PDA

View Full Version : IG no fun anymore, just when i start winning!



Pyriel
14-10-2008, 13:59
Seriously.
I remember myself building an IG army in 4th, trying to make it work in a bad-for-the-army ruleset, busting my head for new tactics for huge ammounts of time.And just when in 5th edition i start doing good with IG, just when i know what tactics to use with IG and i just play instead of trying to find solutions, i realise it's not fun anymore.
I have yet to lose a 5th ed game with IG(lots of ties, though, 60% ties/40% wins). I don't think i am a very good player, i lose sometimes when controlling my BT or other armies. But when it comes to just playing IG (without the mental challenge of making them work), i am just bored. I just don't like how the army plays.What to do?

I am reluctant to sell them because i like to have a non-MEQ army that is more of a shooty nature, not "just Black Templars".However, i do like the occasional badass IC and different units. IG are just guardsmen & tanks with some Ld-giving dudes.And yes, tried stormies, they feel as guardsmen as anyone.

Pyriel
14-10-2008, 14:08
Thinking of starting a different army, but there is a wall:
a)Space Marines:too MEQ.
b)Chaos Daemons: possible, but don't like most models, only like 3 of them ( 3 khorne units, basically, bloodletters, mounted bloodletters and khorne greater daemon)
c)Dark Eldar: not sure.I don't like very few models but kinda like the playstyle . Dunno if they can ever work though.
d)Chaos Space Marines:perhaps if they weren't so... MEQ...I am satisfied with BT on the MEQ separtment.
e) Eldar: 2 of my friends play them, could easilly get bland.
f) Tau: ICs that keep running away from enemy troops? why not stay IG?
g)Inquisition:too much...MEQ... both SoB and GK...
h)DA, BA and the like: you get it... don't want more MEQ!
i)orks:NO WAY. worst models evah imho(subjective, i know)

IJW
14-10-2008, 14:10
i) Orks. ;)

SPYDER68
14-10-2008, 14:26
Orks are actually a pretty fun / fast looking army, from a ork mob to truck swarm.

and the models look pretty good :P along with getting plastic grots, stormboys and a battlewagon around december

Jwolf
14-10-2008, 14:38
If you mostly play IG against Eldar, I can see how that would get boring. Eldar are the paper to the IG scissors - fragile units that are good at killing tough enemies are ideal for us to slaughter.

If you want something completely different, consider Tyranids or Necrons. Neither does a lot of running, and they are both utterly different from an IG playstyle.

Inq. Veltane
14-10-2008, 15:05
Put them on the shelf for a few months. When the new Codex comes out start using them again, or maybe before that if you really feel the urge. If you sell them you'll only regret it later.

You have other armies. Use them. Or start a new one as well.

Firstborn
14-10-2008, 15:20
You've obviously never played WH if you consider them to be MEQ. :p Not only are they far less survivable, but they have a completely different play style to Marines. Although the new book has added Sternguard in an effort to emulate basic Battle Sisters! I doubt that was the intention though. :p I would advise anybody looking for a new army to start Sisters of Battle, as they are an incredibly fun army to play. They hit far harder than Marines, and are only slightly more survivable than Storm Troopers.

Luisjoey
14-10-2008, 15:27
play nids simplyu

Meriwether
14-10-2008, 15:35
c)Dark Eldar: not sure.I don't like very few models but kinda like the playstyle . Dunno if they can ever work though.

I play Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Marines, CSM (Emperor's Children), Daemons, and am building Guard...

I don't believe that Dark Eldar are actually *beatable* (barring weird dice), if built and used right. I don't play them much, mostly because I've only ever lost two games with them (out of several hundred), and one of those (vs. Xothos) was decided on a coin toss because it was too close to call and we were running out of time.

I have brought progressively goofy (but still reasonably competitive) lists over time, just to see what's what... and they overperform for their points across the board.

The models suck -- I got mine on the cheap right when they were brand new (an LGS was going out of business, and had a BOGO sale -- not counting their 25% discount, plus some store credit I had...), which is the only reason I have them. (I like Incubi, Lelith, and the Raiders. The rest are at best 'meh' and generally sub-'meh'.)

