured the daemon prince was pretty bad, but the greater daemons seem pretty good for the points. I've played against the fantasy army a lot, but have little experience with the 40k. I might try this post on the 40k forum and see what I get, also. Thanks for the tips!

Flinch
14-10-2008, 05:14
I've been mulling the idea of 1 army, 2 game systems since 40k second edition (Daemon World Army, what.. 10 years ago? longer?) and fell short of a complete daemon army until their latest incarnation.

I can make a few suggestions to help you with your choices:
Firstly, get the army books (if you haven't already). That's pretty much the most important part. It will help you gauge a feel for the units you like.

Secondly, have you considered using your Mortal Slaanesh Champions as Daemonic Heralds?

Thirdly, look at the plastics available. You generally get more bang for your buck with the plastic bloodletters and daemonettes.

Lastly, have you considered how to base them? I've been toying with the idea of round bases and making movement trays out of wood with round slots drilled in them. That would cover the 'Round base-Square base' dilemma.

You're right about the daemon prince, there are just better options than him in 40k and fantasy. Although, if you already have a DP and have no intention of getting a soulgrinder, he can have a place in a 40k army.

Wish you well in your daemonic adventures ;)

deneg88
14-10-2008, 07:24
I agree with flinch in that the plastic models (daemonettes and bloodletters) are defiantely a must for this army. Ironically they are probably the best performing for both 40k and fantasy, as they perform the same role in both. Bloodletters are great for taking out anything with armour in both games, whilst daemonettes have lots of attacks to take care of hordes in both games. Skulltaker is great in both games, able to kill characters with ease.

Magic is the greatest problem, as in fantasy you will need some magic casters, even if just for protection. You might want to take some tzeentch heralds that you can add to your fantasy army, as you will almost always want more charcters in fantasy than in 40k.

Flamers are another unit thats has a defiante role in both fantasy and 40k, namely shooting lots, and a bloodthirster will add some tank hunting ability to a 40k list. Theres just so many differnt options too choose from, theres nothing that you cant find a use for in both armies. It will come down to personal preferences.

The biggest real problem is that units in 40k that are cheap are usually the models which are expensive in fantasy whilst cheap units in fantasy are expensive in 40k(i think so it's harder to use the same army in both fantasy and 40k, and so they can make more money...). Hope that helped a little

sephiroth87
14-10-2008, 16:28
I will be picking up both books this week. I really like the soulgrinder, but it doesn't fit into my constraints of the 2 armies theme.

So far, though, Bloodthirster seems to be a good choice in both fantasy and 40k. I could get away with more character models by using herald models as unit champions in 40k. Do the daemon troop units have a veteran sergeant equivalent?

Flamers seem to work well in both armies, too, it seems. I too have noticed that they powered up different units in 40k than they did in the fantasy army. That's why it seems like an interesting challenge to me.

The bloodletters and daemonettes really are good deals. But in fantasy, the plaguebearers are pretty tough, but a lot more expensive moneywise. I might run bloodletters just to save money...

I think heralds are 2 for one slots in 40k. Do I have to run two of the same god in a slot?

As for movement trays, gale force 9 sells daemon movement trays just for this purpose:

http://www.gf9.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=103

Roughly, I guess I could run in 40k

Bloodthirster
Flesh Hounds
2 units of 10 Bloodletters
2 units of 10 Plaguebearers
Either Skulltaker or a couple of heralds
Flamers

It would work out to one block of both plaguebearers and bloodletters in fantasy. Does the fantasy daemon army really need magic users for defense, or do they have another option (like dwarves dispel dice or a banner or something)?


I will have to check out the books further to see what synergy I can find between the two lists.

Gazak Blacktoof
14-10-2008, 16:47
Ideally you want tzeentch characters for magic defence. The only way to get a dispel scroll equivalent is a tzeentch only gift. Both nurgle and slaanesh herlads can be level 1 but khornate units and characters can only get magic resistance as far as I know so they wont add to your dispel pool.

w3rm
15-10-2008, 23:42
if yor talking about bases use magnets. glue the daemon onto a peice of metal and paint it to look like somethin. then simply get that magnet tape and put a little bit on both kinds of bases they should stick pretty well

SolarHammer
16-10-2008, 03:58
Design the army you want for 40k.

Whatever you end up with will be a good army in fantasy because it's impossible to make a bad Daemon army, even if it's 500 points short of an actual army.

sephiroth87
16-10-2008, 04:46
Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking, too. Most of the players at my local store rank the 40k daemons around the bottom unless you're maxing out on the monstrous creatures. The fantasy one just hums right along with just about any unit you take.

SolarHammer
16-10-2008, 07:12
Well I was being a little facetious, but it's very charitable of you to pick out the grain of truth that I carefully molded into my pearl of snark.

Don't ask where I grow my snark pearls.

Seth the Dark
16-10-2008, 07:34
Yea the 40k demons are as underpowered as the Fantasy demons are powerful (although this is just my experience, so I'm sorry if I offend anyone). As for 40k, lots of Tzeentch units equals very shooty and good for a first wave while Nurgle is also good for a first wave due to their resilience. I would choose Khorne over Slaanesh in 40k due to a higher toughness and much more choppy aspect.

Lordsaradain
16-10-2008, 09:00
Definetly get flamers. They are awesome in both systems!