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Malorian
16-10-2008, 16:38
Now I make sure all of my models are WYSIWYG as far as gear is concerned. If the model had a lance then it's a lance and so on.

During my game yesterday I was using an unpainted army and it came up that my opponent had been taken by surprise because when I charged my opponent didn't think there was a hero in the unit and thus didn't see the danger.

Now the hero was clearly modeled differently and had the gear it should have had, but the question was this: Should character models be painted differently to stand out?

I know some people do it for show and for their bosses to look better, but a far as WYSIWYG goes should they stand out?

At first I thought no as who can say what color they should be, but on the other hand realistically they wouldn't be dressed up exactly like the troops either.

Thoughts?

Atrahasis
16-10-2008, 16:50
He should have known when you deployed that the hero was separate, as characters are deployed separately after all other troops except scouts.

Braad
16-10-2008, 16:58
Yeah... a purple orc boss between the green ones...

Nah, there are limits to what you can do, and I agree with atrahasis that they are deployed seperetaly, so that should give a hint.
If they look a bit more heroic then the rest, it should be fine.

Griefbringer
16-10-2008, 17:05
Agreeing with Atharasis: during the deployment phase, the characters are deployed separately. Thus if the opponent pays any attention at this phase, he should be able to know how many characters there were and which of them went where.

Besides during the game, you can at any moment ask where each of the characters is, and the opponent should willing to answer this.

I haven't seen any sort of rules regarding modelling or painting of characters, but as a general guideline I would say that they should be recognizable. Making your characters looking extremely close to ordinary rank and file in order to confuse your opponent would definitely be bad manners.

However, requiring all characters to waltz around with the gaudiest colour schemes and back banners of epic proportions to ensure their recognizability would be rather over the top.

Gazak Blacktoof
16-10-2008, 19:16
I'd try to make characters as individual as possible just to avoid confusion but its not necessary. I've not seen it covered in a tactics article recently but previously I've seen people remark that they play on their opponent's psychology by painting models to blend with terrain or surrounding units, for example using more muted tones to make a unit look less threatening.

Malorian
16-10-2008, 19:21
I'd try to make characters as individual as possible just to avoid confusion but its not necessary. I've not seen it covered in a tactics article recently but previously I've seen people remark that they play on their opponent's psychology by painting models to blend with terrain or surrounding units, for example using more muted tones to make a unit look less threatening.

I'd heard of that one. Painting the infantry all bright and colorful and then have the knights/chariot/whatever supporting them in dull colors.

Sneaky ; )

Gazak Blacktoof
16-10-2008, 19:46
Yeah, I don't know how well it works but it doesn't take much to turn a game around normally. Forget about a chariot and you can quite easily have a flank collapse.

The only issue that might arrise is if you forget about your own dangerous units because they don't look important.

Crispian25
16-10-2008, 20:24
If he couldn't remember that you deployed him separately/correctly, then that's on him. For me, I love painting, so I have tons of 'character' models that are easy to distinguish from the average rank and file because I bought them out of a desire to paint them. When I play small games (warbands) where my army general is my Marauder Horseman Cheiftan, then it's on my opponent to remember that and not be shocked. If your model is WYSIWYG, then you are a step beyond many gamers and should be congratulated instead of forced to take another step of making your model garish or overly wrought.

SolarHammer
16-10-2008, 20:52
He should have known when you deployed that the hero was separate, as characters are deployed separately after all other troops except scouts.

Agreed. It shouldn't EVER be an issue if you deployed properly.

One of the worst thing that ever happened to me in a tournament is a Dark Elf player who deployed a Battle Standard Bearer with his unit of Cold One Knights during their deployment, while the unit had a huge and elaborate customized unit standard which totally obscured the BSB.

Imagine how pissed I was when he revealed his BSB, carrying the Banner of Murder (the old one that granted +d6" to charge moves) to make an otherwise impossible charge.

Bretonnian Lord
16-10-2008, 21:21
Whenever I deploy a character inside a unit, I make sure to make my opponent aware. "Okay, I am deploying my Knights of the Realm with Paladin here..."

