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Kyrolon
17-10-2008, 19:00
I caught this one from a mention on TMP this morning. What's the deal with the price of the new modular terrain board? (That's a rhetorical question BTW).

It was advertised at $150 in the US if I recall correctly. Then it was raised to $200. Now it is up to $275+an additional $15 in extra shipping for a total of $290.

Now I am not normally one for protracted price rants, but doesn't this one seem a little excessive? On the heels of the announced increase in WD from $60 to $80 it seems GW really wants to either alienate customers, or force you to preorder since that's the only time the products are worth it.

Discuss.

Dan

spud75
17-10-2008, 19:06
The plastic gameboard is up for pre-order on the new website.

I was planning on getting one until I saw the price - 150:wtf:. That is a 50% increase from the leaked brochure price.

Not normally one to complain about GW prices but this is just ridiculous. One less gameboard pre-ordered.

DarkWarrior1981
17-10-2008, 19:17
The plastic gameboard is up for pre-order on the new website.

I was planning on getting one until I saw the price - 150:wtf:. That is a 50% increase from the leaked brochure price.

Not normally one to complain about GW prices but this is just ridiculous. One less gameboard pre-ordered.
Wow, that is expensive. Over here in Germany they cost 160 (around 130), at least is this the pre-order price, maybe they go up too.:wtf:

sheck2
17-10-2008, 19:17
They got too many pre-orders...realized how popular it would be and attempted to farm profit...

OR

The ship carrying it from the Far East sank...significantly reducing supply...so they raised prices to ensure profit...

OR

Since the original $175 deterred most folks from buying it...they decided to just raise the price 'cause who ever was buying it was obviously price inelastic...

OR

To support the financially strapped British economy hurt by the recent crisis...they raised prices to do their part...

:)

Bregalad
17-10-2008, 19:34
OR

it was a return bet by the FW Manta builder: "...and you don't dare to make a 100% price hike on a new and potentially good selling item"

Hey, it is the well known current GW strategy: If people like a new product increase the price until noone can afford it (or sell the rights to others).

Bloodknight
17-10-2008, 19:39
Wow. 160 is pretty close to being not interesting anymore, but if they raise it to 200, they may as well keep it.

Lord Damocles
17-10-2008, 19:46
The sad thing is that I can still see it selling even at this absurdly high price...:(

spud75
17-10-2008, 20:22
Got excited there for a second - GW website pronounces gameboard price correction - You guessed it 150 and not 100 as advertised!

GW just passed my spending threshold and I consider myself well paid.

No doubt those that spend small fortunes at Forgeworld will get one or two though!

burning crome
17-10-2008, 20:25
we're strapped for cash cos of you lot !!!!! and iceland has'nt helped.

It was to be said thou that a bit price for some molded foam board not sure if they really thought this one though very hard??

Lord Malorne
17-10-2008, 20:25
Agreed, many people will not find these affordable, I and others will just use a piece of MDF with a mat on and our own terrain...a damn site cheaper and lets you buy alot of terrain.

Vic
17-10-2008, 20:38
$290 US huh?

Hmm...does it include the remains of the blunt they smoked before coming up with this list price? 'Cause if it does, that's not so bad. It'll dull the pain of having spent $290 for four sheets of 2'x2' plastic (the price for the material used in most plastics has dropped considerably according to CNN Business btw).

Batwings
17-10-2008, 20:52
Out here in the US the proposed price has jumped from $175 to $200 to $290, leaving me with the distinct impression that GW are simply plucking numbers out of thin air.

It's a luxury item that had many people drawing in breath at the initial price, a price now so blatantly (not to mention, publically) inflated I can't imagine many reaching for their wallets. In my case, my gaming group were planning on picking up 2 sets but I seriously doubt the guys will be comforable stumping up the best part of $600 (plus materials to finish the surfaces) between them.

A baffling display of ineptitude from GW and something of a disaster for their customer relations.

Tagis
17-10-2008, 21:08
This is, unfortuantely, yet another example of Games Workshop shooting itself in the foot. All people are now going to remember about this kit is the massive increase in price over such a short time and inept claims of the original price being a mistake. A shame, as it was nice to see GW stretching themselves with this kit.

orks2134
17-10-2008, 21:13
Yep, another cheap made in China terrain piece, totally blown up in price by GW.

Outstanding work to the nobs in Nott.

orks2134
17-10-2008, 21:14
Hey, it is the well known current GW strategy: If people like a new product increase the price until noone can afford it (or sell the rights to others).


That's the truth right there.

Orinoco
17-10-2008, 21:17
150 quid? for an unpainted series of sections? i'd rather pay a few quid for some board and spend some dosh on terrain. if didn't already have mountains of the stuff...

stonehorse
17-10-2008, 21:17
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1360000&prodId=prod1690005

Sweet Jesus... that is a very silly price. For those who think it is a good price tag, go look at how little it would cost to make a gaming board from a DIY store. MDF is quite cheap.

Grimtuff
17-10-2008, 21:18
Well that's now 50 over my limit, so much for that. :rolleyes:

orks2134
17-10-2008, 21:24
Honestly, it's a really nice looking product.

The price though - what the frick were they thinking? ******!

stonehorse
17-10-2008, 21:25
Head+Sand=GW.

Guess they either don't watch the news, or they don't vist DIY stores much.

Coasty
17-10-2008, 21:38
Even I have to file this one under 'not bloody likely', and I'm pretty useless when it comes to not spending money.

Lord Malorne
17-10-2008, 21:43
Second thread on this but this is an american one :p.

I mean after the MDF board and mat for the board...you could bu an imperial city set with money leftover! at least you can on this side of the pond.

Tagis
17-10-2008, 21:43
I think a valid comparison can be made with Total System Scenics offerings

http://www.totalsystemscenic.com/Default.asp?cookiecheck=yes&

Have a look at their 2' by 2' tiles - these come pre-flocked.

Mr. Smuckles
17-10-2008, 21:51
Second thread on this but this is an american one :p.

I mean after the MDF board and mat for the board...you could bu an imperial city set with money leftover! at least you can on this side of the pond.

I just did that.

After they announced the Citadel game board, I picked up a 6x4 piece of birch, some textured spray paint, the Imperial City, ork barrikades, and the moonscape set and it still came in cheaper than the current price of $290.

Templar Ben
17-10-2008, 22:32
I truly don't understand (as I said on the rumors thread where I first saw this). You can get the same hill from GW is two boxes at $25 each. So for 50 you have the same hill. Since you have to put this table somewhere I don't see why it is better than the existing $50 hill.

Lord Malorne
17-10-2008, 22:34
Now if it had an elaborate underground bunker system then...maybe...Its hollow I think?

Templar Ben
17-10-2008, 22:39
Not truly hollow. It has ribbing to give it structure so I will not bend if you put heavy items on it.

Comrade Wraith
17-10-2008, 22:46
Very poor planning by GW.... there is no market for such an expensive board, young children who aren't capable enough yet to build a board will be unable to afford it, then older wargamers with an income will in most cases have been in the hobby long enough to build a far superior and cheaper board themselves.

What I was expecting from this was a nice cheap thing used for quick games with a friend or something (that is, as opposed to having a purpose built beatiful game board for large battles etc)

how dissapointing:(

Pokpoko
17-10-2008, 22:59
ookay...even Ziterdes(which has some high prices too) has their modular table for 160$ rather than 290, and with far wider choice of tiles! i'm not gonna ask what were they thinking as i can guess it included words like "suckers" "pay anthing" "milk them dry", but...mad,mad,mad!

Lord Malorne
17-10-2008, 23:02
TBH I will find the WD adverts for this funny as they try to sell just how good and how much you need it :D.

olmsted
17-10-2008, 23:09
im sure some gaming stores will group up and throw in some 50 or so dollars.

bringerofdecay
17-10-2008, 23:17
that's a shame, 150 is a lot, but not above what people will be willing to pay, my intention of 2 may have just gone down to one though, on another note has anyone seen the scenery painting kit? 25 and it looks to be a bit of a bargain!

Coasty
17-10-2008, 23:35
Not truly hollow. It has ribbing to give it structure so I will not bend if you put heavy items on it.

I thought of a joke there, but there are small childs on the forum, so... :angel:

Comrade Wraith
17-10-2008, 23:50
Coasty for gentleman of the year!

Templar Ben
18-10-2008, 00:17
Should we combine the threads since the price is so close in the UK and the US?

We seem to have the same response in both threads.

Templar Ben
18-10-2008, 00:18
Cheers Coasty.

So is anyone planning on buying this (besides Harry)?

Coasty
18-10-2008, 00:22
I really, really want to (being a clumsy, useless muppet when it comes to woodwork) but I don't know if I can justify it to myself, and I'm a pretty easy guy to justify things to.

'Come on, it'll be fun...'
'Oh, ok.'

Like that.

Coasty
18-10-2008, 00:24
Transatlantic 'Grrr', basically.

parus_ater
18-10-2008, 00:27
Funny thing, My local indie seller is a bike shop owner and he was saying to me that he was thinking about getting his brother who's a joiner to make a few folding 6'4' tables and he'd sculpt/flock/paint them and his guess would be a price of 75-100 going by the time and materials. To think he was worried that they'd be too expensive....

neXus6
18-10-2008, 00:30
Just out of curiosity is there anyone who thinks that they COULDN'T build their own board for cheaper?

If I had a kid who was into the hobby I would love spending time building a gaming table with them rather than buying some plastic premade stuff.

neXus6
18-10-2008, 00:34
:p
I just noticed the US thread and posted on it didn't see this one.

Aye combining them is probably worthwhile.

As I said on the other thread, if I had a kid who was into the hobby I would love building a gaming table with them, putting all the scenery THEY wanted onto it, true most of the parents who will buy these for their kids will probably be the ones who don't have enough time to spend doing that with their kid/the just throw money at the kid till it goes away type, which is a shame really.

parus_ater
18-10-2008, 00:41
Nexus, you've just hit the nail on the head!

The point being, these things aint for the likes of us, they're aimed at Wee Johnny being spoiled this christmas. Go to your local GW this crimbo and you'll see the "later life" parents making sure their wee precious gets everything he needs to play the game. Not a big problem mind, if those people are fool enough to pay over the odds then let them. I've got my insulation foam on a board in the garage and it looks better and does the job and most importantly I BLOODY MADE IT!!!!!!!!!!

Comrade Wraith
18-10-2008, 01:04
Just out of curiosity is there anyone who thinks that they COULDN'T build their own board for cheaper?

If I had a kid who was into the hobby I would love spending time building a gaming table with them rather than buying some plastic premade stuff.

Here here!

Thing is, if you are going tos pend over 150 on making your own board, it's gonna look a damn load better than the GW one....

Why is it so expensive anyway? Solid Gold core?

Crazy Harborc
18-10-2008, 01:11
A 4 by 6 tabletop without a table under it and all for $290(USD)....Plus the costs of flocking and paint?? People, a 4 by 8 table, using a plywood top plus wood for legs, supports, nuts and bolts to hold it together. Then there would be the needed styrofoam sheets for hills, flocking, paints (cheap housepaints).....Been there and priced all that with/for a friend....under $200(USD)

starlight
18-10-2008, 01:16
For $300+ (after shipping, etc) I can get enough supplies to build some fairly nice terrain *and* have enough left over to feed and water the troops who will build it...

Batwings
18-10-2008, 01:47
I was looking forward to aquiring a prebuilt, modular, indestructible table that required little more than a splash of sand and a lick of paint to look grand. I have neither the tools nor the inclination required to build my own. I also need to be able to break the table down for storage and transportation.
GW's board was looking like the answer to my prayers but I can't justify paying that high a price (particularly in light of what it was previously announced at).

It just feels like a rip-off.

Pokpoko
18-10-2008, 01:54
Batwings...so what stopped you buying such prebuilt,modular table earlier? it's not like there weren't any before GW did that one.

Hicks
18-10-2008, 01:55
The only people who are still buying GW products are either long time addicts or kids with rich parents. Both those groups will have the same reasoning I think: "I can have a crapy bare plastic board... or a NEW ARMY". Guess what they'll choose.

Brimweave
18-10-2008, 02:26
The board looks good but for the price its just ridiculous. It is just easier to buy your own. My mate just got 2 pieces of 2x4 foot mdf sheets, put some flock on each and only cost him 30 max and still worked great. I would just buy some GW buildings and play on the carpet myself :D.

orks2134
18-10-2008, 02:43
Yeah, one could make a board for about $75, with a bazillion better hills and features, flocked and painted, and have, oh $225 left over for more important stuff, like BEER.

BOO-YA-SHAK-A!

Malakai
18-10-2008, 03:41
This is really disappointing. I don't mind paying GW prices. I have tons of FW stuff including a Revenant Titan and a greater daemon, but there is no way in Hell I would ever buy this thing. Leave it to GW to pull a bone headed stunt like this during a recession. :mad:

-Malakai

Sidstyler
18-10-2008, 07:17
I thought of a joke there, but there are small childs on the forum, so... :angel:

lmao!

Anyway, it pains me, literally pains me, to see them doing something so god-damned stupid. This wasn't a bad idea before they let their greed take over...

Ilmarinen
18-10-2008, 10:25
I'm very disappointed by this too. I was planning on getting one before the price increase, but 150 is just too much. Before you say anything, yes, I did try and make my own with MDF and styrofoam, but not having a handy workshop and larger tools and not much time meant that it never happened. The cost for these materials in the UK seems much higher than in the US, and I found it hard to get the precise measurements I wanted (and the mess in my front room was appalling) so a standard size board like this in plastic would have been great. I was kinda looking forward to getting two actually, so I could model terrain directly onto a couple of tiles, and hoping GW would release other tiles in future. Sorry GW, even this addict is going to say no this time.

Lord Malorne
18-10-2008, 10:40
Just buy a 6x4 MDF board and a GW green grass gaming mat, either glue or staple one side and your done! if you feel super energetic then paint the other side black (good for 40k and BFG) or swirling mix of black and grey....leaves 120 for an imperial city...so 20 for paints! jobs a good 'un.

ChrisMurray
18-10-2008, 10:58
I can't comment on the UK price, but I can understand the US\Euro price.

