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Icewalker
15-11-2005, 22:07
I was curious, how would one go about making a kill team based around a black ops team (using the IG rules). For those of you who don't know what Black Ops are, here is the defination from Wikipedia:

A black op is a covert operation. In this context, "black" is a term used in political, military, intelligence, and business circles to refer to activities that are either secret, or of questionable ethics or legality.
This type of operation is normally used by various secret services to achieve some goals while trying to operate secretly (so the connection between "black operations" and secret agents or even the country of their origin cannot be found).
The methods used in black operations are also named unconventional warfare and include some terrorist-style actions like assassinations, sabotages, supporting of resistance movements, etc.

So, anyone have any ideas? I get the feeling that this kill team will break lots of rules.

starlight
15-11-2005, 22:11
Hardened Vets all the way. Possibly an Assassin.

Icewalker
15-11-2005, 22:15
Hardened Vets all the way. Possibly an Assassin.
An assassin? I can't take an assassin in kill team (well, I could, but lots of points to the enemy).

d4m0s4n
15-11-2005, 22:26
Hardened Vets. Just call them Assassins.

Dark clothing and an attitude are all you need. ;)

Icewalker
15-11-2005, 22:32
Hardened Vets. Just call them Assassins.

Dark clothing and an attitude are all you need. ;)
What about weapons? Skills? Doctrines? The whole nine yards please.

Ramon
15-11-2005, 22:35
well actually, one or two assasins will do great as a KT...

starlight
15-11-2005, 22:37
Hey! We're not doing your work for you!

Check out the HVs list and come back with some ideas, don't expect us to write the list for you. :p


I can't take an assassin in kill team

Nonsense, that's the beauty of Kill Team. You can do just about anything, but you pay a penalty and you know it up front.:D

sigur
15-11-2005, 22:38
Ah, a group of organized criminals. Uhm...why not stormtroopers?

starlight
15-11-2005, 22:40
HVs have much better options than Storm Troopers. :D

Asi the Red
15-11-2005, 22:42
Hey ya'.

Not very familiar with KT, or with the IG for that matter.

But could you just take a bunch o' Ratlings with Sniper Rifles? That would seem like a very good assassination squad to me. Good range, causes pinning, etc.

starlight
15-11-2005, 22:45
Assassination, yes. Everything else, no.

Kill Team is basically 40K in 40Min or 400pts with some special rules (it's in the rulebook with Combat Patrol).

You generally need a mix of capabilities.

Icewalker
15-11-2005, 22:46
Hey ya'.

Not very familiar with KT, or with the IG for that matter.

But could you just take a bunch o' Ratlings with Sniper Rifles? That would seem like a very good assassination squad to me. Good range, causes pinning, etc.
Ratlings are too weak to take en masse and cost to much. Maybe one or two at max. I would take Storm Troopers, but not as versatile as HV. I'll make up a list in a couple of minutes.

Ramon
15-11-2005, 22:47
yep, you can field almost any thing on the codex, and ratlings will look nice... on second tought... squats! since the imperiun denies their existence... tehy can use them as the perfect black ops unit...

on third tought... KT "ARE" black ops units... so you may use whatever you want...

Icewalker
15-11-2005, 22:51
yep, you can field almost any thing on the codex, and ratlings will look nice... on second tought... squats! since the imperiun denies their existence... tehy can use them as the perfect black ops unit...

on third tought... KT "ARE" black ops units... so you may use whatever you want...
Silly me. That they are. I just don't know what exactly to use though. Hehe. Foolish foolish me.

Hlokk
15-11-2005, 23:02
Hardened Vets, try something like:

8 hardened vets, sargent with power weapon, 2 models with plasma guns, a model with a heavy bolter and another with a sniper rifle.

Plasma guns represent decent high-tech stuff the vets get, heavy bolter could be like an M60 or something

ratatosk
15-11-2005, 23:13
For the range of activities a couple of vet squads really tooled up should do the trick and be versatile enough for what you want,

As for doctrines Cameoline, light inf, veterans, Die hards, Hardened fighters and sharpshooters are all good considerations.

Icewalker
16-11-2005, 00:16
For the range of activities a couple of vet squads really tooled up should do the trick and be versatile enough for what you want,

As for doctrines Cameoline, light inf, veterans, Die hards, Hardened fighters and sharpshooters are all good considerations.
I'll definatly take hardened fighters. On Vets, don't know and the light infantry I'm not so sure of either.

NorthernMike
16-11-2005, 00:28
I take Last chancers for my Kill Teams. I break the rules only in that i don't include Shaeffer or Cage. The coolest thing about the last chancer's is that you can legally break the unit up into smaller units. I like to take a lone sniper, a lone hand to hand specialist w/ powerweapon, and then the core unit of main guys with a special weapon of our choise (don't forget the demo charge!). That way I have 3 separate units and it is all legal. And makes for a lot of fun. Deploying the sniper in an off and remote area with good line of site is a riot, as your opponent will not want to send guys after him, but may be forced to. I found this as the best way to get the most "black ops" like KT.