...but can they 'work'? Abso-frikkin'-lutely. They've been ramped back a bit in 5th edition, but they're still tremendously effective.

Meri

Hicks
14-10-2008, 15:53
One more vote for nids. I picked them up to have a break from my IG and let me tell you that they are much different. Also, if you concentrate on big bugs, the army almost paints itself, because they are so fun to do.

leo_neil316
14-10-2008, 15:56
Congratulations! You have reached the plateau!

Yes you've reached the point where you have your army down. You know how your guard work backwards, given a situation you can take those boys and find a -solution-.

So what to do now, well theres always other armies. Buuuuuuuuuuuuut.

You play guard. So why bother with those losers?

See those doctrines in the back of the codex? Take a good long look at them all. Now pick five. And I don't mean the ones that end up in every list (I mean you can still take 'em, but don't only take 'em). Pick the ones that sound coolest, pick the -crazy- ones no one ever takes.

Then kick back and think to yourself, out of all the millions of myriad worlds out there, which ones -yours-. Make it up, give it a backstory, give it some raison d'etre, give it some -flair- that makes it uniquely yours. Figure out why these guardsmen would do things this way. Give your commanders names and work out where the regiments been, what enemies it's faced and what urgent need brought it into existance.

And then make them, suddenly instead of another 'platoon platoon platoon russ russ russ command squad commisar psuedo-cadian army'* you have (pour example).

The Merleian 137th feral-worlders. A regiment from a world in ultima segmentum that was captured by the tau. The brave locals fought back as best they could against these strange monsters, adopting guerrilla tactics, crude firearms and the brutality of close quarters combat, their only thoughts of keeping their world pure for Imperitor. The god they worship without truly understanding why.

After years of desperate loosing battles and victorious ambushes things settle into a stalemate. The Tau being unable to pacify the brutal locals and the locals simply unable to drive the more advanced Tau from their world. Just as desperation truly sets into their people, with some few traitors even denying the existence of Imperator and espousing collaboration with the Tau Imperators angels of death arrived on wings of fire to save his people.

With the aid of these superhuman warriors, messengers of god himself the fight turned, fanatical frenzy settling into the feral troops as they finally began to gain ground against the Tau.

Soon after others came to aid them and the primitive men learned something new. As the thump and tread and stamp and growl of the imperial guard war machine hit planet side their true purpose was revealed to them.

All the stars in the sky belonged to mankind. But it was to mankind that their defence was left, and only in the direst of times did his angels ride to war to save those who could not save themselves.

And once the monsters were driven from their world buy lasgun and bayonet the people of the planet Merle knew their task. To join the ranks of the imperial guard and take their place amoungst the defenders of mankind. And they were given weapons and armour to do this task, and set against the blue monsters that had invaded their world. Using the expertise at exploiting the Tau's weaknesses through ambush and assault as best they could.

Doctrines: Hardened fighters, warrior weapons, light infantry, rough riders, iron discipline.

(incidently, this one's mine, I really need to finish converting it sometime).

One codex. A million different armies!

*(although theres nothing wrong with that, aslong as you got to it by following the steps above and not by asking for list advice online and that sorta thing).

jason_sation
14-10-2008, 21:48
Maybe try a Last Chancer's army made up of some of your models?

Johnny Bravo
15-10-2008, 00:36
c)Dark Eldar: not sure.I don't like very few models but kinda like the playstyle . Dunno if they can ever work though.

Dark Eldar are due for a revamp, I keep hearing. Rather soon, from the impression I'm getting from the Rumors forum.

Devil Tree
15-10-2008, 01:02
My advice to you, is never sell your army. It may seem boring now, but that always happens. Just set them down for a while and start something new. You’ll eventually get tired of that and pick up your IG again.

I myself have regularly hopped between my IG, Orks and Fantasy armies. Right now I’m working on a “counts as” Hrud army using the Demons codex

IG are also slated to get a new codex in about 6 months, so you don’t have to wait long for something new.

Havock
15-10-2008, 01:07
for a challenge: Radical DH.