I've just been and seen what the conversion rates are and at this moment 150 is:

150 British pounds = 192.506325 Euros
150 British pounds = 258.69 U.S. dollars

Add to that shipping costs\import tax you can see why it's the price it is in other countries. The only question is why is it so expensive in the first place (UK price)?

blongbling
18-10-2008, 11:03
i would guess its cos its plasitc and the tooling costs must be very high.

logan054
18-10-2008, 11:53
that really is a joke, i think if i bought another one i would get that off ebay again, about the half the price as well and a 8x4

King Vyper
18-10-2008, 12:04
Wow, That is one hell of a price jump.

Hey Folks! Let's Do some Price Comparison!

John the Gamer wants to get his very own gaming board. He wants a board and some starting terrain. He looks ar GW and an indie company.

Gamesworkshop

1 x Citadel Realm of Battle Gameboard - $290.00
1 x Citadel Scenery Painting Pack - $40.00
1 x Citadel Gaming Hill - $25.00
1 x Citadel Wood - $25.00

Estimated Total = $412.30 (Taxes and Shipping)


War Zone Gaming Terrain Systems (NA Gaming Company)
Note: All terrain comes in 1 of 4 types (Terran,Badlands,Bloodstone, & Icelands)

1 x 6'x4'x1.5" Foldable Prepainted & Flocked Battleboard - $96.00
1 x 70 Piece Terrain Set* - $104.00

Estimated Total = $230.20 (Taxes and Shipping)

*Includes the following:
GTS100 Basic Terrainer
GTS520 Cliff Face
GTS530 Mountain Pac
GTS550 Hill Pac
GTS620 Flock
GTS700 Hard Cover
GTS742 Tall Rks and Ridges
GTS770 B Wire Trench

That is over a $180.00 differance. That is a lot of other stuff you could buy.

Archaon
18-10-2008, 12:14
The sad thing is that I can still see it selling even at this absurdly high price...:(

No.. the sad thing is that people could make similar or even better boards with less money and a little bit more effort (the GW boards still need to be painted, flocked and finished).

For that price i can buy huge amounts of raw materials.. from styrofoam for the board to paint to flocking materials and it will look well too.

Even if you don't have the time or the skills (which are not that high i assure you) you can surely find some guy who's built some boards, ask him to do it for you with a bit of payment and you still won't pay as much.

RevEv
18-10-2008, 12:28
As I've already said in this thread (now, sadly, closed as it was in wrong place)

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167323

The cost of this thing will put it out of reach of even the most spoilt newbie, and be more than even the most committed gamer is prepared to pay - especially as they will already have a big collection of terrain. I honestly do not know to whom GW are aiming with this product.

Please keep posting your opinions on the price in the very vain hope that GW MIGHT (and I'm not holding my breathe) actually realise that they have made a huge mistake and reduce the price... as they did eventually for the Fortress (from 75 to 50).

Bregalad
18-10-2008, 12:36
It is not a bad product, but the price is simply unacceptable (and I buy regularly from Forge World!).

So I keep on gaming on my trustworthy Ziterdes boards:
http://www.ziterdes.de/ziterdes/en/produkte/listview.php?catID=69&subcatID=99

And the Zuzzy rubber mats now look like a steal:
http://www.zuzzy.com/dr-tf-001_terra_flex_gaming_mat.html (52.61 $)
http://www.zuzzy.com/rl-tf-001_terra_flex_gaming_mat.html (same).
Imagine: You can get 4 of those for the price of ONE GW board!

freddythebig
18-10-2008, 12:41
I had been keeping my eye on this for a while now since I first heard the rumours a while ago.
Although I already have a couple gaming boards at home that I store in my garage, I was also considering getting one of these new boards.
I am a fairly well off home owner with a reasonably well paid job but I am afraid that with this new price, GW have well and truly crossed the line of what I am prepared to pay.
Another potential customer lost.

The boyz
18-10-2008, 12:43
I can't believe how expensive that gaming table is. GW are asking for a ridiculous amount of money, 150 no thanks.

tk7
18-10-2008, 16:07
The price is disappointing really, at 100 I was considering buying it (albeit from an independent ~80) but I think it's just a little too expensive for what it is.

I haven't seen it in the flesh, and it does look good on the pics, but from what others are saying you can get plenty of materials to build your own for a lot less.

I think the mat and seperate scenery will be the way forward if I do buy something.

Gargskull
18-10-2008, 16:15
I pre-ordered this with a UK indie online, said indie offer's 25% off on everything and there was also a coupon at the time for a further 2 off so I got the board set for 73 + 10 for postage. They also take the payment in advance since they'd been having trouble with people dragging their heels over payments so that 83 was gone from my account before this price rise occurred.

I panicked when I saw this news yesterday and e-mailed them straight away since they had put the price up on their site to 115. Amazingly they have said they will honour the price I already paid. I don't know if they're going to lose a lot of money on this but they WILL be getting all my business from now on.

The price rise itself is juts nuts, 100 was justifiable because it looks so good and I like the strength and tidiness of it. 150 is madness and I certainly wouldn't be buying it at that price no matter how much I wanted it.

thinkerman
18-10-2008, 16:19
Have talked with a few people and friends in the store, its a great product but price is just too high.

For 150 i want it all pre painted, flocked and ready to play

I was considering buying it at 100 but at 150 im sorry but i can buy wood and other matterials along with sand, flock, citadel buildings etc for much much much cheaper.

GraemePaul
18-10-2008, 16:25
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1360000&prodId=prod1690005

Sweet Jesus... that is a very silly price. For those who think it is a good price tag, go look at how little it would cost to make a gaming board from a DIY store. MDF is quite cheap.

I dunno, I was about to agree and I have made my fair share of boards over the years (spent around 100 between the last 4). However these dont look too bad and the modular format is very nice (I imagine this would be useful combining multiple sets for apocalypse).

I doubt I would buy it myself but for someone with some cash and not interested in making their own I could see why they would buy it.

Luthor
18-10-2008, 17:02
For $290 I expect it to come complete with a swimsuit model! :mad:

Shadowheart
18-10-2008, 17:42
I thought at 100 it was about as overpriced as any GW product, but 150... you can get three Imperial Sectors or battleforces for that. I could see a modular board selling for that kinda money, but not if it's as basic (and unfinished) as this. Quite aside from the DIY factor, I just don't see how a couple of hill sections is going to get people that excited.

Horus38
18-10-2008, 18:32
WOW: I saw the gaming board picture they have up with all the terrain and it still seemed steep. But color me stupid it doesn't come with a painted or flocked surface or additional terrain. Are you ********** serious!? For $300+ !?!?!

Vic
18-10-2008, 18:47
@Horus:

Yes, yes they are. Welcome to the world of GW :)

Darnok
18-10-2008, 19:09
Now it is up to $275

Right now the prices in Euro are the same as those in Dollars (so boxes selling for $15 are 15 here). No way I'm paying 275 for a board. No way.

Bloodknight
18-10-2008, 19:16
No way anybody is going to pay that. You get almost two Ziterdes boards for that price.

EmperorNorton
18-10-2008, 19:47
Even 160 is ridiculous.
I bought a wooden board a couple weeks ago, for about 25, then spent the same on the Citadel grass mat.
Considering I already have plenty of terrain I won't even give the battle board another thought.

The owner of my FLGS told me that he thought about getting one for the store. I'll have to ask how he thinks about that now.

JLBeady
18-10-2008, 19:57
I have been checking in with most of the hobby sites and the reaction has been ranged from bitter disappointment to out rate anger.

Like I said somewhere else this item is going to die a quick and quiet death. You know that they have probably made their minimum order with the vendor and that's it. For GW's sake, hopefully they didn't buy a lot because they sure are not going to sell a lot.

It's been a long time since I have seen this kind of hostility to a GW release.

Lord Damocles
18-10-2008, 20:45
The sad thing is that I can still see it selling even at this absurdly high price...:(
No.. the sad thing is that people could make similar or even better boards with less money and a little bit more effort (the GW boards still need to be painted, flocked and finished).

For that price i can buy huge amounts of raw materials.. from styrofoam for the board to paint to flocking materials and it will look well too.

Even if you don't have the time or the skills (which are not that high i assure you) you can surely find some guy who's built some boards, ask him to do it for you with a bit of payment and you still won't pay as much.
Hell, I didn't mean to imply that I might pay that! :eek:


However it's a proven fact that some people will pay whatever GW asks no matter how absurdly high the price may be.

Turns out I was right as well: (form the 'game table alternatives' thread)


I will gladly drop $275 on the GW table Please and Thank You

I agree totally. Once again GW has delivered a fantastic product. The community of veterans ask for some love. GW respond with a great looking table. Those Red Dragon Terrain are not in the same league as the GW table even before it has been flocked.

If the cost is really the only issue people have with board then it is a shame. I guess GW looked at the risk and decided to go with an expensive niche product rather take on larger development costs and build something cheaper.

I am really surprised people react so strongly to the price. You don't need to buy this. You can play on your bedroom floor. This is completely unlike your army which costs about the same and which you do need to buy if you want to play in a GW store or tourney and not from their competitors that actually offer decent alternatives.

Have to agree here. Having had a chance to manhandle the GW ones. I'll be giving up just that little more of my soul
Etc. etc...


Sadly if people keep on paying these prices, GW will keep charging them - and that's not good for anyone :(

Strix
18-10-2008, 21:42
It is not a bad product, but the price is simply unacceptable (and I buy regularly from Forge World!).

So I keep on gaming on my trustworthy Ziterdes boards:
http://www.ziterdes.de/ziterdes/en/produkte/listview.php?catID=69&subcatID=99
I was actually going to get one of these boards until you posted this up, so thats saved me a crapload of cash.

I spend loads in workshop and I still reckon this is way over priced. I can see why its popular and all, and the fact it transports is always a plus, but its just far too expencive, considering I can get 2 of these (http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9254697&fh_view_size=6&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=paste+tables&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1224362067111&isSearch=true) for 25, cover them in sand and use the terrain I have, making a lighter, portable table.

Malakai
18-10-2008, 21:43
Sadly if people keep on paying these prices, GW will keep charging them - and that's not good for anyone :(

Well it's their money to spend. I am confused about one thing though. Weren't their bundle sets (includes fantasy terrain for fantasy board, 40K for 40K etc.) supposed to be at this price? If this is just the basic cost of the table what are the prices for the bundle deals? Are they even going to do them now?

-Malakai

LictorIntheGrass
19-10-2008, 00:04
Can anyone honestly be surprise? IT'S GAMESWORK SHOP! The company that feeds our habits, of course they think can do this...

WHAT'S WORSE is that they up the price in this economy we have today. GW... what a bunch of losers.

Thud
19-10-2008, 01:53
This is hilarious. It's even better than the Blood Knights farce. You know, the ones where you have to sell a kidney to afford a full squad.

Angelwing
19-10-2008, 04:40
Ouch. Way out of my league. This has reminded me of the release of the space hulk 2nd ed plastic terminators as a separate set. They were priced the same as the metals box set (25). After concern was expressed by store staff, and a lack of sales, the price was reduced. One hopes that history repeats itself for modular board.

Sidstyler
19-10-2008, 06:41
WOW: I saw the gaming board picture they have up with all the terrain and it still seemed steep. But color me stupid it doesn't come with a painted or flocked surface or additional terrain. Are you ********** serious!? For $300+ !?!?!

Yep, it'll cost you an extra $40 on top of that for the painting kit.

It might be worth what they're asking if it came with an Imperial Sector kit and craters (or appropriate WHF terrain) and maybe some hills, but just for the board that's pretty damned stupid.

God man, I like GW but they are seriously trying my patience. They really need to get a god-damned clue.

neXus6
19-10-2008, 08:11
No way anybody is going to pay that. You get almost two Ziterdes boards for that price.

You CAN get two Ziterdes boards for that and still save a bit, they are about 28 Euros for a 2'x2' section, but if you buy the pre-done pack of 6 it's only 125 Euros.
:)

Christine
19-10-2008, 08:52
That is utterly insane, it's a nice product but it's not 150 nice. I always thought 100 was expensive but this just boggles me...

Thommy H
19-10-2008, 10:02
Just ridiculous. I only echo everyone else's sentiments because this is one of those situations where the manufacturer really needs to see that the customer base is almost universally disgusted.

I'm actually in the market for a gaming board right now. It never occurred to me to buy anything from GW - not when I can just go down B&Q and get some MDF and a pot of green paint - but it shouldn't be that much of a no-brainer, should it? I should at least think "in an ideal world, I'd buy the proper GW version" but I wouldn't even consider forking out that amount of money for something like this. If I was rich, I wouldn't do it: I'd find it offensive to waste 150 on something so self-evidently not worth it.

I mean, I usually buy GW products from ebay or independents so I can get a bit of a discount but sometimes I do buy from a GW store because it's convenient and a few pounds either way isn't that big of a deal - it's nice to hand over the money and have the toys in your hand right away, after all - but I'd never, ever, ever consider buying this over the alternatives. Wouldn't even cross my mind.

And, Jesus, who puts the cost of a new product up 50% like that? Did the guys who price this stuff learn their business techniques from Del Boy or something? You can't just trick people.

Nephilim of Sin
19-10-2008, 10:16
I now take back every good thing I said about this board. I am genuinely sadden and disgusted.

Just when I thought GW was getting back into the 'Spirit of the Hobby', they do the one thing that can instantly change our opinions of them again.

75hastings69
19-10-2008, 10:18
I was originally going to buy one of these, but not now. 150 could be much better spent elsewhere, you could make something as good as that for around 30. Very, very poor pricing strategy, if they cost less they would sell more, at this price though I can't see them shifting many at all.

zedeyejoe
19-10-2008, 10:26
Yep, made my own for many a year now. 9mm chipboard base. Fiberboard on top, shaped with a sanding disc on a power drill. All over sized with water + PVA glue and painted.

http://www.jagclub.co.uk/hunt_nids/hunt_nid03.JPG

from

http://www.jagclub.co.uk/hunt_nids.htm

Size 3 foot by 2 foot. So 4 make up a 6x4 table. Smaller is probably better for most people. Lots of commercial products out there as well.