BEEGfrog
17-10-2008, 01:34
As long as your character has no observable differences from R&F equipment then there is nothing in RAW that says he needs to be represented by an obviously observably different model. However, you should have a uncontestable marker attached to the character so you can demonstrate he is where you asserted he was.

This of course is gamesmanship rather than sportsmanship and could lose you respect and opponents.

Also, if the models aren't 100% WYSIWYG then you would have to mention that the character was a character when letting your opponent know about differences from WYSIWYG.

Drow__Warrior
17-10-2008, 01:48
Personally I feel, that if you can't keep track of 4 enemy characters on the tabletop, than you don't have the mental capacity to play warhammer in the first place.

Your figures are fine...

Luisjoey
17-10-2008, 16:00
At the start of the game or when you are about to charge and enemy you could ask visual things like how the hero looks to get an idea....

Heroes could be in the same color pattern as troops if applies to the army....

it is fun that empire uses this a lot! XD

EvC
17-10-2008, 17:19
You should let your opponent know what every model on the table is, if it's not 100% obvious. If you didn't tell him what model X was and it was not reasonable for him to infer it was, then that was potentially a little dishonest, I feel (But if it's the norm for you guys to just set up your characters without spilling the beans, then that's another matter). With characters, there's no real way to tell the difference between a hero-level and a lord-level character, so just do your best to be nice and clear when you deploy and you'll never have any problems.

And if you think that's bad Solarhammer, imagine how pissed I was when a Dark Elf opponent told me his Banner of Murder granted his Cold One Knights an additional 7" movement! Sent Malus Darkblade right into my Vampire Lord's unit of Knights. Damn dirty darkies...

Crispian25
17-10-2008, 19:02
When I set up my characters, I state what I'm placing (Lord with MoK on juggernaut joining unit X, BSB in a chariot, champion with Mark of _____). If you know which person the Character is, and you show it to the opponent, then you are fine. I've asked before for reminders, but otherwise it is on them. As a historical note, a general/leader was more picked out than the rank and file so they could be more easily found/followed, but if you are WYSIWYG, then I wouldn't stress it one bit.

Urgat
18-10-2008, 09:35
You should state where characters are. If I don't, people will get lost, as originally, I bought lots of metal gob heroes/lords to act as champions, but now that I'm not really taking champions anymore, they're just there to look cool.
Usually, it ain't complicated anyway: so that lone shaman is character 1, that second lone shaman is character 2, and that gob on wolf is char3. Not too dificult to follow I believe :p

Crazy Harborc
19-10-2008, 02:13
I expect and do the same.....to be told which character is the general, what each character is (hero, wizard etc). Opponents are entitled to be told what weapon(s) the characters have....NOT the magic part just the mundane...an axe, a sword etc.

WYSIWYG, I do try to do it. If and when a minie is not totally WYS...etc I do tell my opponents. I always have a roster to prove what was paid for (in points).;)

Lordsaradain
19-10-2008, 12:55
You should always point out which models are characters and what they are to your opponent during deployment.

theunwantedbeing
19-10-2008, 13:06
Yeah...when deploying your opponent will know which models are character's.
Although it's easy enough to lose track of them if they look pretty similar to the troops they are with (ie. they're all undercoated black).

So if an opponent asks you'll need to remind them where they are.
I've had to ask where the enemy general is countless times because I've simply forgotten where he was.

Ward.
19-10-2008, 13:12
I'd try to make characters as individual as possible just to avoid confusion but its not necessary. I've not seen it covered in a tactics article recently but previously I've seen people remark that they play on their opponent's psychology by painting models to blend with terrain or surrounding units, for example using more muted tones to make a unit look less threatening.

Anyone else thinking of a clear resin cast army?

kramplarv
19-10-2008, 14:10
we had this guy in our gaming group playing 40k...

he painted all his marines in extremely good camo to hide them in forests etc.
It was so successful that after a gems he painted them all red because he always forget about them and lost several games due to megacamo marines dong nothing but sitting around campfires singing old songs :D

Griefbringer
19-10-2008, 15:46
Anyone else thinking of a clear resin cast army?

This reminds me of certain pricy but small LotR model.

Perhaps a wood elf forest spirit army with a very naturalistic look could achieve quite a good level of blending on a well wooded table top.