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theunwantedbeing
16-10-2008, 21:33
An unbreakable character cannot join a unit that is not unbreakable itself.
Now..does this count when deploying?

If so...it certainly makes any "makes this unit unbreakable" banner somewhat limited in it's effects as the guy holding it is subject to the effects of the banner and as such, cannot join a unit to allow them to benefit from the banner...despite that seemingly being the point of the banner.

Silly I know.
This does lead to other questions based on what in game rules we follow while deploying, and which ones we totally ignore.

neXus6
16-10-2008, 21:48
That's kinda up there with silly crap like having a unit of say 15 graveguard + BSB with the double unit strength banner, you deploy them together...

Raising states that you may not raise a unit to beyond its starting unit strength, so that could be read as 32, 16 models x2...then the BSB leaves the unit turn1 and finds something else to do...the unit's starting unit strength was still 32 so carry on raising.

Technically you could argue it...in reality if someone did argue it most sensible people would just pack up and find another opponent.
:p

SolarHammer
16-10-2008, 22:45
I wouldn't say we totally ignore that rule because when you try and put the character in a unit, at no point is there an Unbreakable Character inside a non-Unbreakable unit.

The mere instant the character attempts to join the unit, you find that the unit itself is Unbreakable too, so there isn't a problem.

The Warrior Priest/Flagellant issue was FAQed differently because there, the Unbreakable ability was able to be removed (by simply dispelling the spell), leaving a non-Unbreakable character in a unit of Unbreakable troops, which would break the rules. There is no possibility of that happening in this case, because the instant the ability quits affecting either the unit or the character, it quits affecting them both (this is true whether the character dies, the item is nullified, the character refuses a challenge, etc.).

Gazak Blacktoof
16-10-2008, 22:55
The unbreakable question has been answered in your original post and also by SolarHammer.

I'm not sure what other rules you might feel need to be ignored as part of deployment but generally I feel that you should- ignore any rules that you* feel necessary to make the game work- that should hold true for every part of the game though. Interpret that broad statement anyway you want but in my opinion a bit of common sense and knowledge of the background goes a long way in muddling through any gaps in the logic of the rules as written.

That's my take on it.


*Both you and your opponent.

BEEGfrog
17-10-2008, 01:12
A character with a banner that makes him unbreakable is not an unbreakable character he is a normal character in a unit made unbreakable by a banner. The fact that the unit size is 1 (him) doesn't matter, the banner affects the unit not the character (except incidentally as a member of the unit).

When the normal character joins the normal unit to become a single unit then the new single unit is unbreakable.

DeathlessDraich
17-10-2008, 11:11
It depends on the way the rules of the magic banner is phrased.

Banner of Nagarythe rules states "the unit *containing* the banner becomes Unbreakable" -
Not crystal clear but to me the word 'containing' is nebulous enough to enable the bearer of that item to join any unit since the rule does not state the 'the bearer or *only* the bearer is Unbreakable'.


I can't think of other banners which might cause this problem.

Kouran rules are clearer - Kouran and the Blackguard are Unbreakable

Crispian25
17-10-2008, 13:12
While this is a quirk in the language, the purpose of the BSB is to join units to help with combat (as evidenced by the Battle Standard giving +1 CR). The BSB is allowed to carry any magical banner at points listed. By carrying one banner, he is not therefore prevented from joining a unit because the banner makes him unbreakable. The intent is to include it in a unit to make the unit unbreakable. He can freely join any unit, leave and switch to your heart's content. As for the double unit strength, I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm guessing that the banner only makes them count as double unit strength for CR, unless the developers intended this loophole. Go-Go Gadget FAQ!