Ex-Blueshirt
19-10-2008, 10:54
It's madness, just madness.

ORKY ARD BOYZ
19-10-2008, 11:39
It's madness, just madness.

Madness?! This is Spart-

But seriously this is madness.

LuciusAR
19-10-2008, 12:03
I think a valid comparison can be made with Total System Scenics offerings

http://www.totalsystemscenic.com/Default.asp?cookiecheck=yes&

Have a look at their 2' by 2' tiles - these come pre-flocked.

Wow. 6-50 for a 2' by 2' per flocked section (albiet plain). Just Wow.

I think its fair to say that these guys have got my business. I reckon can build a 6 x 6 board with terrain from these guys for about 1/4 of the price that GW is charging for this.

Everyone, i implore you check this site out and buy from here if you thing GW is charging too much.

GraemePaul
19-10-2008, 12:10
It is not a bad product, but the price is simply unacceptable (and I buy regularly from Forge World!).

So I keep on gaming on my trustworthy Ziterdes boards:
http://www.ziterdes.de/ziterdes/en/produkte/listview.php?catID=69&subcatID=99

And the Zuzzy rubber mats now look like a steal:
http://www.zuzzy.com/dr-tf-001_terra_flex_gaming_mat.html (52.61 $)
http://www.zuzzy.com/rl-tf-001_terra_flex_gaming_mat.html (same).
Imagine: You can get 4 of those for the price of ONE GW board!

I withdraw my previous statement. The Ziterdes boards make the GW boards look overpriced.

silverstu
19-10-2008, 12:39
You know I had thought of stretching my finances and get one of the boards- at 100 it was just about excusable[saving on time building a board]- plus it looks good and is[in my opinion] well designed.

BUT that price rise- NO CHANCE - I can't justify spending that sort of money on a board- I think I'll spend my time instead.
The only hope for this is if GW backtrack and reduce the price. It's a shame because it is a good product but just way over priced- I really feel for the designers who did great work coming up with a nice product only to be shafted by the sales department.

Bregalad
19-10-2008, 13:28
So the question is:
"Shall I get a new complete Warhammer army ... or an unpainted board?":rolleyes:

SonofUltramar
19-10-2008, 13:31
Totalsystemscenic.com is fantastic for those of us in the Uk (and the rest of Europe), while looking for FoW tables and scenery I came across a couple of places in the U.S. which I would encourage anyone in North America to look at as they are far cheaper

One of my favourites was

http://www.theterrainguy.com/gamemats.html

for a variety of gaming mats and various other scenery bits and pieces

Having made many gaming tables over the years I have to say even picking up new equipment (Hot Wire Cutter and modelling knife) plus 2'x4' boards and poly foam I could make a good table plus hills etc. for around 60 which I think i'll be doing for some time to come?

Moralein
19-10-2008, 14:57
I've never bought a gaming board, I've always made my own. It's not difficult, or expensive or even time consuming. The large DIY places will even cut your MDF sheets into any size you want (generally at no extra charge).

My question would be, what would people be prepared to pay for this product? I've seen comments that 100 quid would be ok, but I find even this a bit steep.

To answer my own question, I'd probably pay around 75 pounds for the board including the bag. Beyond that it's cheaper and easier to make my own.

EmperorNorton
19-10-2008, 16:20
To answer my own question, I'd probably pay around 75 pounds for the board including the bag. Beyond that it's cheaper and easier to make my own.

I'd have felt comfortable paying 100 for it, which is about the same.

Norsehawk
19-10-2008, 17:16
At 175, I was intrigued, at 200, I was still thinking about it but leaning towards no... at 290. I'll just go to home depot, buy some MDF and make my own.

orks2134
19-10-2008, 17:26
OK, just checked out the pictures all over again, especially in my White Dwarf (what an awesome mag! Sure, 8 pages was WAAAY too many for the board)

I am totally getting enough to start my own club in the basement. THREE for sure, just to start. I can make 4, 4 foot tables out of those to make small games on (and Lord of the Rings, the BEST games EVER!), and then add a FOURTH table to get fully involved with 40k and the other GW games (maybe Fantasy too).

So I am totally IN for FOUR!

It's gonna be tight y'all!

Templar Ben
19-10-2008, 20:09
Not sure Orks, are we supposed to laugh or cry? ;)

orks2134
19-10-2008, 21:47
Not sure Orks, are we supposed to laugh or cry? ;)

I was totally kidding. For $1200 for four boards, I could buy a LOTTA stuff!

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

Bob5000
19-10-2008, 22:15
Nobody seems to be defending this price rise , which in itself is unusual .

It may be that the cost of producing these boards ( plastic tooling is very expensive ) and the projected sales ( lower volume ? ) have forced GW to raise the already IMO very high price of the boards . It may be simple economics , not enough projected short term sales to recoup investment , but yikes , at least at 100 GW may have been able to recoup investment , but at 150 this seems even less likely .

Lack of sales may force a price drop .

IAMNOTHERE
19-10-2008, 22:48
The thing is even from a sales point of view it's wrong.

Each of these will have a unit cost to recoup all initial outlay and continued production etc. If they only plan to sell 10 then that unit cost will be high but if they plan to sell lots then the cost to build each one also comes down.

What they should be doing is offering it as almost a loss leader so loads fly off the shelves. What they're currently doing is what the bank manager says - "raise the prices". All that ever does is make your loyal customers disgruntled.

Commissar Bone
20-10-2008, 00:13
What they're currently doing is what the bank manager says - "raise the prices". All that ever does is make your loyal customers disgruntled.

"Currently", as in "since 1992". There will be protests, "boycotts", complaints, then assurances to
"only buy online at a discount" (which still means a sale for GW, since they price accordingly), then acceptance and more purchases...just like every other time they raise prices.

Which is why they don't need to listen.

Warboss Antoni
20-10-2008, 00:41
This thing is made like the majority of GW hobby supplies, terrain, gaming aids, etc.
Humoungus price tag for the dumb asses and sorry people who red shirts convinced that the product is psecail, and cannot be found anywhere, or is only found in a much lower quality. Price it at $1000 - GW will say it's made out of platinum and sell it to someone.

I think the only way GW would ever stop being so stupid is if people weren't conviced it's not the same thing in your local hobby shop for 1/10 of the price.

Crazy Harborc
20-10-2008, 01:06
It may be temporary.....or not. For what....two or three years GW has not met it's projections, sales numbers and in coming money from sales are down. Dividends and incoming cashflow growth aren't happening.

sheck2
20-10-2008, 02:48
Nobody seems to be defending this price rise , which in itself is unusual .

Lack of sales may force a price drop .

I have two theories...

1. Someone sent the wholesale price to marketing. It got published and then they realized the mistake. The 'new' price is about 40% more than the one we saw originally published.

If true - the extreme price was purposeful...:(

2. Something happened in the last two weeks on the UK side. The US side published early so what we saw here was going to be the price i.e. 100 pounds and $175.

They missed something over the pond and had to raise the price on the UK side.

To prevent an imbalance (and everyone ordering from the US third-parties)...they raised the price on the US side (with its reprocussions).

The varying pound to dollar ratios of the last few days has scared them stiff....so they raised the price to an absurb level to future proof. But now have screwed themselves over because it will most likely kill sales.

neXus6
20-10-2008, 03:03
Nobody seems to be defending this price rise , which in itself is unusual.

I couldn't agree more, I know these forums are only a small section of the wargames collective but even still there are usually always people who will say "it's really not THAT expensive" or "if you think it's too much then don't pay but I'm going to cause I think it's still okay"...etc.

But with this, I felt it was over priced to start with I must say but I could see why people with very little time might go for it and it wasn't that far into "too expensive" if you bought from a 3rd party retailer, once the real price/increased price/whatever became known it was pretty much a 100% :wtf: across the board.

sheck2
20-10-2008, 03:06
Amazingly they have said they will honour the price I already paid.

If you were in the US - it would not be amazing. They would have to honor the price and provide the product since you already paid and they collected payment. I am not sure if UK law is set up the same way.

Refunding you money would not be enough, unless they specifically had a provision in the contact that 'refunding' was part of the contact. This is to prevent companies from advertising an advanced sale, collecting money, earning revenue on the money collected; then 'returning' the money rather than providing the service/product purchased...its a flim-flam way of scamming money from people.

Cypher
20-10-2008, 05:54
Yeah Im sorry but they've stuffed up with this one.

I was keen - the original price was steep, but justifiable, it just managed to strike that point between being appealing for what it is (and it does look like a good product) and "too expensive". Add an extra 50% to that price, and suddenly it's a whole lot less appealing.

The_Patriot
20-10-2008, 06:57
For $290 one could make a museum/professional train layout quality terrain. For a 1/4"x4'x8' sheet of hardwood plywood it's $12.00 from Lowe's and for the furring needed to protect the edges of the table it's roughly $.99-1.75 in which you'll need three 4"x8' strips. From Hobbylinc.com one could buy almost all of the terrain materials that are produced by Woodland Scenics at a great discount of about 27%. For a modular board, 3 of the 4 packs of sheet foam that's pre-cut to 1'x2' sections varies between $11.78-13.79 based upon the thickness of the foam you want can give you a nice selection of 16 1'x2' tiles or 32 1'x'1 tiles if you cut them in half. Flock and the static grass is pretty cheap as well for finishing the board. Throw in the trees for woods and some clear resin from Envirotex to make rivers you can get a superior board well under the $290 price tag of the unfinished GW board. For urban terrain Woodland Scenics makes a product that simulates concrete for roads and is easy to apply. The added bonus is that all the hills and other terrain features can be built right onto the board so there's no lines from the bases of the terrain pieces to break the illusion of reality.

I'm planning on making my own terrain using the professional railroader's methods to have an eye dropping three waterfalls with cliffs on the board. Each of the waterfalls would be on a separate tile for the modular board so I can switch them around and create different layouts. Two great books I can recommend are Making Terrain and Buildings for Historical Wargames by Timothy Hall and Jonathon Sutherland and The Scenery Manual by Woodland Scenics.

Bauglir
20-10-2008, 10:38
I'll buy it!

Mostly because I'm so lousy at scratchbuilding things myself. I've tried, time and time again, but the results has always been... lacking. Now I can get something that's easily packed away under my couch and that looks decent. I'll gently flock it, airbrush it and rest well knowing that I helped GW finance another company jet for their higher managment :) .

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 10:52
I'll buy it!

Mostly because I'm so lousy at scratchbuilding things myself. I've tried, time and time again, but the results has always been... lacking. Now I can get something that's easily packed away under my couch and that looks decent. I'll gently flock it, airbrush it and rest well knowing that I helped GW finance another company jet for their higher managment :) .

For 150 can't you just pay someone who can scratchbuild stuff to make a much better table for you?

This is what's so bizarre about this price. It's so excessive that you could realistically hire someone to come and build a very similar board for you. And, hilariously, for 150, you could buy a very nice dining table like the one you'd have to get to put this overpriced piece of junk on anyway. (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/6026930/Trail/searchtext%3ETABLE.htm)

It costs the same as a wooden dining table, people.

silverstu
20-10-2008, 10:57
The interesting thing with the initial pricing is that it was widely reported as 100- at gamesday, as listed by online independents and in some of GW published material. The huge leap in price must mean that original price was wholesale or costs have just leaped up. Obviously some people will have the disposable income to buy the board [the sale of apoc sets might have encouraged GW- but those sets where seen as really good value for money]-but it really does limit the market for it. Someone messed up somewhere -to develop a product that has to sell at too high a price to make it broadly appealing is a serious mistake. I mean they must have invested a fair bit in this- the metal mold tooling as well as the design and R&D - you wonder how long it will take to recoup those costs if it's sales are slow.

plantagenet
20-10-2008, 12:55
This is the first time I have seen the product and I must admit I am impressed with the way it looks. To the point where I would say I would defiently like one or two.

So to me the means the product is a good one. But the price point is a very interesting one. Why? Well at 150 pounds it is 25.99 more expensive than an Xbox which means it is defiently not a impulse buy product and the first time I can remember GW releasing a product that you would presume they want to be a main stream seller (8 pages in white dwarf) that is more expensive than one of the lastest gen consoles. I also consider it a price point where two is an unlikely purchase which is a shame as this seems to be like an ideal setup. People are going to have a real problem justifying 150 (Xbox) or 300 (PS3) purchases for what in essence is just injection modelled plastic.

The other reason I find this price interesting is world costs have actually fallen recently. So the cost of shipping from China is the lowest it has been in over a year, oil prices have halved and general raw material costs are down and falling due to the fact we are heading it a sever global economic slowdown. To me this product could have a great future you could eaisly see them for example adding other boards with modelled features such as swamps or rivers to the line, but at this price point they are probabyl not goign to sell enough to justify further developments....

I would love to know the costs but I honestly expect these boards on a per unit basis costing the company less than 1 Baneblade, yet having a significantly better potential for sales as potentially they would appeal to any player of there 3 main game systems.

So conclusions, for me the ideal price point would have been around 50 to 75 pound price bracket or approximatly 110 to 160 dollars. I am not going to give any hate here just a big D6 Generation style disappointed in there decision and say that I feel this defiently a wasted opportunity on there part.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 13:05
You know what it is: it's just totally in the wrong price bracket for the industry. In life, when we decide how excessive the price of something is, we compare it to other similar things. 150 is very cheap for...say...a piece of furniture, or an electrical item, or (as the poster above says) a next gen. console. In terms of cars, rent, bills, etc. 150 is nothing. With the amount I spend each month on just keeping a roof over my head and having food to eat underneath that roof, I could buy quite a few of these game boards.

But Warhammer stuff comes in the "hobby" bracket. That's the bracket where 50 feels like an awful lot of money. That's the bracket where I baulk at paying more than 2 per figure in a unit. Even though I spend more than 50 every week on food shopping, I can't even justify that in a month for hobby stuff. So who the hell's going to drop 150 on something like this? I'll tell you who: people for whom GW is the main expense in their life. Staff members and the like, who live, eat, breathe GW. They probably spend this kind of money on toys anyway - and these are the guys the people in the studio are surrounded by, so no wonder they have a warped idea of what the customer will pay.