Can also be deployed next to your IG as allies, so you can switch around with that a little.

djinn8
15-10-2008, 01:18
Like Leo_neil said, try some bizzare doctrines out. How about Warrior Weapons, Carapace, Light Infantr, Die hards and Sanctioned Psykers. Model the army around a medievil style world with wizards and pistol totting knights and you'll have your self a challenge beyond that of Cadian Equivalent army.

Hellfury
15-10-2008, 01:21
Why not use your IG models with... a different codex?

As long as everything is repped well, I wouldn't have a problem if you were to use your IG models with an ork codex for instance.

devik
15-10-2008, 01:56
Maybe try a Last Chancer's army made up of some of your models?

Last Chancers were even cooler in the 3rd ed 'dex where they all had different profiles... more character then, imo.

Codsticker
15-10-2008, 02:36
a)Space Marines:too MEQ.


Really???;)

If you are looking for a complete change of direction I would go Eldar.

Firaxin
15-10-2008, 04:17
Doctrines are your answer.

Making a guard list and then winning over and over with it doesn't mean you have mastered the guard codex. In fact you've barely mastered mebbe 1/20 of it.

When I started guard, it was because I was a treadhead, and my friend showed me pictures of the IG in WD and explained how they were the 'tank' army. So I created a mechanized force.

To my dismay, this quickly grew boring; a dozen chimeras blitzing from cover to cover, dishing out 9 or more shots a turn, stripped down sentinels forming mobile LOS blockers for enemy AT units, Hellhounds and Demolishers smashing the hell out of anything trying to hold an objective before a chimera showed up to deploy my own objective holders, etc, simply was too much for my gaming group's las/plas marine armies and railcannon heavy tau lists, apparently.

So then (taking the idea from those damned JSJ tau...) I built a force based around never seeing the enemy. Basilisks. Griffons. Mortars in every squad. It was pretty impressive. I once layed down enough templates to entirely wipe out an ork horde army (2,000pts) in 1 turn before my opponent could even move. The pinning effects may seem trivial (so many units ignore it or pass it easily) but believe me it adds up, and the enemy ends up halting in their tracks half way across the board.

Bored again (this time for both me and my opponents). My army was way too disconnected from the actual fight. So I decided I wanted to try getting as close as possible. Drop troops. Flamer and melta spam. Deep striking platoons in circles around individual tactical squads, wiping the enemy out piecemeal. Frustration set in, because yet again my opponents were hardly shooting back before being wiped out, but I was taking heavier losses due to DS mishaps and the randomness of when each squad/platoon comes on.

I tried Napoleon and trench style warfare, advancing legions of leadership-enhanced, carapace armored men across the field in formation while heavy weapons platoons held my deployment zone and blasted breaches for me to advance through. The carapace armor bested boltguns’ and pulse rifles’ AP5 (if you haven’t guessed yet tau and space marines are my most common opponents), while their heavier stuff was too concentrated on my entrenched heavy weapons to do anything useful.

Had a brief ‘the worst of the codex’ phase, just to show I could (or perhaps to try and give my friends a sporting chance). 5 Priests, loaded up with carapace armor, storm bolters or plasma pistols, master crafted force weapons, ‘nades, one with the honorifica imperialis, etc. Plus 30 ogryns. Sentinels, and meltabomb/powerfist hefting command squads provided anti-tank. Stopped playing after a cheap psyker killed a chapter master with his force weapon one too many times. You’d be surprised what great distractions Ogryn make.

Conscript hordes (with ld buffs). Ended up outnumbered even tyranids and orks. A ***** to move around the table top, and too many bodies to kill.

I observed a phenomenon with my tyranids where I would maximize the potential of a squad by always loading it out with one specific goal in mind. No beasties good at CC and Shooting, just one or the other. So I tried to do the opposite with my guard (and having just done conscript hordes, I used MSU at the same time). Six man veteran squads with 1 missile launcher, 1 storm bolter and power sword/fist sergeant, 1 flamer, 1 melta, and 1 plasma rifle, for example. Not surprisingly any individual squad against any individual enemy squad was typically outmatched, but I was shocked at the tactical depth I was suddenly able to pull off, with every unit being able to deal with every threat—as long as I concentrated fire, I continued to win.

