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BigbyWolf
13-10-2008, 20:15
Was having a quick flick through my Wood Elf book looking to come up with something I'd never tried before that'd be a little bit different and came up with the idea of 3 Alter Nobles working together in a with a unit of cavalry to back them up.

I was thinking of having them kitted out like this:

Noble 1- Oaken Armour (4+Regenerate) and Great Weapon
Noble 2- Helm of the Hunt (6+save and +1A/WS on the charge) and Stone of Rebirth (2+ward when down to 1 wound), Great Weapon
Noble 3-Mantle(Light Armour, gives 4+ward when within 6" of a wood) Great Weapon

Between them these guys can deal out 12 S6 attacks (13 on the charge...) so the plan would be to charge them into the front of a unit whilst flanking said unit with enough cav/warhawks etc to negate ranks.

The magic for this army would come in the form of a Spellweaver.

Any thoughts on how this may work?

Any thoughts?

Lennart.nevanoja
13-10-2008, 22:05
hey,

I think it is funny to see but i do think that is too much flying circus for me. if you have flaming attacks as you have ageinst wood elf's you lose one right away and not to speak about killing blow gonna make you have cry tears of blood when it works like black knights. I say try it but beware of you're opponents army


Cheers

Lord Malorne
13-10-2008, 22:16
Very interesting, if positioned right can be devastating, I see a vampire counts army having a big struggle with this, on the spellweaver you should give her/him a wand of wytch elm allowing him/her to re-roll all dispell attempts and one scroll for those danger spells.

Lord Dan
13-10-2008, 23:19
Rumored new Nurgle WoC spell:

15+ Detsroy enemy unit with no saves allowed

If this is true eggs in one basket, points denial, and similar tactics simply aren't viable anymore.

Finally.

theunwantedbeing
13-10-2008, 23:28
Thats a tzeentch spel Lord Dan, it does exist.
It's quite as simple as "destroy enemy unit" though.

1 spell wont ruin the eggs all in 1 basket tactic at all.

The setup for the alter's seems perfectly reasonable.

Lord Dan
13-10-2008, 23:34
I believe one spell will, actually. If you plan on taking such a list to a tournament, you should probably assume you'll go up against an army with superior magic capable of making your 1200 point unit simply dissapear.

Assuming that, you might want to spread things out a bit.

Reinnon
14-10-2008, 10:28
One spell, thats cast on a 15+, requires that you then roll a 11 or 12 on 2d6 to then destroy the said unit.

Plus, you need to actually roll the spell, and somehow get it through the magic defense (that spell has scroll written all over it) - corpse carts and banner of sundering in particular make the spell difficult to cast.

Hardly a spell to change the entire nature of armies at tournies - it can do it, but its unlikely to do it.

DeathlessDraich
14-10-2008, 10:40
Interesting idea. About 520 pts? on 3 superspeed heroes does seem to be good but there are drawbacks:

1) Frail general

2) All 3 will be horribly exposed after the first charge and combat (presumably successful). An obvious tactic would be to push a sacrificial unit into the faces of the 3 Nobles. An offer they cannot refuse since they want to get into combat. They would be exposed whether they overrun or not.
This means the 3 Nobs would have to spend a valuable turn or 2 manoeuvring and hiding to get into a chosen combat.
But after winning this - they are exposed!

3) Problems dealing with: Daemons (will tarpit them easily); Heavy offensive magic e.g. Slann etc; Heavy shooting or unavaoidable shooting e.g. Skryre (shoot followed by stand and shoot would probably destroy 2 Nobles).

VC - could work with the right tactics and (Nobles) passing all Fear tests.
Other armies - will probably work very well.

I would be interested to see the outcome in a few games so do keep us informed.

BigbyWolf
14-10-2008, 10:44
:confused: Don't know where you got 1200 point unit from- the Alters are technically 3 separate units , each worth approx. 150 points.

With regards to Black Knights etc, thats the beauty of having a 9" move- should be able to pick the targets I want.

And I never said it was a viable tournament army, just something to have a bit of fun with...