But little old me, out in the real world, with rent and bills to pay...sorry, GW is just one of many diversions in my life, and no unnecessary part of a minor diversion is worth 150.

Osbad
20-10-2008, 13:21
They just priced themselves right out of my market.

I am a lazy, reasonably well off gamer who quite liked the idea and was definitely going to buy one as a Christmas Present from the wife **ahem* when the price was 100. It was a lot of money, but if I managed to get a decent online discount from somewhere at 75 - 80 it would have been worth it for the time saved and the practicality of the end result. Just. At this price though its just barking.

Guys at GW: wave "bye bye" to another sale...

Fricking ridiculous price. If GW are only prepared to sell us stuff at this sort of ridiculous margin they may as well shut up shop right now and save us and them a load of hassle. What's the point of producing goods at a price everyone thinks is absolutely stupid?

plantagenet
20-10-2008, 13:33
I actually think the other problem GW have is that other products they make are just more interesting. As Thommy said we tend to have a set amount we spend on our hobbies each month. So the new unit of Chaos Knights or SpaceMarines at 15 to 30 pounds make a more attractive and realistic choice.

The gaming board would have however if priced more realitically fallen into a slightly different bracket to there miniatures. As a one of purchase at a more affordable price point I could have seen myself picking one of these up. The reason I am guessing we are seeing such strong reactions to this product and its price is many others were thinking about it as well because it is a good looking table. After all if had been ugly and something we didnt desire then none of us would have even looked at the price let alone purchased it.

DarthSte
20-10-2008, 13:40
I saw oi online today and assumed 150 was a mistake... I guess I'll have to make to with my wood instead...

t-tauri
20-10-2008, 14:27
The plastic and the potential for expansion with new tiles would be good. Buying it and then having to flock and paint the whole thing is a non-starter at 150. At that price I'd want it ready to use. It's fairly unusual for something to attract almost universal price criticism on Warseer. Someone at GW has really dropped the ball on this one as a big price hike before release isn't good.

GW have reduced the price on scenery before- the old resin shrine dropped from 40 to 20 IIRC when no-one bought any so I wouldn't be too surprised to see these drop sometime next year.

Templar Ben
20-10-2008, 14:56
The comparison to an XBox is very interesting. If my kid showed me this and an XBox I know which one I would find closer to being worth that price.

Major Thom
20-10-2008, 14:57
I'm with Osbad on this. I admit I can be a lazy gamer, and I have the disposable income so at $175 this was a steal. At $200 I could live with it. At $290, it became screw it.

I was going to replace 2 old very heavy gaming tables with this one and it's possible expansions. So now GW has gone and screwed up my plans. :mad:

Old School
20-10-2008, 15:09
GW disgruntled customer #123, you're next! Step up to the pedestal and speak in to the microphone loudly...


"You have got to be joking GW! Seriously!? Define the GW customer who will buy these?"

At least it will teach more of us to start DIY'ing our own boards from now on.

Avian
20-10-2008, 15:12
At least it will teach more of us to start DIY'ing our own boards from now on.
And it's easy. I made one this morning. :)

logan054
20-10-2008, 15:17
you know i had a gaming board made for me for about 50, it happened to be a 8x4 and included several hills, the more i look at that board i cant help but wonder what else its going to do for that 150, i mean what is it going to flock itself? Thats really is the most stupidest pricing i have seen GW do in all my years. I think every time GW manage to make a decent priced product they go and release another 10 poorly priced ones.

I coudl seriously buy a months shopping or that, hell thats about as much a my electricity bill (and i get billed quarterly) :wtf:

Miggidy Mack
20-10-2008, 15:20
I think a valid comparison can be made with Total System Scenics offerings

http://www.totalsystemscenic.com/Default.asp?cookiecheck=yes&

Have a look at their 2' by 2' tiles - these come pre-flocked.

And now I'm going to buy a bunch of these. For the price of about $120US I can build a really nice trench warfare board without having to do anything myself.

Wow... I'm gonna be talking about those on next weeks show.

loveless
20-10-2008, 15:22
You know...most of the GW terrain isn't terrible in price. But then they decide to charge $290 for a "table" without legs. That's more than half of what I spent on a dining room table...a table that gets far more use and provides far more functionality. Now, maybe if they included a GW dinnerware set and cup holders molded into the back of the sections...:p

Besides...I don't really want a "pit of skulls" on every game I play, anyway. Hell, a few months ago, White Dwarf even had a "DIY Game Table!" article that proves to be massively cheaper than the GM-produced one. I wouldn't value this product at $150, let alone $290.

And I do believe this has been my first mini-rant on GW pricing. I think Warseer is getting to me finally :p

Miggidy Mack
20-10-2008, 15:30
And I do believe this has been my first mini-rant on GW pricing. I think Warseer is getting to me finally :p

Go back and listen to my old shows or look at my old posts. I was a huge huge huge GW fanboy. I defended them tooth and nail and really tried to keep an upbeat attitude about everything. I usually succeeded too.

Now look at me. GAH! Terrible FAQ's, odd price hikes. I could deal with the second (bad choice, i wont buy but who cares) but actively refusing to support their own game when they update to new additions? Making customers wait YEARS to be brought up to date rather than doing it quickly and cheaply online?

It's ok loveless, come over to the dork side. We all float down here.

Llew
20-10-2008, 15:33
BWAHAAAHAAHHHHAAAAHAHAAA! BWAHAHHAAAHAAHAAHAAAAAHAAAHAAAAAAA!
<pause>
BWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAAAAAAA!

$290? Are you kidding me? That's positively ludicrous. And the other recent terrain products (the chapel, woods, hills, etc.) have been the only products that didn't feel outrageously priced.

I understand them wanting to release a gaming table -- it's a good idea for them. But for god's sake...this can't do anything but cannibalize other sales. There are occasionally people who just buy anything that comes across their radar, but most people will spend a certain amount.

This is one of those products that I didn't need, but probably would have been willing to spend $150-$175 for it, just to have. I could have easily talked my wife into that as a Christmas present. But now? No way. I'll be getting that Vallejo paint set instead.

Great work, GW. Well done.

jedipenguin
20-10-2008, 15:41
/faints sounds of a bandwagon being jumped upon

Well since everybody is getting their shot in :P

I'm in the same boat as Osbad here, I'm a fairly lazy guy and I dont earn a terrible living, so at 100 quid I could have just about convinced myself that this was a good idea.

At 150 I get the feeling I'd need to have my head examined if I managed to justify that.

Bring on the MDF!!

orks2134
20-10-2008, 15:45
They just priced themselves right out of my market.

I am a lazy, reasonably well off gamer who quite liked the idea and was definitely going to buy one as a Christmas Present from the wife **ahem* when the price was 100. It was a lot of money, but if I managed to get a decent online discount from somewhere at 75 - 80 it would have been worth it for the time saved and the practicality of the end result. Just. At this price though its just barking.

Guys at GW: wave "bye bye" to another sale...

Fricking ridiculous price. If GW are only prepared to sell us stuff at this sort of ridiculous margin they may as well shut up shop right now and save us and them a load of hassle. What's the point of producing goods at a price everyone thinks is absolutely stupid?

Well, except mine would be in $CAD, this could have been exactly what I said. Afford it? Yes. Pay for it? NO FREAKING WAY!

Max Jet
20-10-2008, 16:23
I like this thread very much because of all the usefull links to other manufacturers porducing extremely good looking gaming tables for an acceptable price. I allready thought that 100 pounds were too much, but anyway.... Although the links are cool I would always prefer doing one completely from scratch just because it is much more fun building these things with friends, deciding what it will look like on every inch (currently doing it and having lots of fun!!)

Just a humble question, because some in this thread said they would still buy one. This is just a question out of curiosity!!!
Why do you want to buy a table for 150 pounds when you can get almost exactly the same from other manufacturers for less? (similair product and quality... hands down this is not a ultra special high quality product... really) Again, I am just curious.

Emperor's Grace
20-10-2008, 17:16
I'm with Osbad on this. I admit I can be a lazy gamer, and I have the disposable income so at $175 this was a steal. At $200 I could live with it. At $290, it became screw it.

I'm also in this category. At the original price, it was ... maybe. But at the new price ... NO.

Pokpoko
20-10-2008, 17:29
damnit.is it only me, or the TSS page is down?

Llew
20-10-2008, 18:24
damnit.is it only me, or the TSS page is down?

Try enabling cookies. It may just be some of your security settings that aren't letting you through to it.

For me, I get a page with no real text and a warning about needing to enable cookies, but it shows menus on the left. I can hit those and browse just fine.

Pokpoko
20-10-2008, 18:33
i have it on, and 8 times in 10 when i click something i get a lot of tech-lingo gibberish about errors and such.

Fist of Crimson
20-10-2008, 19:59
I made a table, not board, table not too long ago.

Six legs, 8' x 4' stands about 3' 6" tall for about $100
Bought a green flocked mat from a model train store for $25.

My carpentry skills are basic (this was my first project since high school woodwork) so if I can make one cheaply, anyone can.

Thanks to everyone who posted links to other companies products by the way. Interesting stuff.

GW are as nutty as squirrel poo if they think this is going to sell.

lanrak
20-10-2008, 21:50
Hi all.
This pricing insanity is proof GW has completly lost the plot.IMO.

A year on from WD 331s article for desert gaming board, (total cost less than 30 including additional legs...)

We put a lip round the outer edges of our gaming boards.(Our local FLGS club.)And fit 2 foot square foam terrain board on it.(The lip helps to holds the 6 terrain boards in place.)

TTFN
Lanrak.

Mad Dok Wotnot
20-10-2008, 22:16
Just out of curiosity is there anyone who thinks that they COULDN'T build their own board for cheaper?

If I had a kid who was into the hobby I would love spending time building a gaming table with them rather than buying some plastic premade stuff.

the GW pre-made board is actually pretty damn good. far superior to any of the other pre-mades out there. I've been making boards for on and off 10 years. on average it cocsts me 250+ to construct a "damn nice lookin' piece o' kit" so it depends. if you want a fairly generic flat board with just some scatter pieces like the imperial sector and some craters then yes you can get one cheaper. if you want a hard wearing durable, easily stored and better looking than the current offering the answer is no you can't build one cheaper.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 22:33
no you can't build one cheaper

Yes you can. No way does it cost you 250 to build a board like the GW one - what are you making it from? Gold?

Comrade Wraith
20-10-2008, 22:52
Yes you can. No way does it cost you 250 to build a board like the GW one - what are you making it from? Gold?

If it's a GW one he must be:D

Mad Dok Wotnot
20-10-2008, 22:54
in order to build a table that can take seriously heavy wear and tear you need more than just high impact polystyrene and 6x4 of plywood.

the GW board has prefromed hills (much larger than the modular one you can already buy btw - check the pics. the corner hills can be made into a hill large enough to accomodate the 4piece modular as a top)

It's a moulded table, hollow underneath so it stacks away nicely. it's lightweight so it can be transported. Damn i wish i could make a transportable board that a) didn't weigh a ton or b) fall apart when you sneeze on it from being som flimsy. ( a table that looks a lot better than just lobbing a green cloth over it at any rate)

Yes the price hike is a shot from nowhere, but it's still an incredibly good deal. I for one will be getting one.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 22:59
seriously heavy wear and tear

I want to move figures on it, not drive a car over it.


I for one will be getting one.

Well it's your money. Me, I like to have a place to live and food to eat.

Mad Dok Wotnot
20-10-2008, 23:05
I want to move figures on it, not drive a car over it.



good for you - I want to move mine to my mate's house.. or to my brother's house 50 miles away.. i want to do this without it chipping, flaking, crumbling or in some other way falling apart. I also want to be able to transport it by myself and not have to heft the weight of a wooden based table. I want it to also look better than a green cloth, 3 ork barricades and 2 plastic buildings on a flat sheet of ply or the floor. I want to be able to store it somewhere since i live in a 1 bed flat with my partner who does not share my boundless enthusiasm for leaving little plastic men in every corner of the house. while it is stored I don't want the afore mentioned chipping, flaking, breaking... and more importanly fropm flimsy wooden baords.. warping:)

Max Jet
20-10-2008, 23:05
the GW pre-made board is actually pretty damn good. far superior to any of the other pre-mades out there. I've been making boards for on and off 10 years. on average it cocsts me 250+ to construct a "damn nice lookin' piece o' kit" so it depends. if you want a fairly generic flat board with just some scatter pieces like the imperial sector and some craters then yes you can get one cheaper. if you want a hard wearing durable, easily stored and better looking than the current offering the answer is no you can't build one cheaper.

I don't know wether it is better than all the other ones. In my opinion almost all of the links look pretty good, especially the rubber mattes linked by Bregalad. WHY is the GW one better, than the other ones?

I have been building dioramas since I have been 10 years old. A complete 6 X 6 inch Diorama completely sculpted (large hills with track trails, bushes, rotten trees or even ruined walls) by myself cost me about 7 (of course excluding tanks and soldiers) Now keep in mind that it was completely finished! I bought three color pots (enough for about 8 Dioramas) and two trees for 30 cents a piece. The sand was from the woods and the sculpting material cost me 4 per Diorama. The Rest went for extras.
Now keep in mind this GW Thing is bare! It is just the surface... no colours flocking material... NOTHING!

I am currently building a 4 X 6 feet table with my buddy. 15 for the gypsum the foam was for free (buddy brought it from work) 12 for additional sculpting materials 20 for the wood.... thats it. Enough to build the surface.

Now flocking material and something cost extra (spend quite some money on clear resin and fock... even trees, plastic cards etc.) but the GW table doesn't include that or does it??

Templar Ben
20-10-2008, 23:06
Well perhaps we can discuss what is nice about his board so we can figure out what one can expect if trying to get the same functionality.

It is made of plastic meaning it is very light weight. If we are going to duplicate this is needs to be made of something light weight. Does anyone have a weight on this one?

It is sturdy. That means that is is superior to a vacuum formed terrain piece. It a sharp corner bangs into a piece while packing up or during transport it will not gouge like foam will.