And so on. I’ve gone through countless different army lists, cycling through any and all of the above on a regular basis, though I come back to mechanized the most often.

Recently, I’ve been running a CC oriented guard army. Warrior Weapons, Rough Riders, Hardened Fighters, Light Infantry, etc. It’s fun because it’s the last thing your opponent expects to see when he learns you play guard. Haven’t tried it in 5th ed yet, but I’m hoping the new infiltration rules will only make it even better.

So go on. Give the other IG variant lists a try! They’re pretty radically different from eachother.

vladsimpaler
15-10-2008, 04:23
When I got bored with my IG army, I turned them renegade and started to use the Lost and the Damned PDF.

Now, I dare you to tell me that huge squads of mutants aren't fun! :D

Pyriel
15-10-2008, 07:27
Basic problem with doctrines is, they still can't seem to make a difference in the ICs...
anyways, i thought i'd try this until new DE come out(looong time):
I will build the 40k equivalent of Easy Company from 101st airbourne!(band of brothers, real story).
And i mean with the characters as ICs:
first thoughts:
a)Doctrines:
Drop Troops(obviously)
Veterans(obviously, this guys took a serious beating in Bastogne, which will now be a formerly chaos-conquered planet)

special characters:
1st Lieutenant Dike
-this guy will be a bland loser-like Junior Officer(he was some crappy commander appointed when Winters became a Major).
Major Richard Winters, True Leader
-this guy will be an upgrade for the command squad, a veteran with honorifica.He will grant all the officers the Iron Discipline Doctrine.all this will be in his points cost, of course.
Captain Ronal Speirs, Born Killer
-this guy took command from Dike in the battlefield when Dike finally failed utterly. the Germans and his soldiers feared him, and he single-handedly assaulted enemy positions more than once, surviving unscathed.He will be a commissar giving the command squad the "hardened fighters" doctrine.

more details soon!

primarchvulken
15-10-2008, 07:57
the IG are great for theming or having a specific force

TheBedla
15-10-2008, 08:30
Doctrines are your answer....
wow, Firaxin, a wonderful article exploring different possibilities of the Guard. Thanks, a joy to read!

WarpWhisperer
15-10-2008, 09:14
Seriously.
I have yet to lose a 5th ed game with IG(lots of ties, though, 60% ties/40% wins).

For an extra challenge, maybe turn up with your guard, and then swap armies with your opponent? Maybe trying to find a way to beat such a good army is what you need? ;)

Morgal
15-10-2008, 15:47
Um, why not try grey knights...or sisters.

grab a squad and toss em into your current list and you have your tough caracters you want.

Firaxin
15-10-2008, 17:34
wow, Firaxin, a wonderful article exploring different possibilities of the Guard. Thanks, a joy to read!

Haha, thanks, though it wasn't really an article, and there are tons more ways to play guard than that. I didn't even mention my Armored Company, or my Sentinel Recon force, or my Sniper gunline, or my Valkyrie aircav, etc...

Hicks
15-10-2008, 20:16
Um, why not try grey knights...or sisters.

grab a squad and toss em into your current list and you have your tough caracters you want.

Ooooooh yeah, one of the best move I ever did was to had Grey Knights to my guards. I loved them so much they eventually became their own full fledged army. You just can't go wrong with a squad of terminators. They add much needed mobile shooting that is reliable and they make your ennemy think twice about charging deep into your lines. Oh and they look SWEET!

WarpWhisperer
16-10-2008, 06:57
Oh and they look SWEAT!

Sounds like they really do need to purge the unclean! :p

Frostea
16-10-2008, 08:50
for a challenge: Radical DH.

Can also be deployed next to your IG as allies, so you can switch around with that a little.

I'll salute you if you do that successfully :D

But you could simply try using GK terminators as allies; they can be quite useful as deep strikers on games of more than 2k points. Or do it the other way round, WH/DH and inducted IG that you already have.