I'll probably be trying them out later today, so i'll get back to you on how they went. As for the frailness of the general...they're Wood Elves! They're all frail! ;-)

Quick query, how would an opponent go about allocating attacks from a single large model, say Greater Daemon of the like? Can he be able to kill more than one per CC phase?

Lord Malorne
14-10-2008, 11:02
IIRC he would have to split attacks.

Chicago Slim
14-10-2008, 11:31
Was having a quick flick through my Wood Elf book looking to come up with something I'd never tried before that'd be a little bit different and came up with the idea of 3 Alter Nobles

I've seen it done (or, more specifically, I had it done to me) in a tournament, two and a half years ago. It was pretty brutal, and worked quite well. As with most Wood Elf tactics, it depends significantly on taking advantage of opportunities as they present themselves, rather than trying to force a particular target to fall into your trap.

Of course, with 18" charges, these guys can reach across the board and take advantage of opportunities, pretty effectively. The baseline plan of flanking with the fast cav is, of course, a good one, but your "decision tree" should be pretty deep, and you should be ready to vary that plan as the situation dictates (because, really, 13 attacks at WS 6-7 and S 6 will hurt a lot of stuff, badly enough to break it, even without the flankers...)

BigbyWolf
14-10-2008, 14:31
Ok, basic list for the game is:

Spellweaver- Lev 4, Wand of Wych Elm, Dispel Scroll(possibly also the Heartstone- 1 use reroll of spell/dispel)- 330
Alter Noble 1- Oaken Armour and Great Weapon- 154
Alter Noble 2- Helm of the Hunt, Stone of Rebirth , Great Weapon, Light Armour- 156
Alter Noble 3-Mantle, Great Weapon- 154

6 Glade Riders- Full Comm- 178 (to flank with Alters)
15 Glade Guard- Champ, Mus- 192 (Spellweaver goes here)

8 Dryads- 96
8 Dryads- 96

3 Treekin- 195
3 Treekin or 10 Wardancers- call it 195 for the time being

That leaves me with around 250 points, was thinking about 2 Great Eagles and some scouts, or maybe drop something and get a treeman in there...

Not much of the troops are set yet, was wondering if I should get more archers in there, or put the Spellweaver on a steed in a unit of Glade Riders so he can keep up with the advancing troops to help out with his spells.

Any suggestions?

DeathlessDraich
15-10-2008, 08:22
I would prefer a Treeman and Wardancers anytime and if there are points to spare - a unit of 8 Wardancers and more units of 8 Dryads.
4 units of 8 Dryads and 2 units of 8 Wardancers plus a Treeman could easily fit into the list.

BigbyWolf
15-10-2008, 10:08
"I would prefer a Treeman and Wardancers anytime and if there are points to spare - a unit of 8 Wardancers and more units of 8 Dryads.
4 units of 8 Dryads and 2 units of 8 Wardancers plus a Treeman could easily fit into the list."

Are we talking about dropping the Treekin altogether here to achieve this? I do love 'em ,but I suppose I could give it a shot...don't think I've played a game without 'em yet.

LION
15-10-2008, 11:08
;) Your Alter Posse sounds interesting.....only concern I have is that while giving all 3 Great Weapons is very aggressive, what happens if they are held to a 2nd round of combat or face ASF models? If you do run those three Alters as a group, I would give one the Amber Pendant and even consider replacing that Alters Gweapon with R Wildfire Blades (Alter would be I9 always strikes first with 5 flaming S4 attacks) LION

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BigbyWolf
15-10-2008, 12:32
;) Your Alter Posse sounds interesting.....only concern I have is that while giving all 3 Great Weapons is very aggressive, what happens if they are held to a 2nd round of combat or face ASF models? If you do run those three Alters as a group, I would give one the Amber Pendant and even consider replacing that Alters Gweapon with R Wildfire Blades (Alter would be I9 always strikes first with 5 flaming S4 attacks) LION

I've thought about giving the Nobles magic weapons...another possibility is to give the one with Helm of the Hunt the Spear of Twilight, 5 Killing blow attacks on the charge is also quite tempting, particularly if they come up against some knights...