It is very plain. This is an advantage as far as transport. If you are planning on covering this will flock and then shoving it in a bag to tote on the bus then that flock is not long for this board. With plenty of layers of different color paints it will look okay. I know because I have seen several GW hills that are painted that way in grassland, desert, and ash wastes themes.

The pieces are able to clip together. Not sure how valuable this feature is but I presume from the underside view there is a clip that will hold these together. That must be of some utility over most modular boards that are not able to do so.

So the question isn't really how cheap is a board since it is about twenty bucks. The question is how much would it cost one to make a board like GW's. There is a very narrow market for this board that must desire the above items greatly so that this is better than spending $50 to get two GW modular hills that gives you actually more versatility.

kaimarion
20-10-2008, 23:07
Yes the price hike is a shot from nowhere, but it's still an incredibly good deal. I for one will be getting one.


Ipod Touch or plastic gaming table hmmmmmmmmm....
Well that is a hard one :rolleyes: .

Darnok
20-10-2008, 23:09
if you want a hard wearing durable, easily stored and better looking than the current offering the answer is no you can't build one cheaper.

It is still only plastic. I don't know what wonders of colours you use, but heavy use makes every colour leave its base. And if you really need $300 to build a board (before flock and paint), then pity you.

Tooooon
20-10-2008, 23:10
in order to build a table that can take seriously heavy wear and tear you need more than just high impact polystyrene and 6x4 of plywood.

the GW board has prefromed hills (much larger than the modular one you can already buy btw - check the pics. the corner hills can be made into a hill large enough to accomodate the 4piece modular as a top)

It's a moulded table, hollow underneath so it stacks away nicely. it's lightweight so it can be transported. Damn i wish i could make a transportable board that a) didn't weigh a ton or b) fall apart when you sneeze on it from being som flimsy. ( a table that looks a lot better than just lobbing a green cloth over it at any rate)

Yes the price hike is a shot from nowhere, but it's still an incredibly good deal. I for one will be getting one.
Do you work for GW, or just like the fanboy ideology of blindingly giving positive comments for something which is clearly overpriced.

Actually im sorry, thats wrong of me to say your opinion is wrong, I myself simply dont agree with your opinion since it sounds like your very biased towards any constructive critisism explaining why 150 for something which still needs money and work on it when you get it REALLY isnt worth it.

Heck, I prefer a upside down dinner cloth with books underneith it for "hills" and some random objects as scenery than spending 150 (which as someone mentioned is as much as an xbox 360 for petes sake, or a 30" wide screen television) on something which isnt even ready out of the box and is simply used for moving my models on.

Besides, imagination is the best scenery tbh and scratch building gives a sense of achievement

Just my thoughts, take them in jest

Bob5000
20-10-2008, 23:10
While it would be difficult to make a board to the specifications of the GW one for the gamer in the street , who has not got access to plastic moulding equipment , he can make a pretty good one for a fraction of the cost of the GW one .

My gaming club has plenty of very hard wearing MDF painted boards and I have made a couple of boards for home use that cost me less than 20 quid each to make

The almost universal point on this thread being made is that many people say that they could just about justify 100 price tag , but not the 150 price , they see the quality and benefits of the board , , were about to buy it , and then are stopped in their tracks by the hike .

Focuses the mind that you dont really need it.. at that price

GotTofu
20-10-2008, 23:12
So people keep mentioning you can buy better or as good for cheaper. I've followed most of the links, and still have yet seen anything that can as easily fit my needs. I am looking for board for ash waste place buildings for cityscape, or icy ash waste that i can place building for cityscape style WH40k.

Not desert, definitly not green/brown grass almost fantasy or rural settings, and not a mat, or cheap modular terrain. IE looks likes someone got a couple pieces of styrofoam circles cut chunks out of them and paint the sides brownish to make them look like cliffs... (I can do that).

So far from the various listing ppl have posted they are no better than the quality i could create myself.

If anyone could suggest something of a higher quality it would be appriecated.

BTW I live in the US, and unfortunitly only speak/read english so i'm limited to english websites :p

Really wish I took foriegn language classes more seriousily back in school

Bregalad
20-10-2008, 23:21
in order to build a table that can take seriously heavy wear and tear you need more than just high impact polystyrene and 6x4 of plywood.

the GW board has prefromed hills (much larger than the modular one you can already buy btw - check the pics. the corner hills can be made into a hill large enough to accomodate the 4piece modular as a top)

It's a moulded table, hollow underneath so it stacks away nicely. it's lightweight so it can be transported. Damn i wish i could make a transportable board that a) didn't weigh a ton or b) fall apart when you sneeze on it from being som flimsy. ( a table that looks a lot better than just lobbing a green cloth over it at any rate)

Yes the price hike is a shot from nowhere, but it's still an incredibly good deal. I for one will be getting one.
We already stated that there are many alternatives for that for half or quarter the price, like from Ziterdes (6x4' for 125 Euro) or Zuzzy (for 52$). Gosh, even the Miniature Scenery City tiles now look affordable:
http://www.miniaturescenery.com/

And having fixed hills reduces the variety of possible battle grounds (at first you HAVE to have hills!).

Templar Ben
20-10-2008, 23:24
In time it took me to write my post there was some back and forth and it sounds like I captured everything but Mad Doc, if there is some other benefit that I did not list please post that as well.

Tooooon
20-10-2008, 23:25
http://www.warterrain.com/ might be a start, or simply searching on google "make 40k terrain cheap". Simple really :) (and check the links page of that site)

You said that you cant get a board such as the GW one which is what your looking for, but with making terrain you need to use your imagination and basic materials.

If you think that a plastic, unfinished board in parts is worth 150 and you cant use your brain on easier ways to use cheap materials to make terrain, then eh, your money

Madcap422
20-10-2008, 23:25
I agree with the absolute idiocy of the price rise. However, i am still going to purchase this board for 2 reasons.


a. I am heading off to college within the year, and would love to be able to have a lightweight, damn good looking board that i can store in a confined room.
b. I have given up purchasing miniatures until my entire collection is painted. As this will last me quite a while, i have decided to grace my painted soldiers with a table and terrain that do them justice.

In order to make one of the boards to the specifications I would need, it would require quite a lot of flimsy, easily dented foam. I don't want to risk having the whole table break when a corner knocks into a wall. And i have made a lot of boards working in a game store.

Also the game board is coming out right before the holiday season. For those of us who celebrate the holidays (myself not included), is it so far-fetched to consider the gift as a large communal present? After all, some of us already have an army, maybe not painted, but an army nonetheless. If you do, consider that the game board might be a very attractive prospective gift as opposed to the boxes of miniatures that you could receive that could languish in a cellar awaiting paint for an untold amount of time.

I would rather have a nice completed gameboard, then an army of unpainted possibly un assembled miniatures.

Mad Dok Wotnot
20-10-2008, 23:25
Templar Ben has put my thoughts on the table slightly more eloquently than me and sums up all the cool things I've found with the new table.

Kaimarion: Ipods suck get something by Zen;)

Darnok, I'll try and track down some of my boards that i've sold and get pictures. You'd be shocked at wht I can do for 250 (which is I will confess a LOT more than the GW board i was just listing my usual costage as a "if you want better it costs you more")

Toooooon: Sadly no, I like my highly paid non-retail, non-child orientated job thankyouverymuch. I just don't see it as overpriced. We were discussing at my local club recently that 100 was actually quite a steal considering the volume of plastic involved to make it. We reckon you get the same if not more plastic than the 100 imperial city. Yes it still needs money to work on it, but not that much. Get your airbrush out :) as for dinner cloths and book hills, it's different strokes for different folks. Me I can't abide that particular look of a gaming table.

Bob500: MDF does make cracking boards, but 6x4 of it weighs an absolute ton so transporting it when you don't drive is an absolute pain.


Yes you probably can make an equivalent static board for your house/garage/whatever, but the lightweight transportability of the GW wins out for me. Considering the only alternatives to something this lightweight either look naff, or are shoddily made.

IAMNOTHERE
20-10-2008, 23:27
I think the sum total of what everyone's trying to say is:

Yes it's a nice, quality piece of kit but the price is ridiculous.

Especailly for somthing that's nice to have rather than essential to the game. Most players already have somewhere to game with a table and some scenery. This could have taken them to the next level but with the price, instead its put them off.

Most people who say they could build a board for less are

1> Right
2> Unlikely ever to get around to it

At 100 you could justify it over some other stuff so those in category 2 would have gone for it. At 150, well that's almost the months shopping and MUCH harder to justify to the family.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 23:27
Well, look, no one is suggesting it's possible to get the exact same product with the exact same specifications for less money. If one sets as their requirements for this product a list of criteria that can only be met by the GW gaming board then I guess it's worth whatever money they're charging - if only the GW board can do what you want then I guess it's worth a potentially infinite amount of money to you, Mr. Fussy.

Actually, I don't think the product is that bad, per se. If someone bought it me, I might be quite pleased (although I'd have wished they'd bought me something much cooler for that amount of money) it's just not worth what they're asking for it, and that's especially true because you can make something comparable for a fraction of the cost. Not identical. Not fulfilling an arbitrary set of criteria (sorry, Mad Dok, I don't have a brother 50 miles away). Just the same basic thing.

Matthias Thulmann
20-10-2008, 23:32
Well 150 is quite alot to one person but I dont know about anyone else but if i was going to buy this i would at least split the cost 50/50 with a friend. It takes two to play a game you know!

Well 75 is worth it in my eyes if i dont have to go to B&Q and buy wood then fit it in my car in 2x4 boards then get it home and prepare it etc a total nightmare to store. GW one comes with a bag and is lightweight and easy to store due to the small size . Im afraid space and ease of use over comes cost in my eyes. But everyone is different.

I dont see why iff a group of 4 friends played together why they would not split the cost between them!

Darnok
20-10-2008, 23:33
Darnok, I'll try and track down some of my boards that i've sold and get pictures. You'd be shocked at wht I can do for 250

I wouldn't doubt that for a second. You'd be shocked what I could do with that amount of money. That is exactly the point: what GW wants me to pay for their product is enough to get a much better product.

Tooooon
20-10-2008, 23:34
Toooooon: Sadly no, I like my highly paid non-retail, non-child orientated job thankyouverymuch. I just don't see it as overpriced. We were discussing at my local club recently that 100 was actually quite a steal considering the volume of plastic involved to make it. We reckon you get the same if not more plastic than the 100 imperial city. Yes it still needs money to work on it, but not that much. Get your airbrush out :) as for dinner cloths and book hills, it's different strokes for different folks. Me I can't abide that particular look of a gaming table.
No idea where the relevance of non-child and non-retail work came into it, but alright lol

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2030140_99229999065_GamingBoard04_873x627.jpg

Looking at it, if I was to refer how much lets say, a squad of plastic space marines costs in comparrison to how much plastic you get for your money, I guess I could see how it would cost 150. But when I spend my 18 on a squad of Space Marines, I know that they are well made, good looking and sculpted models with a nice amount of detail on them.

But with the game board the detail could be argued to be extremely low, heck the top left part of the board is just a flat bit of plastic with two small wholes in the ground.

Im just saying I personally could make an effective, lightweight and easy to transport board using proper scenery (ignoring my reference to my good ole "quick and easy" table cloth method of scenery) and have it all done and ready without spending 150 easily.

And I agree it IS a lovely piece of kit, but the price is too costly for something that is very much optional.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 23:38
GW one comes with a bag.

Well that makes all the difference, clearly. I can see where the extra 50 came from if they give you a bag.

Templar Ben
20-10-2008, 23:38
Well is there an alternative that is modular, lightweight and durable?

I have seen a lot that are modular and lightweight but I know the ones I made are not terrible durable when being transported. I don't move mine around so it is not an issue for me. If I knew I was going to play in say three places I could build three tables for less as an example.

There may be something that fits that criteria. I don't know how durable the Ziterdes sections are for instance.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 23:40
How are people transporting their stuff? By the sounds of things and the damage that this transportation is expected to cause to wood and polystyrene it's tied to a bit of rope and dragged behind the car. You can put it in the boot or the back seat, you know.

Mad Dok Wotnot
20-10-2008, 23:43
if you drive or have access to a car, sure you can.

Thommy H
20-10-2008, 23:46
So you're going to take six 2'x2' plastic squares on the bus? How is that easier than sheets of mdf or polystyrene? It seems like it would be just as hard to transport this without a car as any of the alternatives and, conversely, just as easy with one. If you have transport issues, this board isn't going to solve them.

crandall87
20-10-2008, 23:50
I'm sure if online retailers can get their hands on them we could all get a nice 25% discount, which on 150 would be quite a big discount. I may still get one. Anyone know if it's perfectly smooth or whetehr it has any texture already applied?

Mad Dok Wotnot
20-10-2008, 23:51
Tommy, your sarcy comment about the bag aside, it seems to be rather useful if the whole table fits in it. And as i've already mantioned MDF weighs too much to be easily transportable and polystyrene gets knackered too easily.

Crandall, from what I here it's textured like the hills

Thommy H
21-10-2008, 00:01
It's only useful if you're mental enough to buy the thing in the first place.

Brimweave
21-10-2008, 00:09
It's only useful if you're mental enough to buy the thing in the first place.

Which nobody will. Its just easier to buy the 18 battlemat, place on table or even floor and just plop scenery down onto it. Alot, lot cheaper than all the options :D.

cailus
21-10-2008, 00:43
You know, if I had say US$100 billion earning an interest rate of say 150% a minute, I would still find this table to be a rip-off.

Save a gun to my head, there is no way in hell I'd spend US$290/150 punds/AUD$400 on this!

Horus38
21-10-2008, 01:37
...if you want a hard wearing durable, easily stored and better looking than the current offering the answer is no you can't build one cheaper.

That is a load of rubbish. I could build a fantastic looking board from scratch for less then $200 which is a far cry from the $300+ GW wants which doesn't include a painted/flocked surface or additional terrain.

Norsehawk
21-10-2008, 02:20
Several people have mentioned that it is plastic so it is light. Maybe they didn't see the gw page, the thing weighs 30 pounds. at that weight, and also having to carry an army around, I really don't see this as being very portable.