Remember, every single last chancer can have something from the armoury/wargear, hahaha

starlight
16-11-2005, 00:40
Last Chancers ROCK. Currently building an Army, but hadn't thought of a KT. Good call.:D

Icewalker
16-11-2005, 01:07
I take Last chancers for my Kill Teams. I break the rules only in that i don't include Shaeffer or Cage. The coolest thing about the last chancer's is that you can legally break the unit up into smaller units. I like to take a lone sniper, a lone hand to hand specialist w/ powerweapon, and then the core unit of main guys with a special weapon of our choise (don't forget the demo charge!). That way I have 3 separate units and it is all legal. And makes for a lot of fun. Deploying the sniper in an off and remote area with good line of site is a riot, as your opponent will not want to send guys after him, but may be forced to. I found this as the best way to get the most "black ops" like KT.

Remember, every single last chancer can have something from the armoury/wargear, hahaha
Ooooo...:evilgrin: list building. Ah ha ha ha!!! I'm so evil. I will be hated by ALL!!! Mwu ha ha!! Hehehe. I'm evil. Last chancers. w00t! Thanks mate.

sulla
16-11-2005, 03:57
Once the plastic marines come out, I've got a plan to take the shotguns and make a hardened veteran squad that represents a 'veteran IST stormtrooper squad' for my ordo xenos inquisitor. I'll use the doctrines (and a little gren stuff and plasticard) to give them carapice and personalise every single one like my deathwatch kill team. Hardened veterans give the best options for making a kill-team.

starlight
16-11-2005, 04:19
Once the plastic marines come out,
Erm, I think you mean Plastic Marine *Scouts*.;)

ArtificerArmour
16-11-2005, 15:08
can you use sniper rifles in a kill team? the rules state no heavy weapons.

Adept
16-11-2005, 15:15
A few rules for IG kill teams.

1 - One model must be named Blain, and must wear a cowboy hat.

2 - One model must be bare-chested, and must be named Dutch.

3 - You must take at least one heavy bolter, and this heavy bolter must be named "Ole' Painless".

4 - The phrases 'Sexual Tyranosaurus' and 'If it bleeds, we can kill it' must be used at least once per game.

5 - One of your kill team members must go on to become the governor of California.

With regards to actual rules and sutch: I prefer to use Stormtroopers for my kill teams. The new Kasrkin models suit Stormies better, and look totally 'ard. Add in a few neat Cadian snipers (and yes, you can do this although I think it breaks two rules) and maybe a flamer or grenade launcher (or two) and away you go.

d4m0s4n
16-11-2005, 15:22
A few rules for IG kill teams.

True...so true.

A neutral shade of black.
16-11-2005, 15:29
Hardened Vets, try something like:

8 hardened vets, sargent with power weapon, 2 models with plasma guns, a model with a heavy bolter and another with a sniper rifle.

Plasma guns represent decent high-tech stuff the vets get, heavy bolter could be like an M60 or something

Breaking the immutable "only one heavy or template weapon," as well as the "no S7+ or more than two shots" one twice. Illegal list unless you have a nice opponent, and five extra brute squads and 55 points on his boss to him.

Ditch the heavy bolter, keep the sniper. Try to get them carapace armour (cut down on squad size as necessary). Ditch a plasma gun for a grenade launcher (which is not a template weapon - only weapons with the range 'template" are, which is flamers and...?) for added variety. Still leaves you with too little CC power, when CC is the life and blood of KT...

NorthernMike
17-11-2005, 00:26
My normal kill team of last chancers was this:

One lone sniper (only heavy weapon)

One lone HTH specialist (normally PW and BP)

Then the main core of 1 sgt/cpt w/ PW and BP
and 6 troopers w/ a mix of ccw and pistols, shotguns, and maybe even lasguns. I also normally have enough points left to decide whether i want another specialist with a PW/ or special weapon or just another trooper. (if i was feelin' lucky (and allowed too) i also sometimes took a demo charge for fun - seemed fluffy to!)

This way I believe i only break the one law about changing the squad requirements so i don't include shaeffer and cage.

Another really mean list is 7 last chancers all with PWs - very mean. Split them up as well. That allows for counter charges to help out if one squad gets tied up or charged first.
Even 5 with all PWs and carapase gives you still 20 pts to spend on 2 special weapons (remember last chancers can hold a PW and a special weapon!!!!)

A neutral shade of black.
17-11-2005, 12:09
This way I believe i only break the one law about changing the squad requirements so i don't include shaeffer and cage.

That and the one about having no S7+ weapons (demo charge is S10 and counts as a weapon for this purpose).


Split them up as well

Of course, since splitting up is a house rule... I play my KT as a skirmish derivative for the good guys, which makes a lot more sense.

NorthernMike
18-11-2005, 04:54
Well, ya the demo charge breaks another rule, but I don't normally use it. Just as I said, "if i was feelin' lucky".

Also, last chancers are allowed sub groups (up to 5) so that doesn't even require a "house rule" to play that way.

A neutral shade of black.
18-11-2005, 08:18
Also, last chancers are allowed sub groups (up to 5) so that doesn't even require a "house rule" to play that way.

That rule doesn't work in KT - the KT rules state that your team must form a single unit, and us such, they must form a single unit irrespective of whether or not they're normally allowed to split up (I'm aware of the rules for the Last Chancers). Since KT tournaments don't really abound, though, I think it's safe to use house rules (and play it like skirmish). ;)

Oh, yeah, another thing - Schaeffer and Kage both have more than a single wound, right? If that's so (my memory's hazy), then you can choose not to include them without breaking a rule, just like the Kroot carnivore team in the examples.

But anyway - taking "special character" type regiments (like the Last Chancers, or Whatshisname's ork kommandos - Snikrot, or something like that) are no fun. Much better to take some regular, customisable, good old regular codex entries.