The pendant is also quite useful, but I'm more worried about the odd spell getting through, so for the time being I'd prefer to stick with ward saves and regeneration. Also no-one at the club is running High Elves at the moment, so I'm not too worried about the ASF, but it's a good idea overall so I'll give it some thought...

DeathlessDraich
16-10-2008, 09:03
"I would prefer a Treeman and Wardancers anytime and if there are points to spare - a unit of 8 Wardancers and more units of 8 Dryads.
4 units of 8 Dryads and 2 units of 8 Wardancers plus a Treeman could easily fit into the list."

Are we talking about dropping the Treekin altogether here to achieve this? I do love 'em ,but I suppose I could give it a shot...don't think I've played a game without 'em yet.

Yes, drop 1 unit of Treekin to fit that in - well most of it :p

GW is fine if you choose the right combat but there won't be many. Alternatively 2 HW with Helm of Hunt for 1 Noble; with GW for the other 2 is also a viable alternative.

The Red Scourge
16-10-2008, 11:13
I'd dump the Wand of Wych Elm for two dispel scrolls (re-rolling 4 dice won't do you much good).

And I'd trade the Stone of Rebirth for a Hail of Doom Arrow (NEVER leave home without it), and the Mantle for the Stone of Crystal Mere. Possibly trade the armor for the Amaranthine brooch + perhaps the Briarsheath.

Glade Riders for 6 Wild Riders and Warbanner (best WE unit in the game).

Dump the treekin for a treeman and use the specials for Wild Riders and Wardancers possibly a unit of Warhawks for mage hunting.


--

Beware of Fear and Terror tests. They can really mess with your combined Alter charges.
Personally I'd cut an Alter and spend the 150 on an extra unit :)

BigbyWolf
17-10-2008, 14:03
Ok, list was updated as so and game was played yesterday...

Spellweaver- Lev 4, Wand of Wych Elm, Dispel Scroll(possibly also the Heartstone- 1 use reroll of spell/dispel)- 330
Alter Noble 1- Oaken Armour and Great Weapon- 154
Alter Noble 2- Helm of the Hunt, Stone of Rebirth , Great Weapon, Light Armour- 156
Alter Noble 3-Mantle, Great Weapon- 154

15 Glade Guard- Champ, Mus- 192 (Spellweaver goes here)

8 Dryads- 96
8 Dryads- 96
8 Dryads- 96

10 Wardancers- Full Comm- 201
6 Wild Riders- Full Comm, War Banner
Tree Man

Game was against a Nurgle Cow Army (Doombull led minos)

He took a lot of units of 4 Minos with mark of Nurgle, Doombull with the same and the great weapon that heal wounds, and a Exalted Daemon (level 2 Wiz, lore of Nurgle)...oh, and a unit of 3 Dragon Ogres...

Game went well...possibly due to his lack of shooting and much magic, Alters and Wildriders took left flank, mincing their way through a unit of Minos despite one of the Nobles failing his fear test to end up behind his lines.

Treeman and Wardancers moved up the other flank and came up against Dragon Ogres and Daemon, Wardancers used 4+ward dance and suffered 2 wounds, but managed to cause 4 in return, while the Treeman whoomped the Daemon with ease...won combat but the Dragon Ogres held.

One unit of Dryads was engaged and destroyed by Doombull and his unit, causing panic in another unit, who broke and ran, but rallied the next turn. I broke the Dragon Ogres on the second round, and thanks to a bit of magic moved the treeman up behind his troops, other unit of dryads was involved in a pretty ineffectual combat with one unit of minos (winning respective rounds, passing break tests) and the archers managed to cause a few wounds durnnig the course of the game. Turning point came when the rallied dryads charged his Doombulls unit, who were then rear charged by the Nobles, while the Treesung Treeman crashed into his last unit of unengaged Minos and the Wild Riders took 'em from behind.

My Noble with the Stone of Rebirth took up the challenge of his Doombull, and they each caused 2 wounds (saving the last one with his 2+ ward) while the other nobles and dryads carved through the minotaurs and the Treeman and friends beat the other unit. Doombull failed his break test, ran, and was run down, while the other minos rolled double 1s...but that didn't save them from being wiped out on the last turn.

All in all it worked well against that army, although shooting armies will probably cause more of a problem...