Another thing, it's set so that you only have 6 board pieces. sure you can arrange them in many different ways, but you are still going to be somewhat limited in options unless you are willing to have sheer straight up and down hillfaces pointing into the playing field.

I got my new White Dwarf in the mail, and as I was pulling off the plastic wrap a card popped out saying that due to an error on the price of the battle gameboard, in both the white dwarf and the gift guide, the price and ALL terrain suggestions are increased by $25, that was livable, but to then add an extra $90 onto that. That is just pricing yourself out of the market. That's groceries for 2-3 months. That's an xbox 360 and a game, That's an ipod, or a college class with books (at community college) That's almost half a month's rent. That's an army.

For the convenience factor, i would have paid $200, but even then, I could build something much more modular for much cheaper. With this new price, I'm going to build my own. I have a Lowes and a Home Depot nearby, as well as a model Train store where they know my name in there after a few tries.

-Grimgorironhide-
21-10-2008, 03:08
Honestly I don't even think GW know what they are doing anymore. How can they really expect the board to sell well at that price! Like so many before me have said it is much cheaper to make your own personal board.

This was how much mine cost. In australian $

2x4" by 8" ,2cm thick, smooth wood blocks. $50
2 Buckets of normal sand. $20
Paints. $40
Static Grass. $40
2 Forest sets. $80
4 Poly Hills. $25

Total: $255 compared to $400/$500 and its bigger,more versitile, Terrain covered, painted and textured.

Warboss Antoni
21-10-2008, 04:01
All the literal fanboys ( and I'm not one to use that term lightly ) in this thread really confounds me. I guess if GW sold platinum turds of JJ for $6 billion some one would defend it.

Templar Ben
21-10-2008, 04:21
Several people have mentioned that it is plastic so it is light. Maybe they didn't see the gw page, the thing weighs 30 pounds. at that weight, and also having to carry an army around, I really don't see this as being very portable.

That does give us a good basis for comparison. I will see how much a sheet of 4 by 6 MDF weighs. Is there a lower weight high strength alternative?

The_Patriot
21-10-2008, 04:44
That does give us a good basis for comparison. I will see how much a sheet of 4 by 6 MDF weighs. Is there a lower weight high strength alternative?

An 1/8"x4'x8' sheet of hardwood plywood weighs roughly 20lbs, so a 1/8"x4'x6' sheet would weigh roughly 15 lbs. The price for the 1/8"x4'x8' sheet would be $6.95 from Home Depot currently. That's a difference of $283.05 between the two. Add in the 3 furring strips, @ $.99 each, for protecting the edges the difference becomes $280.08. With that much money left over one could make a professional museum quality terrain set and still weigh less then the GW board.

LictorIntheGrass
21-10-2008, 04:51
Well that makes all the difference, clearly. I can see where the extra 50 came from if they give you a bag.

It's so when after you buy it and you feel disgusted with yourself:cries:, put it on you head and pull the strings tight:eek:.

orks2134
21-10-2008, 05:12
An 1/8"x4'x8' sheet of hardwood plywood weighs roughly 20lbs, so a 1/8"x4'x6' sheet would weigh roughly 15 lbs. The price for the 1/8"x4'x8' sheet would be $6.95 from Home Depot currently. That's a difference of $283.05 between the two. Add in the 3 furring strips, @ $.99 each, for protecting the edges the difference becomes $280.08. With that much money left over one could make a professional museum quality terrain set and still weigh less then the GW board.


1/8" plywood? I never build a table for less than 5/8" MDF. Which is heavy, but will last forever. $25.

Ikea legs, $10. Paint $10. Sand $5, for nice clean stuff. Table about $50 all in.

Having $250 to buy beer? Priceless.

The_Patriot
21-10-2008, 05:17
1/8" plywood? I never build a table for less than 5/8" MDF. Which is heavy, but will last forever. $25.

Ikea legs, $10. Paint $10. Sand $5, for nice clean stuff. Table about $50 all in.

Having $250 to buy beer? Priceless.

The advantage of plywood is its inherent strength over MDF due to the plys being able to hold more weight then the comparable MDF board of the same thickness.

Bob5000
21-10-2008, 08:28
Bottom line :
Q: Do you personally believe it is value for money ?

A) Yes - buy it
B) No - Dont buy it

EmperorNorton
21-10-2008, 08:52
Does anybody know how much plastic you can make from four barrels of oil?
As the GW board costs about the same as four barrels of oil, I'd like to know the correlation.

snurl
21-10-2008, 09:27
I just saw the photos of this thing in this month's white Dwarf.
It looks sexy, but IMHO it costs about twice as much as it's worth.
And you have to paint it too.:(

Avian
21-10-2008, 09:45
The last part is particularly surprising to me - if they aimed at the "lots of money, little time" segment of gamers I'd have thought they'd make the set be useable straight out of the box.

Llew
21-10-2008, 14:34
If you're looking for a light, relatively durable modular game board, you could probably beat that 30 lbs figure pretty well.

Assuming (that just like the GW product) you already have a table to play on, it should be pretty cheap. Take contractors foam, in 1", 2" or 3" sheets -- whatever you prefer. Cut it into 2'x2' sections. Get some peg board and cut it into 2'x2' sections. If you want, you could use pressboard (peg board without holes) and you could even cut notches in it that would let you link multiple sections together. (This is more trouble than it'd be worth to me, but you could.) Glue the foam on the pegboard, model it, coat it with Foam Coat. (Basically, plaster of paris with a little sand.)

If you went with the thickest, highest-density foam possible (for maximum sculpting relief and durability) and put on a heavy layer of the plaster, a 2'x2' section probably still wouldn't weigh 4 lbs and would be plenty durable for any but the most extreme use. (Frankly, my friends and I are all grown ups with large enough vehicles to transport things -- I wouldn't even bother with the plaster myself.)

I think last time I was at the local home store, 2" contractor foam in a 4'x8' sheet was about $30 or so. The pressboard is probably less than $10. A couple tubes of Liquid Nails could be had for about $10 or less. I can get a decent quality railroad grass mat (not the sawdust ones) for about $20-$25. And let's be wild and pretend that I'll have to use $40 worth of paints and misc. other stuff. Less than half the price for a functionally very, very similar product with more versatility. Oh...and 2 more sections to boot.

Scionscion
21-10-2008, 17:05
I have seen the GW Realm of Battle at Italian Games Day and it is pretty cool! In fact I was stood next to this guy who wanted to buy the sample they had - he pushed really hard to get them to sell it to him and ended up offering 500Euros before one of the Italian guys finally told him they couldn't sell their sample copy to him at any price!

The sample one was painted a sort of basic grey color scheme and still looked great. With a little bit of flocking or static grass it would look even better.

Templar Ben
21-10-2008, 17:51
If you're looking for a light, relatively durable modular game board, you could probably beat that 30 lbs figure pretty well.

Assuming (that just like the GW product) you already have a table to play on, it should be pretty cheap. Take contractors foam, in 1", 2" or 3" sheets -- whatever you prefer. Cut it into 2'x2' sections. Get some peg board and cut it into 2'x2' sections. If you want, you could use pressboard (peg board without holes) and you could even cut notches in it that would let you link multiple sections together. (This is more trouble than it'd be worth to me, but you could.) Glue the foam on the pegboard, model it, coat it with Foam Coat. (Basically, plaster of paris with a little sand.)

If you went with the thickest, highest-density foam possible (for maximum sculpting relief and durability) and put on a heavy layer of the plaster, a 2'x2' section probably still wouldn't weigh 4 lbs and would be plenty durable for any but the most extreme use. (Frankly, my friends and I are all grown ups with large enough vehicles to transport things -- I wouldn't even bother with the plaster myself.)

I think last time I was at the local home store, 2" contractor foam in a 4'x8' sheet was about $30 or so. The pressboard is probably less than $10. A couple tubes of Liquid Nails could be had for about $10 or less. I can get a decent quality railroad grass mat (not the sawdust ones) for about $20-$25. And let's be wild and pretend that I'll have to use $40 worth of paints and misc. other stuff. Less than half the price for a functionally very, very similar product with more versatility. Oh...and 2 more sections to boot.

Well we could see about that. It would be great to try to build one and see how it comes out. Perhaps after shaping the foam we could cover it in an epoxy/sand mix. It would cost more but it would give a shell that would prevent the foam from being gouged during transport. What do you think?

Llew
21-10-2008, 18:08
The epoxy/sand mix might add a little weight, and would make it a bit tougher for someone whose entire attraction to the GW board is spending less time modelling. But it would probably make it plenty durable. You certainly *could* break it if you wanted to, but all of our toys are that way.

I've been spending a lot of money lately (computer upgrades, new paint set soon, new copy of WoW) so I might have trouble talking my wife into letting me try this right away, but I'm sorely tempted. I've been building more and more multi-use terrain pieces for our table at home and this project is starting to get my attention. ;)

Ethlorien
21-10-2008, 18:25
Wow, it's nice. I wonder if I can pay in twelve easy installments, where they ship 1 section to me every two months? It'll take me that long per board section to paint up anyway, so I'd be all over that deal.

Norsehawk
21-10-2008, 20:44
well, I went to my local hardware store, walked around, and grabbed the stuff to make a board at home.
4x8 board of MDF, cut into 2x2 boards: $7
Styrofoam pack (they didn't have the blue stuff there that I saw) 6 bucks
Hot Glue gun: 5 bucks
Glue sticks: 4 bucks
Sand Paper: 4 bucks.

Total so far: 26 bucks. I plan on making one or two sections trenches. The great thing, I can always go to the store and grab more MDF, if I want rivers, bam, rivers, if I want roads, bam, mountains, no problemo. Cityfight? easy.

Commissar Bone
21-10-2008, 22:37
Hell, a few months ago, White Dwarf even had a "DIY Game Table!" article that proves to be massively cheaper than the GM-produced one.

Oops. Someone forgot to inform the editor.

Grimtuff
21-10-2008, 23:20
Does anybody know how much plastic you can make from four barrels of oil?
As the GW board costs about the same as four barrels of oil, I'd like to know the correlation.

Funnily enough the answer was in the Daily Express (a UK paper) a couple of Saturdays ago. I'll see if I can dig it out. ;)

Tooooon
21-10-2008, 23:44
Oops. Someone forgot to inform the editor.The monkey was too busy with his bannana when told

Imus
22-10-2008, 01:00
its quite funny because at 100 quid it was a bargin i think for any gamer, or people that do not have the time to make one. However 150 i think is too much.

In the uk building a basic board is fairly cheap.

6x4 sheet varies from 10 to 30 quid depending on where
1 bag of sharp sand is about 2 quid from homebase, you get more than enough.
1 black or white paint or colour is about 10 quid
brush - 4-5 quid
other paints - 5 - 6 quid.

Total about 60 quid an a hour build time, depending if you want to add support etc, even then it only adds a couple more quid. I built three boards for the GW i worked in and while i was recycling the main body of the board, it only cost about 50 odd quid to re do and edge two 6x4 boards.

Bob5000
22-10-2008, 08:32
its quite funny because at 100 quid it was a bargin i think for any gamer, or people that do not have the time to make one. However 150 i think is too much.



And this is where GW have shot themselves in the foot on this , as many other posters have reacted in the same way " 100 .. mmm just about affordable ....Whaa??? 150 ? .. no way ! "

Jedi152
22-10-2008, 08:46
I would hardly say 100 was a bargain. Any gamer with even a basic knowledge of woodwork can make their own for about 20.

It makes no difference to me. I wouldn't have paid 100, and i won't pay 150.

zedeyejoe
22-10-2008, 08:59
I have seen the GW Realm of Battle at Italian Games Day and it is pretty cool! In fact I was stood next to this guy who wanted to buy the sample they had - he pushed really hard to get them to sell it to him and ended up offering 500Euros before one of the Italian guys finally told him they couldn't sell their sample copy to him at any price!

OK, I have heard of a serious collector who wanders the Southern UK shows looking for painted armies. He offered to buy a tournament players army only to be told it was his only tournament army and he was not going to sell it. When offered 6,000 for it, his reply was 'Just let me finish this tournament, then its yours'. I should mention that this was for an ancient army where the figures cost a lot less than GW figures.

Mad Dok Wotnot
22-10-2008, 09:14
OK, I have heard of a serious collector who wanders the Southern UK shows looking for painted armies. He offered to buy a tournament players army only to be told it was his only tournament army and he was not going to sell it. When offered 6,000 for it, his reply was 'Just let me finish this tournament, then its yours'. I should mention that this was for an ancient army where the figures cost a lot less than GW figures.


wish I could bump into him at events ;)

dancingmonkey
22-10-2008, 11:26
just to add a little snippet I heard last night at club night.
Was chatting with some of my new gaming clubmates, most of whom are still GW staff I have learned.

The new table price came up (I was asking if they had planned to get any in for the club) and they mentioned HQ had stated the price rise was because no money would have been made on the 100 tag.

Due to the extremely limited numbers they are making the mould costs will not be absorbed fully for some time, thus forcing a massive jump.

Pesonally, I'm not sure about this at all. I think the price is rediculous, have zero interset in the product (all my boards get made from wooden battons and hardboard, a little pricey but oh so durable). Obviously this was staffer scuttlebutt, (not to disparage said people as they are a decent bunch and are more in the loop than I am these days). I wonder if this is just HQ propaganda to try to placate the rising tide of irritation this jump is causing...

Anyway, thought you might be interested...

regards.

Jon.

plantagenet
22-10-2008, 12:47
I cant see how the production costs and shipping costs on these are as high as a 100 pounds a unit.

I would be very surprised if they were more than 20 pounds per unit. As I said before the pricing strategy of 150 a unit is very disappointing.

Thommy H
22-10-2008, 13:18
no money would have been made on the 100 tag

No money's going to be made on the 150 tag either...

I mean, seriously, if the issue is that production costs are so high that they'll make zero profit on 100, then make it 101 or something, then you get something back and, because people might actually pay that price, you'll turn a profit. A 50% price increase is just automatic fail though - if there's that much give in what they're willing to sell something for then it just turns off customers right away.

Also, if you've made a product that can't make its cost back without a price hike like that, it's possible that the product isn't one you should release. Most companies presented with the realisation that a new product would have to be prohibitively expensive to make a profit would cut and run. Anything else is just the sunk cost fallacy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy )

sheck2
22-10-2008, 13:19
...they mentioned HQ had stated the price rise was because no money would have been made on the 100 tag.

Due to the extremely limited numbers they are making the mould costs will not be absorbed fully for some time, thus forcing a massive jump.


(Jon not directed at you but at GW's comment...assuming it is true...)

Humm...they did not 'know' this until after they had developed, produced, and marketed the product? Oh come on...from what many 'informed' posters have said on these boards - GW does a thorough product analysis (these may or may not be accurate, but they do them).

So their 'solution' to unexpected sunk costs is to raise the price ensuring fewer sales. That's a weird response. You would think they would attempt to sell more to cover the sunk costs not kill sales. Maybe package it in affordable quantities like a 4x4 or even individual tiles. You encentify potential buyers not shrink your market...

To me...if this is what they are being told..it is BS.

Until this fiasco, I thought GW was getting it act together. Now I am waiting to see what else they screw up.

Foolish Mortal
22-10-2008, 13:20
I've stayed away from commenting on this so far, as it's not a product I would ever want or need, but now I wish to jump aboard (no pun intended!!)

Dancingmonkey's post tallied with something I had been wondering. Did GW anticipate low sales, did some number crunching & realised they needed to jack up the price to cover costs & make a little something as well?

Or are GW really so arrogant & so out of touch that they believe they can really charge what they like & people will still flock to buy it? If this is the case, then I really feel they are in for a shock.

Llew
22-10-2008, 13:34
My suspicion is that they want to recoup the cost of the molds too quickly. If they were expecting a really, really small batch of sales, then plastic probably wasn't the best way to go with this. (They seem to be able to do their foam terrain pieces inexpensively. They could have looked at someway of making that technology work and be more durable.)

At $290, it's too high to be most gamers' "special" purchase -- it'll have to crowd out other GW spending. That will be enough to drive the total sales down even lower. At $200 I'd be hard-pressed to consider it a good deal. At $150, it'd look reasonable enough as a special purchase. At $125 I'd be hard-pressed *not* to pick it up.

GW has already spent the money on the molds -- that's gone. They need to focus on movng as many of these as possible and not focus on trying to recoup the mold cost on each sale. Their best chance of eventually making money on it is to sell as many as humanly possible, and at $290, that just won't happen.

Chaos and Evil
22-10-2008, 13:34
I cant see how the production costs and shipping costs on these are as high as a 100 pounds a unit.

I would be very surprised if they were more than 20 pounds per unit. As I said before the pricing strategy of 150 a unit is very disappointing.

He's not saying that production costs are that high.

What he's saying is that at 100, it'd take GW (let's say) 6 months to make back their initial investment and start to turn a profit, wheras at 150 it'll take them (Let's say) only 4 months to make back their initial investment.

This is all assuming the GW marketting dept. have done their sums properly. :)




Did GW anticipate low sales, did some number crunching & realised they needed to jack up the price to cover costs & make a little something as well?

I suspect that GW decided that this product would not sell (In sufficient numbers) to individuals.

Therefore they priced it at a level which only makes sense for groups to club together and buy.

Thommy H
22-10-2008, 13:48
Or are GW really so arrogant & so out of touch that they believe they can really charge what they like & people will still flock to buy it?

Yes, they are.

A proviso: I'm not usually anti-GW around here. I tend to skew my opinions slightly to go against the prevailing environment: around here, I'm usually a GW defender, but in other places I'll attack them. My views lie between the two extremes. This is just so nobody dismisses my opinions as meaningless GW-bashing.

Anyway, it's my belief from other things I've heard and trends I've observed that GW lives in its own weird little bubble. Everyone in the studio is fanatically devoted to the company and its products. Everyone who works in the stores is taught to promote certain ideas and espouse certain opinions - they're defensive because it's a "geek" hobby, so there tends to be an unusually comprehensive amount of devotion to GW amongst its employees. I think we all went through a phase when we were younger when Warhammer was our main interest: it was the latest, for most of us, in a long line of obsessions. This is the nature both of childhood and geekdom. For a few years, I expect, GW was our lives. I know when I was younger that was the case, but you grow out of it. Some of you may have kept the hobby on the back burner until you were ready to embrace it again, others (like me) dropped it altogether and came back years later as an older, wiser person. Either way though, you never get back to that feverish, child-like obsession. There are other, more important, things in your life now.

To work for GW is to never grow out of the obsessive stage. You remain so interested in the figures, the background, the rules, that it becomes the most important thing in your life - after all, it's your job now. You live, eat and breathe it. Your spare money goes on toys and books with "Warhammer" in the title and you preach the word of GW wherever you go.

These are the people that populate the studio. The guys who design the products and, yes, the executives who price them, are surrounded by people who love Warhammer and spend all their money on it. By people who are so obsessed with their hobby that they got a job involving it. That is not normal customer behaviour - most of us would not want a job that required us to play games and paint figures because that level of devotion to one aspect of our lives is not healthy. We do that kind of thing to relax, not to make money.

So GW believes that its customers are as rabid for everything and anything they produce as the totally skewed demographic of customers they're surrounded by. I've seen it in articles and statements by GW employees: "Warhammer is a luxury item that people will pay for regardless of the cost". That's not an exact quote, but it's the gist of it. It's why they think they can just charge whatever: because, as far as they're concerned, gamers will need this thing for their armies. It's why sometimes models that are better in the game cost more money (Inquisitors for 10? I don't care how high their WS is, you sell similarly sized and posed figures that aren't HQ choices for less...) and why a 50% price hike doesn't seem at all unreasonable.

It's pretty poor business practice. You can't just assume fanatical brand loyalty from your customers.

dancingmonkey
22-10-2008, 13:52
He's not saying that production costs are that high.

What he's saying is that at 100, it'd take GW (let's say) 6 months to make back their initial investment and start to turn a profit, wheras at 150 it'll take them (Let's say) only 4 months to make back their initial investment.

This is all assuming the GW marketting dept. have done their sums properly. :)





I suspect that GW decided that this product would not sell (In sufficient numbers) to individuals.

Therefore they priced it at a level which only makes sense for groups to club together and buy.

Cheers Ben... what he said! Far more concise and to the point than I would have ever got round too. I think we are going to see a small amount of these, as its quite a gamble, akin to the master brush set. Sadly, to provide a price we would all be willing to pay, GW would have to sell a lot to recoup the mould cost. Which it seems they are not going ot based on opinion around here (justifiable opinion IMHO, I'm in no way defending GW and their behaviour here! Trust me, I'm PP all the way these days :))

Tagis
22-10-2008, 13:54
After eleven pages I think we can agree to classify this as a prime contender for Games Workshop completely messing up a product launch. A nice product that originally had a lot of customer appreciation for it - and then the launch was totally ruined by the storm over a 50% price increase just before it was due out. A shame really, as I can see how this would have led to individual speciality tiles for different races six months down the line.

Foolish Mortal
22-10-2008, 14:20
Perhaps after 6 months it will have been, ahem 'eaten by the tyranids'.

Templar Ben
22-10-2008, 14:34
I cant see how the production costs and shipping costs on these are as high as a 100 pounds a unit.

I would be very surprised if they were more than 20 pounds per unit. As I said before the pricing strategy of 150 a unit is very disappointing.

Well they must make 6 very large molds to cast these. Each mold is very expensive and that fixed cost is spread over each unit. If it were a total of $100K then if they only make 100 sets it is $1000 per set but if they make 10K sets it is only $10 each. Large production runs are great for plastics.


just to add a little snippet I heard last night at club night.
Was chatting with some of my new gaming clubmates, most of whom are still GW staff I have learned.

The new table price came up (I was asking if they had planned to get any in for the club) and they mentioned HQ had stated the price rise was because no money would have been made on the 100 tag.

Due to the extremely limited numbers they are making the mould costs will not be absorbed fully for some time, thus forcing a massive jump.

Pesonally, I'm not sure about this at all. I think the price is rediculous, have zero interset in the product (all my boards get made from wooden battons and hardboard, a little pricey but oh so durable). Obviously this was staffer scuttlebutt, (not to disparage said people as they are a decent bunch and are more in the loop than I am these days). I wonder if this is just HQ propaganda to try to placate the rising tide of irritation this jump is causing...

Anyway, thought you might be interested...

regards.

Jon.

If the price goes up 50% and the number of units sold decreases by less than 33% then they will make more money (all other things being equal).

Brushmonkey
22-10-2008, 15:22
Oh. Nuts.

Our club was looking to buy 10 of those for the princely sum of 750.00.

Now it will cost 1125.00

We're not buying them any more...

Jog on GW, jog on.

SolarHammer
22-10-2008, 19:30
Only an idiot would pay so much for so little.

Llew
22-10-2008, 19:40
Never has a company asked for so much for so little to sell so few.

Warhound of Lustria
22-10-2008, 20:28
A battle mat and some MDF for me please ;)

Bregalad
22-10-2008, 20:37
1.) The price rise is certainly due to the higher metal prices ;)
2.) The marketing dept. didn't skrew up,because GW doesn't believe in marketing at all (common rumour says, GW has no marketing dept., I believe they use a d6 instead with 5 sides "prices up" and one side "fire staff").

Aurellis
22-10-2008, 20:51
(common rumour says, GW has no marketing dept., I believe they use a d6 instead with 5 sides "prices up" and one side "fire staff").

Haha, brilliant stuff Bregalad. I wouldn't be totally surprised if that was true!
For 20% of the price of the board I made my own board and bought a battlemat, it's the poor people who can't see past GW's marketing that I feel bad for :(

Batwings
22-10-2008, 20:56
I think perhaps a shrewder move from GW might have been to have sucked up the 'loss', released the board at the original price and counted on those who bought it to subsequently splurge on a whole bunch of new scenery to complement it.

I'd certainly been gathering a ton of new terrain pieces (including some Forge World bits) in anticipation of having a cool-looking, versatile and robust board to place them on.

I was also looking forward to the rumored additional tiles that would really add variety and flavor to the set.

mweaver
22-10-2008, 21:01
I like the versatility, but not that much...

Templar Ben
22-10-2008, 22:17
I was thinking about something. One could make a modular board much like this one out of foam. Then cover each of the sections with silicone and use that to cast resin shells. It would only need to be about 4mm thick to be rather sturdy and you could reinforce it with MDF or plywood ribs cut to fit. Put a metal rim on the edge before the resin hardens and clips could hold the pieces together. You are looking at much less than 5 pounds per section and the unit cost would be rather low after you start producing it for friends or interested parties on the internet.

Coasty
22-10-2008, 22:26
I'm still sorely tempted to buy it. I feel like the woman in that weird Leerdammer advert.

silverstu
22-10-2008, 22:46
I'm still sorely tempted to buy it. I feel like the woman in that weird Leerdammer advert.

Oh I'd love one- that's why I'm annoyed- the price jump just took it well out of my range- Great product :)-BAD price.:mad:

Slaaaaaanesh
22-10-2008, 23:27
I'm pretty much going to make my owh now that this is so expensive! 6 2x2 foot boards are not that difficult to buy/make and then the hills will match those of the battleboards. I estimate the total cost to make it up to the unpainted state that GW sell at ... 20-30? Bargain!

Aurellis
23-10-2008, 00:01
I'm pretty much going to make my owh now that this is so expensive! 6 2x2 foot boards are not that difficult to buy/make and then the hills will match those of the battleboards. I estimate the total cost to make it up to the unpainted state that GW sell at ... 20-30? Bargain!

It'll probably be cheaper than that, it cost me 16 for 2 3x4 sheets of mdf and 18 for the GW battlemat. That's 34! :D

It's amazing how much demand GW have created and pushed away. The local timber mills will be loving it

Killgore
23-10-2008, 00:09
hmm i wonder if they shelfed the battle board idea before the development stage we could all be playing with plastic Thunderhawks by now?

Nephilim of Sin
23-10-2008, 05:10
Man, I just saw the pics in the WD, and that thing is lovely. I am even more disappointed by this idiocy now.

And they have the nerve to offer a free cardboard box painted up to look like an ammo crate for orders over $350.... admitting it is just a crappy cardboard box. Do they not even try anymore? What happened to the hand-painted banners with the army deals? What happened to actual incentive to buy a heavily-priced product? Now I am depressed.....

Suspicions
23-10-2008, 06:10
The ammo crate is a free add-on...complaining about getting anything for free is simply asinine. It doesn't matter if it's crap or not...it's free crap!

The Board itself is truly lovely, I actually got to see and hold the unpainted product myself. It certainly does have some heft and is in no way, shape or form, flimsy or weak. The ribbing on the undercarriage is laid out as a pretty dense grid ( vertical and horizontal lines overlapping to make a box-crate type grid) and I'm confident that it's something you could rely on to never break or crack.

It's a bit too up there for my wallet right now, but if the price comes down, I'll definitely pick one up. I may just save and then splurge my xmas cash on it instead. It really is that solid of a product.

Nephilim of Sin
23-10-2008, 07:01
The ammo crate is a free add-on...complaining about getting anything for free is simply asinine. It doesn't matter if it's crap or not...it's free crap!

The ammo crate, albeit free 'crap', is with a $350 order, which I only saw in my $8.00 magazine (and seriously, when did the prices for WD go up that high? Did I miss something, or am I blind).

Calling it 'asinine' is completely missing the point of my post along many posts, and quite frankly ridiculous. The point is that up until recently, GW has completely lost that 'hobby' and 'gamer' feel to it, and has been just another bland company producing some decent looking minis. Suddenly, we had an in-flux of reasonably priced add-ons to the hobby, be it with the building sets, the hobby counters, the basing kits, foundation paints/ washes, whatever.

Then, when they finally release something that every wargamer could be interested in, they raise the price twice due to a 'misprint'. I defended to the death the table. I will be damned if I ever buy one now. The comment I was making was referring to this:

I remember when not only were the minis nice, but there was an incentive to buying larger purchases. For a company that is in dire straights, you would think they would actually continue these incentives. Before, there were discounts, free models, limited edition models, limited edition banners, army lists written on parchment, and the list goes on. And even still, when the price was incredibly high, they tacked on more 'crap' to get you to buy it in one go. We had skullz to buy up all their useless crap, minis that wouldn't sell, or to clear their storage space. Even then that was at a discount.

So yes, I find it incredibly insulting to get a free cardboard box which they already admit is crap with a $350 purchase, considering this great new innovation has already gone through two price hikes. I should already have both a gaming table and a free cardboard box with all of the money I have sunk into this company, as well as many pf my fellow Warseers. I'm sorry, I just cannot see the reasoning behind being content with getting a free cardboard box when I am already paying an extra $115 dollars on top of a price that was already very heavy.

Hulkster
23-10-2008, 07:34
The cardboard box thing is more for xmas sales

the fact that they admit its crap, is a good thing imho it means no one will spend to get it unless they really really want it

i cannot believe you are whinging that you spent some momeny on something now you want better free stuff, doesn't that sound silly to you

any way i am with the general consensus, i was going to get one but the priced it out of my price range

their loss

spud75
23-10-2008, 11:00
OK, as one of the first posters on this thread, I think we can all agree that at 100 the battleboard was expensive BUT came under the one off / Christmas type deals. My wife was getting me one for Xmas to reduce the amount of space my current board takes in the garage, she thought it was great. I need somewhere to play with my 12 3000+pt armies that doesn't take over my home. I won't, however much I want one, spend 150 on a gameboard.

We also seem to agree that a 50% price hike was and is inexcusable even for GW:wtf:(at 110 I probably would have still got one).

So, I propose a solution for GW.:cool:

You have created a superb piece of hobbyware, unfortunately you killed it with the price hike. Take the hit and reduce it back to 100 and then also sell individual and new tiles(trenches etc) for 30 or more depending on cost. I would love a large selection of these tiles for both 40K and fantasy, and I sometimes like to play without hills!

Also, realise that we are increasing becoming price INelastic due to rising costs of feeding/housing families etc.

Mini rant over.

logan054
23-10-2008, 11:04
i cannot believe you are whinging that you spent some momeny on something now you want better free stuff, doesn't that sound silly to you

Sadly i know what he means, i remember when GW actually wanted my money, when they put the effort in to make me want to spend more than 20 at a time, i remember a time when i could phone up mail order and say right i have x amount to spend on a army what kinda deal could i get, remember one time i got a 5 trolls for free and a few packs of banners.


You see hes not really whinning hes just spoiled by the memories of a different GW, one that didnt require selling of organs to afford newest and latest products.



You have created a superb piece of hobbyware, unfortunately you killed it with the price hike. Take the hit and reduce it back to 100 and then also sell individual and new tiles(trenches etc) for 30 or more depending on cost. I would love a large selection of these tiles for both 40K and fantasy, and I sometimes like to play without hills!

you realize thats still nearlt the price of a landraider just for a tile.....

Hulkster
23-10-2008, 11:47
i remember those days as well, and i miss them.

but you cannot seriously whine and/or complain that the free stuff you get now isnt as good as it used to be, that makes no sense

anyway this is starting to get off topic so i think it is best that we nip it in the bud and agree to disagree

back to the table, spud, my wife was going to do the same thing, but now the price is just silly

sheck2
23-10-2008, 12:34
The ammo crate, albeit free 'crap', is with a $350 order, which I only saw in my $8.00 magazine (and seriously, when did the prices for WD go up that high? Did I miss something, or am I blind).

Calling it 'asinine' is completely missing the point of my post along many posts, and quite frankly ridiculous. The point is that up until recently, GW has completely lost that 'hobby' and 'gamer' feel to it, and has been just another bland company producing some decent looking minis. Suddenly, we had an in-flux of reasonably priced add-ons to the hobby, be it with the building sets, the hobby counters, the basing kits, foundation paints/ washes, whatever.

Then, when they finally release something that every wargamer could be interested in, they raise the price twice due to a 'misprint'. I defended to the death the table. I will be damned if I ever buy one now. The comment I was making was referring to this:

I remember when not only were the minis nice, but there was an incentive to buying larger purchases. For a company that is in dire straights, you would think they would actually continue these incentives. Before, there were discounts, free models, limited edition models, limited edition banners, army lists written on parchment, and the list goes on. And even still, when the price was incredibly high, they tacked on more 'crap' to get you to buy it in one go. We had skullz to buy up all their useless crap, minis that wouldn't sell, or to clear their storage space. Even then that was at a discount.

So yes, I find it incredibly insulting to get a free cardboard box which they already admit is crap with a $350 purchase, considering this great new innovation has already gone through two price hikes. I should already have both a gaming table and a free cardboard box with all of the money I have sunk into this company, as well as many pf my fellow Warseers. I'm sorry, I just cannot see the reasoning behind being content with getting a free cardboard box when I am already paying an extra $115 dollars on top of a price that was already very heavy.

Well said.

sheck2
23-10-2008, 12:44
the fact that they admit its crap, is a good thing imho it means no one will spend to get it unless they really really want it

i cannot believe you are whinging that you spent some momeny on something now you want better free stuff, doesn't that sound silly to you


I do not understand how people can defend GW doing this?

It's contemptuos to us (the customers). This is not some off-hand comment by someone taken out of context - they spent money on marketing and advertising this. This was planned and discussed...it is purposeful and deliberate.

Its like BMW saying buy our new 5-series and if you spend another $1000 on after-market accessories we'll throw in an air-fresher with our logo on it to hang from your rear-view mirror. The person proposing that would be fired.

Yes - it has little economic value but shows a lack of respect adn customer value.

We are the customers. Do they value us? They they think we are worth something? Their actions indicate how they feel...

Do they think we are so stupid that throwing something so meanlingless and worthless at us AS AN INCENTIVE AND BONUS is appropriate?

They had been doing such a good job lately. And now this.

Thommy H
23-10-2008, 12:50
You have created a superb piece of hobbyware, unfortunately you killed it with the price hike. Take the hit and reduce it back to 100 and then also sell individual and new tiles(trenches etc) for 30 or more depending on cost. I would love a large selection of these tiles for both 40K and fantasy, and I sometimes like to play without hills!

Also, realise that we are increasing becoming price INelastic due to rising costs of feeding/housing families etc.

Mini rant over.

See, this would be nice. Others have mentioned selling it as a loss leader and relying on supplemental terrain/board pieces to recoup costs. That would be pretty cool - it's supposed to be modular, isn't it? You know, one terrain item GW never seems to have made (and I may be wrong about this) is rivers. If they released the basic board at an sensible cost and then supplemented it with some river tiles, I think that'd be great. God, you could do all sorts of stuff: a castle tile (the foundations would be moulded on with the walls as separate parts so you could make a full castle, or one that's partially ruined, or just the remains of one on the ground), costal tiles (towering cliffs and sea anyone?), actual mountains.

It could be an amazing product, but none of these things will happen if it doesn't sell, which it won't at 150, so the whole idea is just a total waste of time. There's literally no limit to what you could do with a truly modular piece of kit, but if it dies on its **** in the first month then it'll just be a total failure.

JackBurton01
23-10-2008, 15:05
I think its a great product and I love the idea of river tiles. That said it is way too expensive for me to ever think about buying.

EmperorNorton
23-10-2008, 16:16
The owner of my FLGS told me that he thought about getting one for the store. I'll have to ask how he thinks about that now.

Follow-up on this:
I asked and it looks like the store will still get one of these tables, which is very nice as we'll also be starting a Warbands campaign and a regular Fantasy campaign.

I'm looking forward to lots and lots of installments of "This table is kinda nice, how much does it cost?"

spud75
23-10-2008, 17:44
you realize thats still nearlt the price of a landraider just for a tile.....


Yes, but i'll use it more than the Land Raiders I've got!

It is a lot a plastic and there is no waste due to sprues!

Huw_Dawson
23-10-2008, 19:52
Idea of fully plastic table, with moulded terrain. Good.

Idea of spending hundreds of pounts on fully plastic table, with moulded terrain. Bad.

The table serves no useful point to 90% of gamers from the off - I look around and see people playing on home-made tables or the floor. The other 10% would want it as it looks cool, or would be great to play on - which it would be - but will be entirely put off by the price. I have no doubt that this is a fantastic product, and will be great for stores, rich clubs and tournaments to use. But that is a very small market.

I can't see this being a product that any private individual would buy. But maybe GW didn't aim it at the common joe? I don't know.

- Huw

Osbad
23-10-2008, 20:15
Follow-up on this:
I asked and it looks like the store will still get one of these tables.

Which makes sense. For anyone paying wholesale rather than retail, it is a justifiable level of expenditure. Particularly for clubs and stores where time to make things and durablity are precious commodities - more so han domestic gamers.

lanrak
23-10-2008, 20:23
Hi Huw.
Apart from the starter boxes, AoBR, BfSP, do GW aim anything at the 'ordinary Joe' anymore?


TTFN
Lanrak.

Skaven13
23-10-2008, 22:59
Well, here we are complaining to ourselves. Again.
But who is complaining to GW?

Personally, I really do think this price is %#$#ing rediculous, BUT what I would be curious to see is
A: How much did it cost for them to produce one of these? How much profit do they stand to really make?
If they NEEDED to raise the price THIS high just to make an even slight return, then to me that is really bad business.
B: How many people are going to buy it? I would love to see some numbers when all is said and done.
I mean, yes, pretty pictures and all, but they have yet to release enough info to justify WHY I should pay this insane price for a plastic table. One poster that got to see these boards said they were pretty sturdy, with a grid on the bottom making them really, well, sturdy. See, GW didn't even mention THAT about the boards. Is there anything ELSE we don't know to help reinforce the idea of paying $kidney for a gameboard?
Is there any way we can find out how much it cost, roughly, for GW to make these? Because if this IS just an insane price hike, we really need to do something other than cry to eachother. Complain. Bombard the company with letters, phonecalls, and emails. Something. It IS a nice board...but OWCH.
Truth be told, I could make one just as decent. Truth also be told, I am married and time is at a premium, yet I am not willing to shell out a couple hundred JUST for a convenience item.

Temprus
23-10-2008, 23:10
Oops. Someone forgot to inform the editor.
They never should have fired The White Dwarf, he would have remembered approving that article! :angel:

Crazy Harborc
24-10-2008, 02:17
243 posts before this one. Almost all of the statements about buying the board are negative.....to high of a price.

It IS easy to fix......GW can say opps, we goofed. The price will be reduced to........... Indie stores who have already taken delivery of the boards at the price of $350(USD) will be credited for the diffrence in the higher SRP and the new lower price.

End of problem;).........Hey I can have a fantasy can't I:angel:

Luthor
24-10-2008, 03:27
Gentlemen, we must first educate ourselves about the nature of the "new" Games-Workshop. There is no such thing as "the hobby," it is merely "the business." Now a fine line has existed between the two for the past 20 years of GW's existence, but sadly the line has become increasingly blurred. The business portion is starting to spill over into the hobby section.

Warning sirens should have been going off at this point, but as you know we all followed them blindly like a cat after a mouse. The time has passed to stop this madness that we now call "price hikes," we are now putty in Games-Workshop's hands. They are playing us innocents like a violin, but what do we do? We stay, not because we like what thier doing, but because we have no where else to go. Games-Workshop knows this, and have learned how to use this to thier advantage. They snap, we bend over. Fact.

For right now use hobbyist and gamers are like Jimmi Hendrix's guitar, we serve our usefulness and then are smashed to bits and thrown to the side.

End rant that sounds stupid.

Bob5000
24-10-2008, 08:29
We have plenty of other places to go - and GW know it . It depends on how many people 'take a hike'

parus_ater
24-10-2008, 09:39
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=11100003

TBH, they do this sort of thing all the time, I honestly think that they didn't put the price up, they just got it wrong in the literature. I've seen things go down as well as up.

silverstu
24-10-2008, 10:07
I think the only thing a business will take notice of is lack of sales. I suspect that they planned this to be fairly popular- why else make it in plastic? Isn't that how they recover the high cost of the moulds- by selling high volumes[over time]. On any discussion on the price of plastic kits what was always stated was that the highest cost isn't the plastic- it's the moulds. A fixed cost- so this would drop per unit as the volume rose- i.e the more they shift the more profitable each one becomes. BUT if they don't sell too many- the costs remain high. It is possible that if they reduced the price the product may become more profitable if the volume sold is high enough. therefore a price cut wouldn't necessarily make the board a loss leader- it would become profitable as the volume of sales increases.
If this is a niche product for stores/clubs/rich gamers then the price will remain were it is- if it was targeted at the broader gaming market we can hope for a price reduction[note i said hope and not expect].

I for one am hoping they do reduce the price to make it more accessible to the average joe gamer and it could be i the GW businesses best interest to do so- broader revenue stream plus the potential additional income from supporting products[expansion packs etc]. Here's hoping.

Norsehawk
24-10-2008, 10:59
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=11100003

TBH, they do this sort of thing all the time, I honestly think that they didn't put the price up, they just got it wrong in the literature. I've seen things go down as well as up.

Well, I can acknowledge a misprinting of the board's price in printed material.

GW acknowledged that they misprinted the price in both the White Dwarf and gift guide. When I opened the newest edition of WD, a card fell out that stated the misprinting and that the correct price was $200usd. That's all well and good and wasn't that much of a problem.

The problem arose when they added an extra $90 to the price on top of the price, nearly increasing the price by 50% in one fell swoop.

So, by your reasoning, they did a misprint, and fixed by printing new cards, then somehow misprinted the cards and nearly raised the price by an extra 50%. That just doesn't wash with me.

TearInTheRain
24-10-2008, 11:27
Maybe it is all cunning marketing on the part of GW:

"leak" a price that is reasonable to get peeps attention
Jack the price up to create outrage and therefore more intrest and discussion
state that the price rise was a mistake drop it down to the original price and suddenly everyone is a lot more interested in the original price and the bargain that it represents.

But I have worked for GW in the past and know that they are not that organised.....

blongbling
24-10-2008, 11:55
But I have worked for GW in the past and know that they are not that organised.....

very true @P